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Thread: Donzi 16 Timeline - The Boats Built During 1964

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattyboy View Post
    ok more info. only the pics of the 2 16s is from 64 everything else is from 65 so the ads brochures and flyers have no place in the 1964 timeline.

    I think your reference to the "2 16s" being from 1964 is the black and white photo below signed by Alan Brown, correct?

    On the rest of your sentence above, I'm not so sure I agree with you yet Matty. When you say everything else is from '65 which "brochures" and "advertisements" are you talking about specifically?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattyboy View Post
    just a thought and maybe someone who works with gel can comment when shooting two color dark and light gel together don't they blurr or bleed a little on the borders of the two colors isn't that why Donzi used pinstriping on the deck stripes to hide it? When and who (mfg'r) was the first to put contrasting gel colors together? two tone hulls come much later than 64 is it possible that all the early 16 left the hull one color white and got their color once they were out of the mold? If you are making all white 16s no need to number them they are all the same ?

    could the two color gel have been done so well on the early boats that the talent or technique or materials at the start let them get a crisp clear line then later on they couldn't do it for lack of those three and needed pinstripes?? just a thought, Donzi did state all hulls wonder white in their sales literature for the 16

    would it make sense that the stripes at the start were paint even the early solid dark color non white hulls which usually had a white or black stripe usually only black on the yellow and white on the solid blue green or red? some time 65-66 ish they start with white deck and solid hulls with a matching deck stripe.
    For the 1964 builds I think you need to ask yourself why Frank Civitano would remember his Dad's 16 Ski Sporter as he described it being solid green. Do you doubt his recollection? Color gets applied in the mold unlike paint. The fact that the Donzi factory described all there 16' boats as Wonder White to me does not mean a lot as they would need to publish a standard. They were easily able to produce a one-off gelcoat job in grumble green with a lucan red stripe. I'm sure you know how to reach Frank C (aka Shanghied Again) so why not give him a ring and ask some more questions about his Dads 1964 Ski Sporter? Do the research.

    Again, these are Franks comments below. Could he be mistaken and the hull was a 1965? Certainly possible but not probable. I'm going with Frank C's recollection of the hull being bought in 1964 from Don.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shanghied Again
    My Dad new Don well back in the old days when he used to be a builder. I wish I still had our 1st Green and Red striped Donzi 16 that Don talked my father into buying in 1964. She wasn't the fastest, but it was only the 4th or 5th made. He was a fun guy, that I remember. I was only 14 and the last time I seen him was when I was 17.
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by woobs View Post
    Nope. not a V drive
    Attachment 83291

    Woobs that may be a key my 16 and the eaton 16 pictured in TKOTBR and the Rudder test article the pick up is on the starboard side

    I do recall something about Ford changing the lower cooling hose from one side to the other but I need to confirm the timeframe
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  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Guimond View Post
    I think your reference to the "2 16s" being from 1964 is the black and white photo below signed by Alan Brown, correct?

    On the rest of your sentence above, I'm not so sure I agree with you yet Matty. When you say everything else is from '65 which "brochures" and "advertisements" are you talking about specifically?
    I contacted Brownie on social media posted some pics and asked him about the sales literature and the side by side pics

    sorry I guess that doesn't count
    When the sky is grey,look out to sea.
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  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattyboy View Post
    ok more info. only the pics of the 2 16s is from 64 everything else is from 65 so the ads brochures and flyers have no place in the 1964 timeline.
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Guimond View Post
    I think your reference to the "2 16s" being from 1964 is the black and white photo below signed by Alan Brown, correct? On the rest of your sentence above, I'm not so sure I agree with you yet Matty. When you say everything else is from '65 which "brochures" and "advertisements" are you talking about specifically?
    Quote Originally Posted by mattyboy View Post
    I contacted Brownie on social media posted some pics and asked him about the sales literature and the side by side pics. sorry I guess that doesn't count
    Matty, thank you. In creating this timeline I have found that precise language matters. I like to know any source/s whenever possible as I've spent the needed time to do the research. This is how I uncovered that the Jacksonville Ski Sporter 16 was NOT the first 16 hull built as you had thought for over a decade. Now let's both get back to playing nice.

    Moving on, with Brownie telling you on Face Bonk that the black and white and color photos of him driving the Ski Sporter with the Eaton drive (l personally labeled it #1 in the color pic) and Jim Wynn driving the Ski Sporter with the Volvo 200 drive (#2 in the color pic) was taken in 1964 we can further narrow down the three photos below to having been taken in the 4th Quarter of 1964. Either October, November, or December.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  6. #111
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    Woobs

    the rh lh change in water pumps was in 1970 so that's not a lead for you sorry, an eaton for sure, if i find anything else I'll let you know

    edit could this have been a smaller interceptor?? the 200ci 120 hp 6cyl ???
    When the sky is grey,look out to sea.
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  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattyboy View Post
    Woobs

    the rh lh change in water pumps was in 1970 so that's not a lead for you sorry, an eaton for sure, if i find anything else I'll let you know

    edit could this have been a smaller interceptor?? the 200ci 120 hp 6cyl ???
    Matty, thanks for looking that up. I'm pretty sure it was the V8 due to the dual exhaust holes in the transom. Is it possible that things were relocated from really early builds to just early builds as they learned through production?
    Sean Conroy,
    1964 Formula Jr. (hull #2) project

    1972 Greavette Sunflash III
    1981 Kavalk Mistral project

    "A man can accomplish anything... as long as he doesn't care who gets the credit."

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by woobs View Post
    Matty, thanks for looking that up. I'm pretty sure it was the V8 due to the dual exhaust holes in the transom. Is it possible that things were relocated from really early builds to just early builds as they learned through production?

    not sure I have never really had a chance to work on the front end of an interceptor i know they had their own front end setup and I guess it would not be all that hard to plumb the hose over to the right side. I know the eaton by volvos and the volvos the water comes from the right side
    When the sky is grey,look out to sea.
    When the waves are high and the light is dying,
    well raise a glass and think of me...
    When I'm home again,
    boys, I'll be buying!

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  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by woobs View Post
    Matty, thanks for looking that up. I'm pretty sure it was the V8 due to the dual exhaust holes in the transom. Is it possible that things were relocated from really early builds to just early builds as they learned through production?

    Woobs

    thought about this a little more and I think there are some possibilities.


    1. could be as simple as "Hey knucklehead your other right" port is port but your right or left is all a matter of your perspective.

    2. I have seen larger Ford interceptors that have 90 deg elbows to port . maybe they were trying to standardize on where to drill holes in the bottom of the boat your location would work for an I/O and a v drive not sure maybe we will find out one day
    BTW yours looks to have a wood pad for the fixture I don't seem to recall that on my 67 all I remember is the valve on it that I could never reach
    When the sky is grey,look out to sea.
    When the waves are high and the light is dying,
    well raise a glass and think of me...
    When I'm home again,
    boys, I'll be buying!

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  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattyboy View Post
    ok more info, only the pics of the 2 16s is from 64 everything else is from 65 so the ads brochures and flyers have no place in the 1964 timeline.
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Guimond View Post
    I think your reference to the "2 16s" being from 1964 is the black and white photo below signed by Alan Brown, correct? On the rest of your sentence above, I'm not so sure I agree with you yet Matty. When you say everything else is from '65 which "brochures" and "advertisements" are you talking about specifically?
    Quote Originally Posted by mattyboy View Post
    I contacted Brownie on social media posted some pics and asked him about the sales literature and the side by side pics. sorry I guess that doesn't count
    I have done a lot of boating this week with The Mule, but finally got around to digging back into my archive to continue the 1964 Ski Sporter Timeline.

    Both of the ads below reflect a 1964 hull. One ad is from December, 1964, and then, the same magazine runs an ad in January, 1965. Both of these pieces are sales literature and what is very interesting is the fact that one ad highlights the upcoming "New York Boat Show" that starts on January 15, 1965. A fair amount of effort went into the production of these two pieces no doubt. The pictures would clearly have been taken in 1964. Also take note that in one month's time Don A decided to raise the public price of the 16 Ski Sporter model by $100.

    If magazines back then were delivered to the subscriber on the first day of the issues month, that would make the December issue of Motor Boating arrive in the readers mailbox on November 30, 1964.
    Before that, it would have taken say 30 days to get the issue actually put together so the Donzi factory would have had to give it's photos and copy for the ad of the 16 to Motor Boating by October 30, 1964

    This proves that even with there heavy ocean race schedule, Donzi was geared up to promote 16 Ski Sporter's as early as October, 1964.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Guimond View Post
    I have done a lot of boating this week with The Mule, but finally got around to digging back into my archive to continue the 1964 Ski Sporter Timeline.

    Both of the ads below reflect a 1964 hull. One ad is from December, 1964, and then, the same magazine runs an ad in January, 1965. Both of these pieces are sales literature and what is very interesting is the fact that one ad highlights the upcoming "New York Boat Show" that starts on January 15, 1965. A fair amount of effort went into the production of these two pieces no doubt. The pictures would clearly have been taken in 1964. Also take note that in one month's time Don A decided to raise the public price of the 16 Ski Sporter model by $100.

    If magazines back then were delivered to the subscriber on the first day of the issues month, that would make the December issue of Motor Boating arrive in the readers mailbox on November 30, 1964.
    Before that, it would have taken say 30 days to get the issue actually put together so the Donzi factory would have had to give it's photos and copy for the ad of the 16 to Motor Boating by October 30, 1964

    This proves that even with there heavy ocean race schedule, Donzi was geared up to promote 16 Ski Sporter's as early as October, 1964.
    Interesting so how long would it have taken donzi to get the bw press photos done? if it takes 30 days to get a magazine in print how long would it take to get the bw and white glossy's ?? these BW ads feature a 16 with an aq200 so they have to be of the Brownie show boat.

    production on the aq100 drive stopped in 1963 and production on the aq200 drive started in 1963 how long it took to go thru on hand stock of the aq100 and to ramp up production and inventories state side on the aq200 who knows? but the aq 200 drive is produced in 1963 and used on the aq180 v8 engine package which was only in production for 1 year 1963 1964 very surprised this motor and drive package never took off 15 more hp than the interceptor and an aq200 drive which is bullet proof so much stronger than an eaton
    When the sky is grey,look out to sea.
    When the waves are high and the light is dying,
    well raise a glass and think of me...
    When I'm home again,
    boys, I'll be buying!

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  12. #117
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    Hmmmmm............

    So just to be clear Matty, you think that these three pictures below are of the exact same boat AND you think the boat is the one Brownie took to the Jacksonville boat show? Brownie's Jax 16 had a blue deck stripe.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  13. #118
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    The Jacksonville boat show's first day was Friday, November 13, 1964.

    In the "Exhibit A" photo above, if I back into the advertisements production for the December 1964 issue of the magazine, the photo would have to have been taken around October 15, 1964
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Guimond View Post
    The Jacksonville boat show was November 13, 1964.

    In the "Exhibit A" photo above, if I back into the advertisements production for the December 1964 issue of the magazine, the photo would have to have been taken around October 15, 1964

    the pics in your 3 exhibits are the same that appeared in the BW glossy

    as I have said before these BW glossy's are the same pics there were 4 or 5 of them I can only seem to find two on my home pc they showed the 16 bottom, the top side without the cover, the top side with the cover and zip out, and on the trailer and with the 64 el camino

    here are the bottom shot and the top side shot with the cover and zip out the only thing I can prove on the 16 in this shot is it has a aq200 and it came before the red and white Tekniken's Magazine boat. the bottom on the 16 in these pics has long inner strakes the Tekniken's boat doesn't
    Attached Images Attached Images
    When the sky is grey,look out to sea.
    When the waves are high and the light is dying,
    well raise a glass and think of me...
    When I'm home again,
    boys, I'll be buying!

    My Ride

    Come Join Us on The Queen Of American Lakes



    Contact Us

    www.lgdonziclassic.com

  15. #120
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    Yep, I have all those photos. So do you think that this boat is the same boat that Brownie dragged up to the Jax boat show that Friday the 13th?
    .
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

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