Arneson Surface Drive On 22 Classic . . . . .

[gcarter]

Sitting here thinking about successful surface drive boats.......
Many are on stepped hulls which run flat anyway, so maybe
that's what's required. Stepless hulls need bow lift, hulls w/two
or more steps run completely flat since the hull has two or
more leading edges (or bows). Hence Arnisons work better.

[Ed Donnelly]

Give it a try Carl. It's only money and you can't take it with you. Stick on a procharger and away you go.
Now if it were my boat I would scrap the Merc drive, put on a 270T with an E lower unit ...Ed

[Just Say N20]

Now if it were my boat I would scrap the Merc drive, put on a 270T with an E lower unit ...Ed

Interesting comment. . . . 😎

[Carl C]

That makes a lot of sense George. I had wondered why they were putting steps all the way up to the front of hulls now. Ed, a Volvo? Really? Looks like an Arny is out; I don't think it will work. I'd like to see Bjorn check back in with some more details on his setup running 112 with a pro-charged 540.

[gcarter]

Ilmore?

[Scott Pearson]

Ken Lessard had one on his black 22 classic with a twin turbo BB Chevy. He had the boat at our Dust-Off about 5 -6 years ago.

[MDonziM]

My 2c after doing a big engine build and a Blackhawk on a standard 22 hull.

The Blackhawk has certain benefits in high speed handling but other drawbacks. Granted mine was mounted deep on a standard '94 bravo setup but the boat ran very flat and wet. My impression was that if it could have trimmed more it would have been 5 or 6mph faster. Carl, if you compare our 22's mine had an added 100hp to yours and only managed 1mph faster so I don't think it was the fastest drive setup for the motor/hull. The Blackhawk was also not good in rough/sloppy water conditions. I have no Arneson experience but agree with your concept that the 22 needs leverage and bow-lift for max speed, so from my thinking it would not be the best candidate. If you are considering going for more hp why not consider a BMaxx drive? I'm pretty sure they are good to 700hp, maybe more on a 22.

- M

[Ed Donnelly]

That makes a lot of sense George. I had wondered why they were putting steps all the way up to the front of hulls now. Ed, a Volvo? Really? Looks like an Arny is out; I don't think it will work. I'd like to see Bjorn check back in with some more details on his setup running 112 with a pro-charged 540.

Quote Originally Posted by MOP View Post
That is "Donzis" boat from Mass it was initially setup with the 454 but I suspect that will change!

He is a really nice guy. I have a fin that goes on your skeg that helps you carry the bow that he built. He also has a 6 blade Hydromotive prop like the one that I have that he was trying to run on his.

I am thinking about putting one on my ZX if my drive goes out. I think that a guy over in GA is thinking about putting one on his ZX too!!

Carl; don't laugh at the Volvo. I put a lot more horsepower through mine than
You have. It is a lot stronger than your Merc..Ed

[Carl C]

Ken Lessard had one on his black 22 classic with a twin turbo BB Chevy. He had the boat at our Dust-Off about 5 -6 years ago.

That's cool! Thanks, Scott.

My 2c after doing a big engine build and a Blackhawk on a standard 22 hull.
The Blackhawk has certain benefits in high speed handling but other drawbacks. Granted mine was mounted deep on a standard '94 bravo setup but the boat ran very flat and wet. My impression was that if it could have trimmed more it would have been 5 or 6mph faster. Carl, if you compare our 22's mine had an added 100hp to yours and only managed 1mph faster so I don't think it was the fastest drive setup for the motor/hull. The Blackhawk was also not good in rough/sloppy water conditions. I have no Arneson experience but agree with your concept that the 22 needs leverage and bow-lift for max speed, so from my thinking it would not be the best candidate. If you are considering going for more hp why not consider a BMaxx drive? I'm pretty sure they are good to 700hp, maybe more on a 22.
- M

Good stuff. I'm not interested in doing a blackhawk and I'm now convinced that an Arneson won't work well. If I don't up my power then I think I will stick with the XR/Imco combo. My upper has had the bearings hard shimmed and the gears looked perfect with Brian Orlandi's camera probe.

Quote Originally Posted by MOP View Post
That is "Donzis" boat from Mass it was initially setup with the 454 but I suspect that will change!
He is a really nice guy. I have a fin that goes on your skeg that helps you carry the bow that he built. He also has a 6 blade Hydromotive prop like the one that I have that he was trying to run on his.
I am thinking about putting one on my ZX if my drive goes out. I think that a guy over in GA is thinking about putting one on his ZX too!!
Carl; don't laugh at the Volvo. I put a lot more horsepower through mine than
You have. It is a lot stronger than your Merc..Ed

The running attitude of my boat is dialed in with minimal positive trim. It looks exactly like Bjorn's boat running 112 but 27 mph slower! I'm pretty happy with the package I put together. Much more speed would be useless on the Great Lakes. JK on the Volvo. I know they are tough but one won't be making it's way onto my boat. I hate knowing that the drive is my weak link and I grimace every time I don't throttle back in time when getting air. I was mostly wondering if an Arneson could eliminate that weak link while adding quite a bit of top end from not dragging a drive through the water. Now I see that it won't.

[yeller]

How about an SCX4? The -2 shorty is proven to work on the 22. A -4 might do even better....and it's a lot stronger.

I know your not interested in a BH and I don't blame you, so I apologize if I'm taking your thread off topic, But to talk about the BH a bit (because it is a surface drive also). It is too bad they are out of production because it would be interesting to see how they would do on a 22 at different drive heights. I know Donzi tried to make it work as a true surface drive but did they experiment at different heights on a non BH hull? i don't think anyone's tried raising the BH from stock X on a 22. We all know raising it on an 18 is extra speed. Is there a spot on the 22 between stock X and true surface drive that will get noticeable extra mph? Mine is an inch or two higher than MdonziM and I got 86 gps out of it on its first run (and only gps'd run) with about 525-550hp. I'm sure I could of got a couple more mph if I hadn't killed the motor. If I ever get the boat running again I'll have another 100hp but it won't do me any good because I was at the limit of the props with 550hp I don't want to spin the drive or motor any faster. I have thought of putting a 1:36 gear set in it but I'm not too enthused about spending money on an obsolete drive.

[yeller]

Ken Lessard had one on his black 22 classic with a twin turbo BB Chevy. He had the boat at our Dust-Off about 5 -6 years ago.

.......and how did it run? I remember when he started building that setup. I was super interested because I love dual turbo setups but I don't recall him ever posting about it after it was done

[gcarter]

Mine likes to porpoise. I've moved weight around and lengthened strakes. Three feet extra didn't make much difference.
212 lbs in the front made it better but not quite the right answer.
A 17.75x24p four blade Rolla made it much much better. Unfortunately it wasn't mine.
i need to find one for sale. Big diameter and at least four blade works best on my boat. I am currently running a 17x24 three blade cleaver.
Some longer tabs will probably help as well. I have the stock Bennets but I
may put some 280s on but only after I find another four blade.

Kenny's 22 wouldn't lift the bow no matter what.
I would think a 22 would need the inner strakes shortened to give it half a chance of working. A chopper prop Like a Hoss would be needed as well.
It's definitely a project.

Jeff

I reposted Jeff Hall's post for Yeller.

[MOP]

Arneson rockers did a great job on on Geo's boat, added quite a bit of speed. I would like to see a 22 with the rockers might do the trick.

[HallJ]

I think Kenny tried those too but I could be mistaken.
It's very strange that my boat has the opposite problem.

Jeff

[joseph m. hahnl]

I recently bought all the tools to rebuild my own Alpha upper. I put a 1.32 :1 gear set in for added strength. The 400 is pushing the limits of the drive. The SE drive I was running must of spun the pinion nut loose as the bearing pack was loose on the gear set. It also had a broken shaft on the driven gear. I purchased a used drive and it lasted a month before it popped the bearing pack and the driven gear bearing which in turn toasted the drive case. The bearing pack is pretty well stuck so I can't get it apart. There was a lot of metal so I couldn't risk using the lower. It was a total loss. I rebuilt my original gear case and it is all together and back on the Minx, Just needs oil and the prop put back on. I have another 1.32 :1 gear set for the SE drive But no bearings as of yet. I will build that as a spare. Both gear set are hard shimmed bearings. Why Merc ever went to the press fit gear and rolling torque on the Gen II and the Bravo is beyond me. So the point to all this is? Keep the Bravo, buy the tools, and fix your own drive