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Thread: Engine Compartment insulation

  1. #1
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    Engine Compartment insulation

    Recently purchased '95 Classic 22. There's an insulating foam on the inside of the engine compartment forward bulkhead. It's black with kind of a "waffle" or "egg crate" surface. Not flat. Looks factory original. It's starting to deterioriate, and since that, and a dead bilge pump are all I can find wrong with the boat, i'm gonna change it.
    Any suggestions or a source for the original foam?
    The boat is so original, I kinda lean toward original replacement. But if there's something better, let's get it in there!
    I'm not sure what's under it yet. Unfinished or gelled surface???
    We the Willing, led by the Unknowing, and paid by the Uncaring
    Have been doing so much, with so little, for so long
    We are now qualified to do Anything, with Nothing at all
    (Tuk U - McKinnley Bay '82)

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    The 1st question that comes to my mind is 'Is the stuff you have now working and making a difference ?' Maybe other 22C owners will know the answer to that if they've been able to do comparisons against other 22s with or without it .
    That would justify replacing it , or just getting rid of it all together .

    From personal experience we did soundproofing in the engine room on the Magnum when it was restored . Just the engine room bulkhead and the inside top of the engine hatch .
    The product we used , I believe , was 'Soundown' , I think it came from the North East somewhere . It's foam encapsulated lead sheet and is chemically and mechanically fastened . And it's not light either .

    I think that if you've got a solidly built boat you'd find that the cracks between the engine room and the c0ckpit contribute more to noise getting through .

    If the stuff you have is just the acoustic egg crate pattern foam you might have a hard time completely removing and cleaning the surface that it was stuck on .

    edit / Wow , my brain must still have a few functioning cells .. found the link . http://www.soundown.com/AI.htm
    Just because something's old doesn't mean you throw it away !

  3. #3
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    Congratulations on the new boat!

    A little history.....
    One of the 22C's weak points (which has been in production since about 1979, or so, under several owners)
    was the deck and cockpit were pretty much a "trampoline" somewhat free to move up and down.
    The problem was a lot of damage was done to the cockpit sole and the deck immediately behind
    the rear seat back. To solve this issue when AMH bought Donzi in '94 was to mount the cockpit to the
    stringers in some polyester putty, and to install the "firewall" you mentioned.
    Its purpose is to support the deck just in front of the hatch, not necessarily to reduce sound levels.
    The firewall is easily removable by removing several screws, then you can clean it off and refinish any
    way you want.
    My own opinion is to use that bulkhead to mount stuff to.
    Here's an example of what can be done if you set your mind to it. My boat is an '88 22C Testarossa,
    and didn't have the full bulkhead, so I used a glass reinforced 3/4" piece of plywood bonded to the
    rear seat back. As you can see, there's a closed cooling system, fuel system, all the stern electrical, three
    hydraulic pumps, a Halon fire system, and part of the external hydraulic steering system mounted to it:
    Attached Images Attached Images
    George Carter
    Central Florida
    gcarter763@aol.com
    http://kineticocentralfl.com/


    “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid"
    Professor Ian Plimer, Adilaide and Melbourne Universities

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    What is under the original is most likely a sheet of plywood. Getting it off was easy. Use a putty knife and keep a trash bag and shop vac close by.
    Frankly, the foam didn't do a heck of lot. I have always like the plastic or metal, diamond plate look on the firewall. Keep the plywood and cover it the diamond plate.

    Bob


    seatback.JPG
    Member - WAFNC
    1997 22 Classic (sold)
    1997 Formula 271 Fastech
    502 Mag MPI

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    If you want something there for sound insulation, there are folk-covered foam materials now. Will look much better than exposed egg-crate and should do a better job.
    "I don't have time to get into it, but he went through a lot." -Pulp Fiction

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    Folk- covered?

    Where can I see folk-covered foam? Thanks


    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    If you want something there for sound insulation, there are folk-covered foam materials now. Will look much better than exposed egg-crate and should do a better job.
    I have far too many boats, just ask my Wife.
    If you have something of great quality, and you take care of it, it will last forever.
    Never Economise on Luxuries


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    Quote Originally Posted by bertsboat View Post
    Where can I see folk-covered foam? Thanks
    LOL, oops--might have been autocorrect. Should be 'foil.'
    "I don't have time to get into it, but he went through a lot." -Pulp Fiction

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    Nice Bulkhead!

    Thanks for the input guys.
    And George- that's some nice work on the rigging. This boat currently has 2 trim pumps and the actuator for the silent choice mounted up front, and I may install FWC, so that pic is great.
    Bob, that looks like what's showing through the foam in one spot. this stuff has gotta go- it's deterioriated enough that if I don't use the shop vac on it, the engine will inhale it.
    Thanks for the link, ill send a pic when i'm done.
    Fred
    We the Willing, led by the Unknowing, and paid by the Uncaring
    Have been doing so much, with so little, for so long
    We are now qualified to do Anything, with Nothing at all
    (Tuk U - McKinnley Bay '82)

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    See post #134 for all the photos. I did the foiled foam but after a couple years the foil started to separate from the foam. Seems as though the adhesive didn't last.

    http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthre...ighlight=bilge

    Bob
    Member - WAFNC
    1997 22 Classic (sold)
    1997 Formula 271 Fastech
    502 Mag MPI

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tidbart View Post
    What is under the original is most likely a sheet of plywood. Getting it off was easy. Use a putty knife and keep a trash bag and shop vac close by.
    Frankly, the foam didn't do a heck of lot. I have always like the plastic or metal, diamond plate look on the firewall. Keep the plywood and cover it the diamond plate.

    Bob


    seatback.JPG
    Bob,
    Mine is identical to yours. Mine is a 96 and although the foam seems to be still intact the back board I took out just to check out the rest of the boat. I'm assuming it was manufactured that way but in my OCD I realized how crappy the cuts were and decided to take it out and since it had to come out cracked in half (surprising I made that work in the engine bay) which i had to do to get it out of the hatch I made a template so I can replace what was in there better and stronger. NOW I have noticed that through the years some Classics have the cover between the Stringers to the sides of the engine bay where as some are open. I have one big 6" hole to access the motor mount bolts but when I started digging through mine I realized that there was a soft spot under the "fake" fiberglass diamond plate design or anti-skid if you want to call it that. That soft spot was a total of 4 different spots and what I realized is those were covered by design and those holes were designed to fill that small void with expanding foam. Those 4 are just for the back side. The same manufactured holes are closer to the board behind the seat. As you can see in the pictures. That foam in mine was wet. So i drilled the holes and vacuumed up the loose pieces. I plan to remove mine all together (foam) and replace just the stinger side foam. And therefore make it water tight so it doesn't happen again under my ownership. Heres' a pic of mine and you can see the small holes in the back. It also looks like I got to it before it does any further damage as the stringers and the wood look good. It's dirty but this is going to be my before picture. I haven't done anything except find what wrong with mine before it goes out for it's first fun run in April on the Chesapeake….




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    I have a 1996 as well and have black egg crate foam that is deteriorating badly. If I touch it, it makes a hell of a mess, just black powder/particles everywhere. Will be replacing with something else. The underside of my hatch currently has nothing and I may add something there as well.. Would be nice to quiet it down as much as possible. I thought of reversing the vents so the rear one faces forward and the front faces back but they are not symmetric or interchangeable. Great thread, just what I need to know, thanks.
    Cheers,
    Pismo
    1996 22 Classic
    Red with Stainless Windshield
    Stock Gen VI 502 Magnum MPI-415hp
    Stock Bravo I
    25" Mirage Plus
    74.5mph best @ 5050rpm GPS (Speedo said 80)
    27" Labbed Mirage Plus
    75.5mph best @ 4800rpm GPS (Speedo said 82)

  12. #12
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    Insulation

    Happy New Year everyone.
    I was just gonna rest and relax today.
    Following several (OCD) days spent detailing, checking out, cleaning and maintaining every moving part on my trailer. ( '02 EZLoader, Tandem, Galvanized)
    Secure in my knowledge that all I had to do on the boat itself was a bilge pump and some foam insulation.
    HOWEVER - now that I have read the responses, I'm off to the shop to investigate.
    I do really love taking stuff apart, so all this great info is really fuelingIMG_1085.JPGIMG_1087.JPG my obsessive side.......
    We the Willing, led by the Unknowing, and paid by the Uncaring
    Have been doing so much, with so little, for so long
    We are now qualified to do Anything, with Nothing at all
    (Tuk U - McKinnley Bay '82)

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrausMotorSports View Post
    Bob,
    Mine is identical to yours. Mine is a 96 and although the foam seems to be still intact the back board I took out just to check out the rest of the boat. I'm assuming it was manufactured that way but in my OCD I realized how crappy the cuts were and decided to take it out and since it had to come out cracked in half (surprising I made that work in the engine bay) which i had to do to get it out of the hatch I made a template so I can replace what was in there better and stronger. NOW I have noticed that through the years some Classics have the cover between the Stringers to the sides of the engine bay where as some are open. I have one big 6" hole to access the motor mount bolts but when I started digging through mine I realized that there was a soft spot under the "fake" fiberglass diamond plate design or anti-skid if you want to call it that. That soft spot was a total of 4 different spots and what I realized is those were covered by design and those holes were designed to fill that small void with expanding foam. Those 4 are just for the back side. The same manufactured holes are closer to the board behind the seat. As you can see in the pictures. That foam in mine was wet. So i drilled the holes and vacuumed up the loose pieces. I plan to remove mine all together (foam) and replace just the stinger side foam. And therefore make it water tight so it doesn't happen again under my ownership. Heres' a pic of mine and you can see the small holes in the back. It also looks like I got to it before it does any further damage as the stringers and the wood look good. It's dirty but this is going to be my before picture. I haven't done anything except find what wrong with mine before it goes out for it's first fun run in April on the Chesapeake….
    Another thing AMH did in '94 was to change the layout of the stringers, also to use two courses of 3/4" plywood for stringer material and to include
    the "covers" from the stringer tops to the chine. Donzi later used composite materials for stringers and transoms on some boats and, seemingly,
    from year to year.
    The problem w/some boats where those side compartments aren't well drained, the stringers and other parts would rot w/o any way to know it.
    I'm not sure the covers are really a good idea from a longevity standpoint unless everything is changed to Coosa or some other composite material if
    rot sets in. One good idea is to improve drainage into those unseen compartments.
    Here are some pictures of a members boat where some rather extensive repairs were done.









    Attached Images Attached Images
    George Carter
    Central Florida
    gcarter763@aol.com
    http://kineticocentralfl.com/


    “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid"
    Professor Ian Plimer, Adilaide and Melbourne Universities

  14. #14
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    Why does it always seem to be the boats w the red stripes??
    We the Willing, led by the Unknowing, and paid by the Uncaring
    Have been doing so much, with so little, for so long
    We are now qualified to do Anything, with Nothing at all
    (Tuk U - McKinnley Bay '82)

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcarter View Post
    Another thing AMH did in '94 was to change the layout of the stringers, also to use two courses of 3/4" plywood for stringer material and to include
    the "covers" from the stringer tops to the chine. Donzi later used composite materials for stringers and transoms on some boats and, seemingly,
    from year to year.
    The problem w/some boats where those side compartments aren't well drained, the stringers and other parts would rot w/o any way to know it.
    I'm not sure the covers are really a good idea from a longevity standpoint unless everything is changed to Koosa or some other composite material if
    rot sets in. One good idea is to improve drainage into those unseen compartments.
    Here are some pictures of a members boat where some rather extensive repairs were done.










    Thank you! Thank You sir! Good info to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by FarPoint View Post
    Why does it always seem to be the boats w the red stripes??
    good point I've noticed it too! Mine needs an entire paint job. It has the blisters everywhere and needs to be stripped and redone. I took ownership knowing this in hopes to saving another classic from abuse.

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