Dock Line Size ...

[Carl C]

If the anchor lines are good enough for Glass Dave then they are good enough for me. If the dock lines are good enough for big MTIs, Cigs, Skaters, Velocities, Donzis, etc etc., they are good enough for me. These lines are identical to the dock lines that Donzi sent me to use on my brand new Donzi powerboat and which lasted 10 years before one failed. Bye.

[Ghost]

You're over analyzing things again. I'm just posting where to get a good deal on dock lines. If you don't trust me then read here: http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...ock-lines.html and save some money on your next dock lines like the rest of us are. Probably good for this too:

This is pretty funny. Hard to know if it was over-analyzing or not without reading and comprehending what I wrote. Setting the engineering aside, it should still be obvious that I had read every word of that OSO thread, since I actually gave summary stats on what was said and not said in that thread, referred to specific examples of the complaints that thread contains (despite Carl's repeated false claim that none exist), and cited the couple of guys over there who tried to save some others from following the herd's mistakes.

I also explained how at first it seems like one can save money, but:

1. it's a pretty trivial amount at a mere $1.50 per line, even at West Marine markup on pre-spliced nylon
2. it's penny-wise, pound-foolish just on the UV degradation factor alone. Nylon outlasts polypropylene by a lot.
3. it's even more penny-wise, pound-foolish if you consider the higher risk of damage from lines without the proper give to them

Perhaps that's over-analysis. Perhaps it's THE analysis. But I hope it helps some folks who were not aware that these factors can matter, and that there was near-universal agreement on them by boating experts, if one looks. On the importance of stretch, on the material to use, on the size to use, and on the trade offs between the stretchier 3-strand and the more chafe-resistant double-braid. The sneakiest one being that right-sized is better than too large--the most common mistake of them all, even for folks who know to use nylon. And if you're in for a really rough ride, don't settle for nylon. Consider snubbers.

Contrasted with the under-analysis, essentially "3/8 is too weak. Half-inch broke on me. I'm going with half-inch again." <face-palm>

But it I have to admit, Carl's lines are pretty, cheap, and yellow. Even if they might give you something you didn't really want. (I'll resist the urge to make an extremely politically-incorrect joke here. Well, sort-of. )

[Ghost]

Mike's essay on "momentum" reminded me of the scene in "American Graffiti" where the local punks chain the police car's rear axle to something substantial........just replace "rear axle" with "cleat" or "bow eye"....
Come on, every one remembers that scene, don't they?

Exactly! I hadn't thought about that in years! Classic.

[Ghost]

If the anchor lines are good enough for Glass Dave then they are good enough for me. If the dock lines are good enough for big MTIs, Cigs, Skaters, Velocities, Donzis, etc etc., they are good enough for me. These lines are identical to the dock lines that Donzi sent me to use on my brand new Donzi powerboat and which lasted 10 years before one failed. Bye.

It shouldn't ever fail.

BTW, your hull cracked, just as Donzi had sent it to you. When they repaired it, they made it different from how it was the first time. If Donzi sent you a paper raincoat would you say they were a good idea?

And FLOATING anchor rode?!! Seriously? You can't even bring yourself to say a floating anchor rode is a bad idea? It might be good enough for you, but it's not good enough for anyone creeping in our out of an anchorage anywhere near you. Especially at night. Floating anchor rode = prop city. I can totally accept that someone might not think of this at first. But not to get it once it's pointed out?! Thanks a lot. Now a bag of hammers in my basement wants to be a pilot. I'd bet that Glass Dave would agree if it was pointed out to him. If he hasn't figured it out already. Not fair to tar him with your brush when he wasn't offered the chance to consider the point. With enough wind or current keeping it fairly taut, a person might not notice it was a bad idea. For a while.

That's all, folks. I hope some of this has been useful. If I can be of help, please post or PM. Don't be shy. Smart people ask questions. I don't claim to know all the answers, but I know some of them on this subject. I very much appreciate all the useful things people share here. I learn a lot reading what people contribute.

If you have to make one of these mistakes, definitely buy the wrong dock lines. You'll probably get away with that. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't buy a floating anchor rode. For yourself and others.

[woobs]

Okay, so there's obviously some passion for docking lines on this site....

Personally, I think that is great and I not only learned a few things; I have had to think about a few other things. When we learn to do things right, everyone on the water benefits.

I can't help but think if we were discussing an item that added 5mph to a top boat speed ... how the minutia would not escape many (if any). But, because "ropes are ropes", when actually they are "lines" and there are actual facts which seem undisputed, that we choose to ignore the "best" or "correct" item due to whatever reason we justify. This is funny.

In truth, it is mostly application based. Now I am educated as to the strongest lines available, is this what I need? Are there other factors that should be considered? It's the same as other rigging choices on my boat. Do I need a Bravo drive as my Alpha might break at 300HP? Do I need Livorsi gauges as my Faria gauges could be slightly less accurate? Do I need steel braided oil lines where standard rubber lines will do the job? These are all questions with different answers according to the application of the product and the use of the boat.

It has been interesting learning so much about lines (stuff I have never considered) ... With this knowledge I can now make better choices with respects to how my boat is rigged. Thanks for the info! Awesome seminar Ghost!!!

[woobs]

Okay, so after my last post I went to my Sea-box and pulled out my spare lines (same as my regular lines except colour).
Turns out they are 1/2" Nylon with a double braid, full splice and whipped ends.... Probably why they did so well as a tow line last summer. AND they were just $11.99 CAD for 15'! (I also have 25')

Phew, crisis averted... I like these lines and I didn't want to change. Yeah, I know... it's 1/2" and not 3/8" and it's double braided, not 3 strand but, it's comfortable and spliced from the factory so, it should be more than strong enough with better stretch than poly. It's good for me.

[duckhunter]

Dang Woobs, you made some great comments but missed the whole point. If it's not color-coordinated to your gelcoat it doesn't even count.

Keep up, would ya?

It was definitely a good tutorial on docklines. Reaffirmed some stuff I already knew and gave me some new stuff to think about. Can't ask for much more than that.

We should talk about fenders next...

[woobs]

...Keep up, would ya? ...

Dude, Gelcoat?

[gcarter]

Sean, I like how Canadian packaging must help those of you who don't live in Quebec (and probably don't speak French on a daily basis) keep up your French speaking and comprehension skills.

[Ed Donnelly]

If they float, I will use them for the shallow end of my pool
Looking forward to using them for the first time at the awakening.
P.S. No Bill I will not trade back our Donzis so you can have new lines..Ed

[Ghost]

Dude, Gelcoat?

Damn, Woobs, that's some good looking wood!

(Go ahead folks, have at me. )

[woobs]

Bonjour Geroges,
Je ne pas parle francais. Je suis Canadian! eh.

Ghost, merci pour la comment de la bois sur mon bateaux.

Seriously, I don't speak French at all... anyone that does could tell from ^

[Carl C]

I concede that dock lines should be 100% nylon after looking into it. I don't know why Donzi was providing Poly lines with their new boats. I don't know why folks with the likes of MTI and Skater boats are all over these poly lines. I don't know why Glass Dave endorses the floating anchor line. My last poly lines went ten years and these yellow ones will probably not be looking so bright in five years or so. Then I will buy nylon lines. (Mike, you do over analyze things though! )

edit: They will still be yellow though, as is my current, non-floating nylon anchor line!

[gcarter]

I think I know why the correct lines aren't supplied.........
The MFGRS get a huge break on volume orders which include customization.
I betcha.

[CHACHI]

The dock lines Donzi gave you are considered "added value".

Donzi is not in the business of selling dock lines.

Ken