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Thread: Decisions 330hp 454/ 350 260hp

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrausMotorSports View Post
    Now i'm really excited to have this small block in it. It will be a change of ride compared to what I usually run. I think i'll be surprised.
    Not only that , but when you DO re-power it'll seem like a new boat all over again .
    Just because something's old doesn't mean you throw it away !

  2. #17
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    260 hp? It will be a real dog and no fun to drive.
    Lake St. Clair, Lake Huron, Lake Erie, Lake Oakland

  3. #18
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    I'm gonna throw out an option that isn't in the list you gave, or any of the follow-ups. Internet opinions and all that...

    Take the monster you're building now, throw in a reasonable cam and wet exhaust, button it up, and go boating. Revisit the lumpy cam and dry exhaust route next winter, if ever. Since the vast majority of folks on here are making anywhere from 300 to 1200 hp with wet exhaust, going with build that requires a dry exhaust definitely isn't necessary to go fast in a 22C, and is sub-optimal for a host of reasons.

    Instead of cobbling up a temporary solution, put the dollars into a solid BBC bullet that you can upgrade if/when needed. Throwing killer heads & induction on a rock-solid forged short block in a year or two is way easier than multiple engine swaps in the same time period.

    JMHO.
    "Speed's fine, but accuracy is final."
    - Bill Jordan

    1998 Donzi 21LXR
    1971 Boston Whaler 13

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by duckhunter View Post
    I'm gonna throw out an option that isn't in the list you gave, or any of the follow-ups. Internet opinions and all that...

    Take the monster you're building now, throw in a reasonable cam and wet exhaust, button it up, and go boating. Revisit the lumpy cam and dry exhaust route next winter, if ever. Since the vast majority of folks on here are making anywhere from 300 to 1200 hp with wet exhaust, going with build that requires a dry exhaust definitely isn't necessary to go fast in a 22C, and is sub-optimal for a host of reasons.

    Instead of cobbling up a temporary solution, put the dollars into a solid BBC bullet that you can upgrade if/when needed. Throwing killer heads & induction on a rock-solid forged short block in a year or two is way easier than multiple engine swaps in the same time period.

    JMHO.
    +2
    I agree.
    22Cs and dry exhaust just don't go together.
    I mean, you asked.......
    George Carter
    Central Florida
    gcarter763@aol.com
    http://kineticocentralfl.com/


    “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid"
    Professor Ian Plimer, Adilaide and Melbourne Universities

  5. #20
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by duckhunter View Post
    I'm gonna throw out an option that isn't in the list you gave, or any of the follow-ups. Internet opinions and all that...

    Take the monster you're building now, throw in a reasonable cam and wet exhaust, button it up, and go boating. Revisit the lumpy cam and dry exhaust route next winter, if ever. Since the vast majority of folks on here are making anywhere from 300 to 1200 hp with wet exhaust, going with build that requires a dry exhaust definitely isn't necessary to go fast in a 22C, and is sub-optimal for a host of reasons.

    Instead of cobbling up a temporary solution, put the dollars into a solid BBC bullet that you can upgrade if/when needed. Throwing killer heads & induction on a rock-solid forged short block in a year or two is way easier than multiple engine swaps in the same time period.

    JMHO.
    I do have many options it seems. My brain hurts trying to over think things I guess. At work I can't do anything (which sucks up a lot of my time). My background is engine building in my teens and early 20's working in a very reputable machine shop. So it's my second nature to build the most you can with what I have. Now that I think about it I guess that was kinda "young and dumb" My other boat is a Solid roller 454 with stellings. The Donzi I picked up for a putt around have fun kinda deal. And run in the mid high 70's. But it's not to far into it to change the cam. It's just the Cam LSA that is getting me on this deal. Cam specs are the Crane 731 .598/610 110LSA. I could have went with the 112 but that's also still pushing it a bit with wet exhaust and in the classics there is not much room for a riser setup. With funding the rest of the build I know trying to sell the beater boat with a bad gas tank will be hit or miss. It's listed now. But we shall see. No comment is a bad comment. I like having many options and appreciate everyones input. Thanks Duck Hunter.

    Quote Originally Posted by gcarter View Post
    +2
    I agree.
    22Cs and dry exhaust just don't go together.
    I mean, you asked.......
    Ha ha yes your are right sir. As in my response to duck hunter my second nature of mentality was always the go as fast as I can and nothing I own is stock and was usually the loudest on the creek (we also have a 18 old school jet boat which is clearly open headers. LOL even the wife's daily truck is a 450hp monster pre runner setup.
    But so you guys are in on my build here are some of the specs so please let me know what you guys think. I can change the cam and still run in the 70's that will work with the combo.

    CI:GEN VI 454 .30 4.280"
    JE Pistons 338181
    File fit rings .22 top .24 bottom
    Comp: 9.5:1
    Crane 731: .598/.610 110
    Double Roller Timing Chain ( Yes I spent the $180 for timing cover for double roller on GEN VI)
    Blue Printed block. Block is Un-shrouded for bigger valves. Deck resurfaced to Correct Compression Ratio
    Merlin Steel heads 320CC intake runners
    2.30 Intake/ 1.88 Exhaust 119CC
    454 Magnum Rods
    Forged Factory Crank
    Single Plate / Edlebrock Air-gap ( Both were going to the dyno to compare)
    850 Quick fuel
    MSD ignition

    Should make for a pretty fast Classic. I've had some seat time in other boats and was looking for a challenge driving a classic with decent power. I've ran 76 in a 19 Caribe built 350 on a Alpha (no power steering) / 70 in deep V and 102 in Blown Cat. But these Classics are gorgeous. But with summer Fastly approaching I just wanted to get it out. As you can tell I tend to overthink things. Probably Water withdraw from this winter. It's still in the 50's today. Going to Key West for the Powerboat Races back in November just amplify my wants to be the Fastest again. But all in all i'm here to meet new people and get new ideas.

  6. #21
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    22C's deep-Vee hulls really aren't the best plan to be the fastest, although
    a number have been built to regularly exceed 90, and a few over 100.
    Most wouldn't be apparent to the casual observer that these boats had been
    extensively modified. They're reasonably quiet at idle, and handle very
    docilely around the dock.

    I appreciate your zeal, it's refreshing to listen to your plans and enthusiasm.
    Donzi's were cutting edge technology 50 years ago, I suppose my own
    vision of a well executed, good performing Donzi today would be to compare
    it to a Bentley GT that is comfortable, looks really cool, and can go really fast
    but everyone knows it's not a sports car and is really designed for cruising
    duty.
    George Carter
    Central Florida
    gcarter763@aol.com
    http://kineticocentralfl.com/


    “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid"
    Professor Ian Plimer, Adilaide and Melbourne Universities

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcarter View Post
    22C's deep-Vee hulls really aren't the best plan to be the fastest, although
    a number have been built to regularly exceed 90, and a few over 100.
    Most wouldn't be apparent to the casual observer that these boats had been
    extensively modified. They're reasonably quiet at idle, and handle very
    docilely around the dock.

    I appreciate your zeal, it's refreshing to listen to your plans and enthusiasm.
    Donzi's were cutting edge technology 50 years ago, I suppose my own
    vision of a well executed, good performing Donzi today would be to compare
    it to a Bentley GT that is comfortable, looks really cool, and can go really fast
    but everyone knows it's not a sports car and is really designed for cruising
    duty.
    Watching some of these guys like Bjorn I believe is his name and Jeff Harris who did the motor for Ekum I believe his name is just blows my mind the speeds those guys see. Honestly I would really like to stay in the 75-80 max. Here on the Chesapeake Bay you can run into a lot of Rogue waves. Not the best conditions for a 22 classic. But I do have good news. I'm seeing interest in the beater and I checked out the stock GEN VI 330's today. We shall see but i'm a believer in things are meant to be they will happen. Hope everyone had a great weekend!

  8. #23
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    That Ilmor 570hp LS motor looks good in a 22. I'll take 2..
    Cheers,
    Pismo
    1996 22 Classic
    Red with Stainless Windshield
    Stock Gen VI 502 Magnum MPI-415hp
    Stock Bravo I
    25" Mirage Plus
    74.5mph best @ 5050rpm GPS (Speedo said 80)
    27" Labbed Mirage Plus
    75.5mph best @ 4800rpm GPS (Speedo said 82)

  9. #24
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    We all have our needs and wants. My boat ran 73 stock. That wasn't enough to get me the thrills I like. I went with a 525 EFI which is a very nice match for the 22 Classic. That gets me into the 80s and great acceleration. I would rarely be able to use much more top end since most of my boating is on the Great Lakes. It's also a reliable package and it likes 87 octane.
    Lake St. Clair, Lake Huron, Lake Erie, Lake Oakland

  10. #25
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    what ever it takes to get on the water

    If the boat came with a small bock originally then dropping in a running 260HP to get on the water is not a bad idea.
    Long term you will not be happy running around with a top speed in the low to mid 50s. Most 22' have big blocks for a reason...

    The 22 is a lot of fun with a high torque engine that give the boat lots of acceleration. IMHO an engine that produces at least 450-500ftlbs is what a 22 needs. Top speeds over 75mph in a 22' will take 450HP+ and to be safe, external steering rams...

    My boat runs great with a bone stock 415HP 502mag, but I won't mind upgrading the engine to make 500HP. I don't have much desire to go faster than 75-80 in her.

    It would be nice to have a small block that made the same power as 502 big block to save on weight and room in the bilge. The cost of such a small block conversion not worth it for me...
    Thank you, Patrick
    1994 18' Classic 350Mag Alpha

    Previously owned Donzis -
    1996 22' Classic, 502Mag Bravo
    1987 20' Minx, 350Mag Alpha
    1975 18' Classic, 350Chevy Volvo 280

  11. #26
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    Don't think you need dry exhaust

    "Cam specs are the Crane 731 .598/610 110LSA"

    The cam specs you listed are very close to the cam Merc ran in the 470HP HP500 Carb engine with wet Gills. The HP500 is a 502 cube not 454 so maybe it would take running the idle a little higher. I think Merc made for 1 year a 450HP/454 with that same HP500 cam.

    The HP500 EFI has the same cam with a 114LSA.

    I think it's totally reasonable to run a stock Cane 731 with 112LSA in a 454 with wet exhaust so long as the risers are full length back close to the transom. No stock short cast iron or short captains call risers.

    I've got sitting on a shelf a ZZ502 cam that I toy with swapping into my engine. Then I say to myself, "she runs so good now, don't mess with her"...
    Thank you, Patrick
    1994 18' Classic 350Mag Alpha

    Previously owned Donzis -
    1996 22' Classic, 502Mag Bravo
    1987 20' Minx, 350Mag Alpha
    1975 18' Classic, 350Chevy Volvo 280

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrausMotorSports View Post
    CI:GEN VI 454 .30 4.280"
    JE Pistons 338181
    File fit rings .22 top .24 bottom
    Comp: 9.5:1
    Crane 731: .598/.610 110
    Double Roller Timing Chain ( Yes I spent the $180 for timing cover for double roller on GEN VI)
    Blue Printed block. Block is Un-shrouded for bigger valves. Deck resurfaced to Correct Compression Ratio
    Merlin Steel heads 320CC intake runners
    2.30 Intake/ 1.88 Exhaust 119CC
    454 Magnum Rods
    Forged Factory Crank
    Single Plate / Edlebrock Air-gap ( Both were going to the dyno to compare)
    850 Quick fuel
    MSD ignition
    Quarter inch gap? A bit tight isn't it?

    I'm assuming you mean .022 & .024. Why so big?
    Why is faster never fast enough.

  13. #28
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    Sure I would love to have Carl's engine in my boat or any BBC for that
    matter,,, it's just not in the cards for my boat. The 6.2 pushes my boat up to
    mid 60's on the slop-n-chop in Narragansett bay I've seen 69 on my gps once coming home from Newport on a low tank of fuel AN just me. Honestly it made me poop my pants,,, super fun,,, blowing along with a chop. I turned some heads that evening. I'm removing the factory water mufflers an adding straight thru tips this year. Man I love my boat!!!
    FISH HARD

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat McPherson View Post
    "Cam specs are the Crane 731 .598/610 110LSA"

    The cam specs you listed are very close to the cam Merc ran in the 470HP HP500 Carb engine with wet Gills. The HP500 is a 502 cube not 454 so maybe it would take running the idle a little higher. I think Merc made for 1 year a 450HP/454 with that same HP500 cam.

    The HP500 EFI has the same cam with a 114LSA.

    I think it's totally reasonable to run a stock Cane 731 with 112LSA in a 454 with wet exhaust so long as the risers are full length back close to the transom. No stock short cast iron or short captains call risers.

    I've got sitting on a shelf a ZZ502 cam that I toy with swapping into my engine. Then I say to myself, "she runs so good now, don't mess with her"...
    Just not getting back around to messing with it. Work has been using up my spare time and weekends. Since then I did sell my other boat so this 454 build is back in swing. Im actually running now a set of CMI Sport tubes. The water enters the exhaust at the very end so I should be fine there with some trial runs to make sure there isn't any Reversion. I just put a combo together with a mix between the two. I do have a nice 502 Dart block but that's not for the Donzi. Really don't need anything more then a decent 454 to keep me happy. Even with this motor it will still get me to the point of installing hydraulic steering sooner then later. Since i've been away from the garage I need to double check my cam specs. Still have my work cutout for me without a doubt. But thats where the fun is right?

    Quote Originally Posted by yeller View Post
    Quarter inch gap? A bit tight isn't it?

    I'm assuming you mean .022 & .024. Why so big?
    lol yes sir! .o22/.024 I like a slightly wider gap. Never know when I may come across a nice set of aluminum heads and a Heffer to stick on top. ;-)

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrausMotorSports View Post
    and a Heffer to stick on top. ;-)
    You are going to put a cow on top of your engine?!? LOL!
    “Oh right, because you walked into strippers discount warehouse and said ‘Help me showcase my intellect.’” - Archer

    Bill
    Grand Rapids, Michigan
    1985 Donzi Criterion SS
    1967 Donzi 16 Ski Sporter, C16-409, Has a new home!
    38' Carver Aft Cabin
    1968 Sea Ray SRV 180 w/1975 70 hp Evinrude
    10" RIB w/15 hp 1984 Evinrude

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