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Thread: Now I'm getting serious....

  1. #361
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    George,
    I'm glad you are back on the road of restoration. After just talking with you, I was shocked to hear that the red gelcoat had doubled in price - ouch!! Bill

    1971 Donzi 18' 2+3
    1985 Eliminator 23' Daytona Offshore - Kevlar hull
    1988 23' Donzi CC F-23 with 250HP EFI Mercury OB
    1989 28' Team Warlock Offshore - single 548CID/600HP
    1990 23' Warlock Offshore - single 525HP
    Bill from Denison, TX - Lake Texoma

  2. #362
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    George Great to hear your finally going to get some gel back on her. I can't wait to see her regelled.

    SAM
    '89' 23R-DL
    '460' KING COBRA
    If it isen't fast it isen't worth it!!
    SPEED CHANGES YOU!

  3. #363
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    Got some gel on the bottom today. Had to move faster than I had planned because it's supposed to get cold and wet tomorrow.
    I'm going to gel the bottom in two stages because there's a lot of raw glass where I repaired it and where I sanded completely through the old gel. When gel is sprayed on the raw 'glass, it creates a lot of pinholes in the fresh gel. To overcome the pinholes, I had to be kind of brutal w/the process. So, the first coat isn't pretty. Come Monday, I'll start sanding it flat. After that's accomplished, I'll spray a second coat to assure myself there's plenty of gel on the hull.
    Pics to follow........

    Of course, if anyone knows how to overcome the "fresh gel/raw glass" problem, I'd like to know.....
    It sure would save a lot of time.
    George Carter
    Central Florida
    gcarter763@aol.com
    http://kineticocentralfl.com/


    “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid"
    Professor Ian Plimer, Adilaide and Melbourne Universities

  4. #364
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    Got some goodies today.....
    First, I bought a closed cooling system from Monitor Products. It is a full bypass system w/the engine thermostat located w/in the HE plumbing. This allows the engine coolant to fully circulate until it reaches the thermostat opening temperature. Big Griz turned me on to this system and he has one in his SC BBC powered Criterion.
    Also, I bought another Meziere remote mount electric coolant circulating pump. This series pumps 55 GPM and has a life expectancy of 3000 hours. It will be located in the proximity of the HE and completely off the engine.



    Here's a picture of the fresh gel on the hull bottom. Not a good picture, but this is just a starting point. Lots of work to do yet.

    George Carter
    Central Florida
    gcarter763@aol.com
    http://kineticocentralfl.com/


    “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid"
    Professor Ian Plimer, Adilaide and Melbourne Universities

  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcarter View Post
    Got some gel on the bottom today. Had to move faster than I had planned because it's supposed to get cold and wet tomorrow.
    I'm going to gel the bottom in two stages because there's a lot of raw glass where I repaired it and where I sanded completely through the old gel. When gel is sprayed on the raw 'glass, it creates a lot of pinholes in the fresh gel. To overcome the pinholes, I had to be kind of brutal w/the process. So, the first coat isn't pretty. Come Monday, I'll start sanding it flat. After that's accomplished, I'll spray a second coat to assure myself there's plenty of gel on the hull.
    Pics to follow........

    Of course, if anyone knows how to overcome the "fresh gel/raw glass" problem, I'd like to know.....
    It sure would save a lot of time.
    Mr. C .... Google Duratec's vinylester primer and the other Duratec related products. M

  6. #366
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    At the risk of side-tracking this thread, George please give me some reasons why you go electric water pump.

    In my opinion:
    1. Electric is no more reliable than the mechanical (maybe less so)
    2. Higher Price
    3. Negligible (perhaps unmeasurable) HP increase

    I know I'm right on #2 but what about #1 and #3?

  7. #367
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    As for the durability, That is still waiting for the jury to com in. The problem is mechanical pumps vary because of use. In a closed system they last twice as long generally speaking. The new electric pumps are said to be as long living, but I don't know for sure. The benefit of the electric is constant flow and the fact they do not cavitae on acceleration and deceleration. As for power in a boat application it will be small and could not be seen by just removing it. On my engine, the closed system and a crossever, on the dyno, made no difference. However the closed system did enhance the economy, maybe even speed but there is no way to tell because I did not do side by side test in the real world. The closed system did do well on the dyno, but not by much as power goes but showed a measurable smaller fuel usage per RPMs and load.
    Randy owner of Donzis since 1966
    High Performance props 3, 4, and 5 blade. Turbo and Stainless Steel props. Props for old Volvo drives.
    The reason congressmen try so hard to get re-elected is that they would hate to have to make a living under the laws they've passed.

  8. #368
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    I like the electric pump for a couple of reasons. One is if you set it up right you can have it run for an extra couple minutes after shut-down. That virtually eliminates the after shut down warm up that happens.

    Other reasons too. One less belt is always a good thing. And, the electric pump is always working at an optimum speed. It isn't too slow at idle or too fast wide open.

    I really like that closed system with the T-stat integrated. That's a system that could get me to use closed cooling... I can see tremendous benefit in that over traditional systems.

  9. #369
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    Vette, trust me on this, That system is great, It was designed by an X Merc engineer on thermodynamics. I was the first tester, 8 years ago. This is the new wave heat exchangers. The new cars are doing it that way. the water pump is always running without restriction of a Tstat because it runs a bypass,full flow system.
    Randy owner of Donzis since 1966
    High Performance props 3, 4, and 5 blade. Turbo and Stainless Steel props. Props for old Volvo drives.
    The reason congressmen try so hard to get re-elected is that they would hate to have to make a living under the laws they've passed.

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustnrot View Post
    At the risk of side-tracking this thread, George please give me some reasons why you go electric water pump.

    In my opinion:
    1. Electric is no more reliable than the mechanical (maybe less so)
    2. Higher Price
    3. Negligible (perhaps unmeasurable) HP increase

    I know I'm right on #2 but what about #1 and #3?
    Tom, It is more expensive, no doubt. Ya just have to decide if the benifits are worth it.
    1) you lose a belt.
    2) The pump is much more efficient and only requires a little over 1/10 HP to operate.
    3) It pumps a continuous 55 GPM and there are no temp spikes like Bob mentioned.
    4) I would say it is more reliable as it will last thousands of hours w/no problems, no side loads on the bearings, no belt to wear out. It is beautifully manufactured, and seemingly all CNC machined.
    5) It may not be that much more expensive as a new pump from Chevrolet, or Merc may be a similar price. I paid $350.00 for this one.
    6) And lastly, mounted remotely, it really cleans up the front of the engine.
    George Carter
    Central Florida
    gcarter763@aol.com
    http://kineticocentralfl.com/


    “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid"
    Professor Ian Plimer, Adilaide and Melbourne Universities

  11. #371
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    I have to agree with mister neatness about clean front. I did it a different way, I hid it with a supercharger. However it ain't over yet the electric pump may come. BTW George the pump is a 1/10 hp pump but the alt HP draw is less with a good alternator. I am still thinking.
    Randy owner of Donzis since 1966
    High Performance props 3, 4, and 5 blade. Turbo and Stainless Steel props. Props for old Volvo drives.
    The reason congressmen try so hard to get re-elected is that they would hate to have to make a living under the laws they've passed.

  12. #372
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    How much is it to convert over to a closed cooling system for a BBC? (Parts wise). How difficult is it to do, and what is the advantage of a closed loop cooling system? Is it really worth it?
    Never Kick a opossum at 40 mph!

  13. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGrizzly View Post
    The new cars are doing it that way. the water pump is always running without restriction of a Tstat because it runs a bypass,full flow system.
    maybe I haven't peeked under enough skirts...I mean hoods but what cars are running this theory of electric pumps?
    Charter Member - WAFNC, SBBR, KWOSG
    1955 Perfect Mate
    1986 Hornet III, 502-415 TRS

    www.donzi.org


  14. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Planetwarmer View Post
    How much is it to convert over to a closed cooling system for a BBC? (Parts wise). How difficult is it to do, and what is the advantage of a closed loop cooling system? Is it really worth it?
    Probably the answer has a lot to do with how much you have invested in your engine.
    Newer engines w/a lot of aluminum and with tightly controlled FI systems absoultely need closed cooling.
    If you spend some time in salt water, or ever intend to, they are a good investment.
    The advantages are a very stable temperature operating range, potential increased performance as some engines respond very well to a little higher temp., a cleaner, longer lasting engine (at least in the cooling loop), eliminates silting in the engine from scale etc.
    And with the electric pump, a very stable operating range (never varies over 10*).
    The major players in the market are ;
    San Juan, located in Washington State. They build a great front mounted system that will take about 2-3 hours to install.
    Seakamp Econocool makes both front mount and remote mount systems. They are both very complete systems w/hoses, fittings and most anything you'll need.
    Monitor Products located in Brooksville, FL has a very complete lineup of front mount and remote mount systems. Most of their systems (I think) have the HE integrated remote thermostat. As far as I know, they are the only company that does.
    That doesn't mean the rest of the suppliers should be ignored. For instance there are things about how San Juan builds their HE's that I really like. But, to the best of my knowledge, they don't build remote systems.
    Monitor Products has a website http://www.monitorpro.com/ where you can see their lineup. But you probably want to buy elsewhere.
    Ocean East Marine http://www.oceaneastmarine.com/ carries both San Juan and Seakamp systems and have excellant discounted prices but don't have a lot of data relating to them so look for your tech info elsewhere.
    Performance Product Technologies is where I bought my system https://www.perfprotech.com/high-per.../category/1511 .
    They apparently are located in Stillwater and may have some connection w/Merc. The person I ordered through was apparently the person Griz dealt w/too as he told me he was a developer of it while working in Merc engineering. Here's a link to the actual system;
    Anyway these systems are going to cost from about $750.00 to $900.00.
    Most of them are fairly simple to install.
    George Carter
    Central Florida
    gcarter763@aol.com
    http://kineticocentralfl.com/


    “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid"
    Professor Ian Plimer, Adilaide and Melbourne Universities

  15. #375
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    That would be Andy Logan. He got fed up with the fon du lac people- other issues but it is not necessary to post. As for changing yo a closed loop, it is simple if you have a circ pump already. It is just like a car. top hose goes in one hole and bottom goes in another. raw water goes into the small hole on one side then the other two go to the exhaust. The mount bracket is the hard part an d not really that bad.
    Buiz I was talking about the cooling system not the circ pump being in the cars. The Cobra has the same type system as well as the air boat I saw at the Miami show.
    Randy owner of Donzis since 1966
    High Performance props 3, 4, and 5 blade. Turbo and Stainless Steel props. Props for old Volvo drives.
    The reason congressmen try so hard to get re-elected is that they would hate to have to make a living under the laws they've passed.

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