Donzi 16 Timeline - The Boats Built During 1964

[Greg Guimond]

................. we know the white and blue is hull 3 with the new aq200

Matty, I told you this from the very beginning. My personal "1964 build time-line" write up (shown again below) also reflects that the Jacksonville show boat was probably the 3rd or 4th 16 Ski Sporter hull produced NOT the first. What did you find out there that forced you to agree with me? Can you post it up for all of us to share in?


November 15, 1964 - Living legend Allan Brown (now 81) as Sales Manager for the new Donzi Marine, brings Hull #4 (or 3) to the Jax boat show on 11/13/64 rigged with a Volvo/AQ200, the first 200 imported into the US market, but not the first Ski Sporter hull built as has been assumed by master blasters for decades. Boat is white with a blue deck stripe according to AB. No information on if it had a boot stripe or not.
Mr. K's team at Mercury (Bill Steele and Joe Swift) tries to bribe Brownie with money and ho's for a closer look at the brand new sandcast Aquamatic 200 technology at Lake X. Brown tells them to piss off.

[Greg Guimond]

Greg, have you also made provision for the 16 that was sent to Shepherd boats in Canada? We know early in 1965 a set of 16 moulds was sent from Florida and that they were preceded by a complete boat for evaluation (before the deal signing), sales and PR purposes. The boat was most likely a 1964 build.

No, I had no idea that this took place woobs so that adds to the number of hulls built. I know you have done real research on Shepherd. If you have any time stamps on the Ski Sporter 16 evaluation boat that Don A sent up to Canada that would be really interesting. It's raining down here for the next few days so no boating for me. I have completely neglected the Shepherd boys in my research over the past couple of years.

[Rob M]

No, I had no idea that this took place woobs so that adds to the number of hulls built. I know you have done real research on Shepherd. If you have any time stamps on the Ski Sporter 16 evaluation boat that Don A sent up to Canada that would be really interesting. It's raining down here for the next few days so no boating for me. I have completely neglected the Shepherd boys in my research over the past couple of years.

I spoke at length with a gentleman who had recently (re) purchased a Shepherd in Ontario. His story was that his boat was one of 3 boats built by Donzi but badged as Shepherds that were sent to Ontario at the same time for use in early promotional sales. I saw his boat - it was re-badged as Donzi and was consistent with an early build (no clam vents), thin lay-up etc. Woobs - you probably know the details on that story and can correct any potential inaccuracies in his story of three original Donzi built/Shepherd badged boats based on your own ongoing research of timelines. The past is murky....

[woobs]

Jim Hahn Jr. is the son of the former owner of Shepherd Boats from 1959 to 1972 when the company was sold to Trojan Yachts. Donzis were made here under license during this time. (1965 -1972)

While he is now located in British Columbia, the family (Jim & his sister) still maintain a cottage in Muskoka. Jim told me that all the Shepherd records from those dates are there. Further, he has the original contract between Donzi & Shepherd, receipts, bills and other documentation directly related to the Donzi partnership. I will be meeting him when he returns to Ontario to pick up the documents at the cottage.

At the January 1965 Toronto International Boat Show there was a Donzi Ski Sporter on display in the Shepherd booth. The "deal" had only just been done and Shepherd production would not be up and running at this time. I believe the moulds did not arrive until much closer to spring. I can without a doubt say 1 boat brought to Canada was a 1964 build. (The other 2 boats came at a later date and one was an 18). This TIBS show boat MAY be the boat Rob M refers to.

Shepherd Donzis were still Donzis and branded as such. They had a Shepherd logo on the hull side with Canadian and USA stickers. All fittings and hardware came from the Florida shop as did the moulds.



DonzibyShepherd.JPGShepherd Donzi logo.JPG
I do have another (and better) picture of a Donzi by Shepherd but, I'll have to find it. Also, it's not really relevant to this discussion.

[Rob M]

woobs, do you happen to have the specific dates in January '65 of the Toronto Boat Show? The 55th Annual National Motor Boat Show in NYC where there were two 16's displayed was January 15 through 24 of 1965.

Might be these dates....

[woobs]

My notes said January... and I have a picture with the caption of "preview of the international boat show" dated Jan 1 1965. I assumed it was just prior to the show opening like a VIP night. But, obviously I'm mistaken as Rob clearly shows the dates in February. One of the NY show boats could have easily shipped up for the Toronto show. That actually makes sense unless the NY boats were spoken for... and nobody is in a rush to stock a boat in January.

I have e-mailed the TIBS to see if they have any archived photos/document/programs from the 1965 show.

Copyright : © Keystone Pictures USA / Alamy Stock Photo
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[mattyboy]

woobs

pretty neat finding stuff like

[woobs]

pretty neat finding stuff like

I can't wait to dig through it all....

[mattyboy]

just a thought and maybe someone who works with gel can comment when shooting two color dark and light gel together don't they blurr or bleed a little on the borders of the two colors isn't that why Donzi used pinstriping on the deck stripes to hide it?

When and who (mfg'r) was the first to put contrasting gel colors together? two tone hulls come much later than 64 is it possible that all the early 16 left the hull one color white and got their color once they were out of the mold? If you are making all white 16s no need to number them they are all the same ?

could the two color gel have been done so well on the early boats that the talent or technique or materials at the start let them get a crisp clear line then later on they couldn't do it for lack of those three and needed pinstripes?? just a thought, Donzi did state all hulls wonder white in their sales literature for the 16


would it make sense that the stripes at the start were paint even the early solid dark color non white hulls which usually had a white or black stripe usually only black on the yellow and white on the solid blue green or red? some time 65-66 ish they start with white deck and solid hulls with a matching deck stripe.

what do we think is the earliest hull we know about (confirmed) with original condition defined an noted? is it Tomron's prototype?

[mattyboy]

as this discussion progresses it will also give us some info on not only the timeline but info on the construction methods and materials.

I have for the last 10 years or so have accumulated a ton of fact fiction and opinion on the various Donzi models thru either research or restoration.

I do recall early discussions here by people in the know that the first 25 boats or so were Eatons and all of the early boats were white.

Then as I go thru all the articles and records I see some things that jive or fit in place

This is not really in the 64 timeline but it does support the Popular Boating test at Dinner Key in one of the first 3 original demo boat that had 100s of hours.

At the 1965 Miami Boat show Feb 19-24 1965 at Dinner Key Brownie meets and gives a demo ride to S. Paul Jones of Ohio Valley Yacht Sales Inc.
Jones on Feb 24 writes to Allen ( he spelled Brownie's name wrong) that he has lost his info on the boats and wants replacement pricing lists and order forms. He plans to return to Fla in March to tour the Plant and deliver an order . He wants to know what power is available as he knows the longshoremen's strike has delayed delivery on Volvo engines. Now some of the early early discussion here make sense that Eaton could become a staple for power in a boat designed for a volvo. It also jives that the demo boat was running a lot at Dinner Key.

as said before the earliest hulls we know about that we can confirm or document will help this along.

here is the Teknikens boat which Tomron now is restoring this is one of the very few color pics of an early boat. this shows the first interior layout that I pointed out earlier with the white edges Note this is also a 4 piece interior not the later 5 piece interior there is no relief cut for the cover strut. This style interior also appears in the side by side Brownie Wynne pics which in turn also wind up in the Popular Boating test . these boats have no handrail.

Notice the nice crisp line edges on the red stripe but on a later two tone hull pinstripes are needed

[mattyboy]

Matty, I told you this from the very beginning. My personal "1964 build time-line" write up (shown again below) also reflects that the Jacksonville show boat was probably the 3rd or 4th 16 Ski Sporter hull produced NOT the first. What did you find out there that forced you to agree with me? Can you post it up for all of us to share in?

Greg cause you told me so and you must have that proof if you told me so , seriously I really Think Brownie is on the money there


I am of the belief that 3 hulls left the mold at around the same time the red one and the green one are run and tested while the blue one is getting fitted to take on the show tour so it gets a little more attention to details. could also mean they were waiting on an aq200 . or the side by side pics could have been taken not to shortly after the Jax show after they got a couple of the new aq200 . Brownie confirms the side by side pics are from 64 which makes sense in 65 Wynne and Aronow part ways. I also think that Fred's boat is an early one too without the rail and an aq100. Could Fred have bought the Mike A prototype test ride boat or vice versa Mike got a ride in it before fred got it?? it has the big DONZI on the side the earliest pictured hull I know of that has this style donzi on it ?

IF the timeline is proven to where over a dozen hulls are out in the world in 64 and a new franchise agreement with another boat builder is the works in the first 6 months of existence. I will gain a new admiration for Don's business saavy , tooling up to get the donzi script, interior and handrail all done in 64 quite a feat. the handrail which would be an ordered option in alum or SS and would have to be put on before the deck goes on.

Don was not really interested in production but more racing and development so the sale to Teleflex and the Shepard agreement make perfect sense in 65 . We know the big race boat was in the works and Don wasn't planning on giving it to anyone Formula or Donzi it would be another one of his startups . Going to really neat to hear the boardroom facts on the Shepard deal which has really not been explored.

another recollection I have is a discussion with Walt at the Dustoff we were talking to Dave Hartman of Hornet marine who gave Walt a picture of Walt and Dave's father in a race boat . Dave had one of the Hornet prototypes first one out of the mold he was having some issues he worked all night to get it to the docks the next morning . Walt said that brings back memories working all night to get a boat ready for a show. So I wouldn't be at all surprised if the NY or Toronto show boats were popped and finished in early Jan of 65 .

[mattyboy]

Woobs

it just occurred to me reviewing all these pics some info that might help with your project history the 16 you have is an early one the eaton boats had a water scupper pickup in the bottom of the hull on the starboard side of the centerline towards the rear check to see if there is any sign of it that, might help with getting an idea what year it is

[woobs]

...the eaton boats had a water scupper pickup in the bottom of the hull on the starboard side of the centerline towards the rear...

There is this... but it's on the port side?
DSC01398.jpg

[mattyboy]

All the ones I have seen where in the starboard side any sign this was a v drive?

[woobs]

All the ones I have seen where in the starboard side any sign this was a v drive?

Nope. not a V drive
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