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Thread: Donzi 16 Timeline - The Boats Built During 1964

  1. #76
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    from last week posted the pic on FB

    also it looks like the PB boating article used a pic taken during the aerial shoot that you posted after re-reading it and looking at all the pics now have to decide if the press boat with the dash stripe is the same boat as Wynne is driving during the side by side shoot with just a speedo added.

    there is also a possibility that Boat is also the first hull prototype updated after initial testing
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  2. #77
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    Gotcha. Do you think that Brownie's personal recollection of the hull at the Jax boat show being the 3rd or 4th 16 built is accurate, or are you doubting him?
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  3. #78
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    Never Doubt Brownie I think Brownie's recollection is ON THE MONEY ! as do I think Mike A's is as well , I think what happened to the prototype hull one is the aq110/100 was changed and gussied up to a 110 aq 200 after donzi received them . think the pic of the first two 16s is one the money as well but not as labeled not sure who did that , I think the red boat is the prototype hull one and the green boat is hull two but still needs to be confirmed


    ask your self why would the deck stripe go down the dash on one boat and not down on the other boat?
    When the sky is grey,look out to sea.
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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattyboy View Post
    Never Doubt Brownie I think Brownie's recollection is ON THE MONEY ! as do I think Mike A's is as well , I think what happened to the prototype hull one is the aq110/100 was changed and gussied up to a 110 aq 200 after donzi received them . think the pic of the first two 16s is one the money as well but not as labeled not sure who did that , I think the red boat is the prototype hull one and the green boat is hull two but still needs to be confirmed


    ask your self why would the deck stripe go down the dash on one boat and not down on the other boat?
    Well than there is a conundrum. You really need to find the date stamps on either the Press Kit shoot or the Wynne/Brown side by side arial photo. Better yet would be dates for both.

    Your press photo 16 hull has a red deck stripe correct? Brownie indicated that the Jax show boat had a blue deck stripe. How do you square that piece? Back then those 16 Ski Sporter's stripes were all done in the gel correct? Would have been a lot of work to re-gel an already built hull for the Jax show.
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Guimond View Post
    Well than there is a conundrum. You really need to find the date stamps on either the Press Kit shoot or the Wynne/Brown side by side arial photo. Better yet would be dates for both.

    no conundrum

    Your press photo 16 hull has a red deck stripe correct?

    no color has been established on the press boat

    Brownie indicated that the Jax show boat had a blue deck stripe. How do you square that piece? Back then those 16 Ski Sporter's stripes were all done in the gel correct?

    gel was standard but they did do a lot on the fly

    Would have been a lot of work to re-gel an already built hull for the Jax show.
    who says this is the jax boat show???


    how easy is it to paint a stripe on a 16 ?? there are some for sale here on this site right now that have painted stripes??


    think about it why would you put stripes on the prototype ?? it was going to be used for testing, a pattern for interior and everything else you need to launch a new model boat . how easy would it be to put red stripes on an all white 16 might even explain why the stripe goes thru the dash things that make you go ummmmmmm?

    I am not trying to find out the dates of the pics you posted someone must have proof that they are number 1 and 2 since they labeled the pic that way .
    When the sky is grey,look out to sea.
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  6. #81
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    sorry not sure why my answers wound up in the quote
    When the sky is grey,look out to sea.
    When the waves are high and the light is dying,
    well raise a glass and think of me...
    When I'm home again,
    boys, I'll be buying!

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  7. #82
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    my point in all of this is hull 1( the Mike A story prototype) and what Greg has labeled hull 2 the (Jim Wynne boat ) are the same boat after a quick re-fit making what Greg labeled 1 now 2 Then 3 is the Brownie Jax show 16 . now hitting MAAAAANNNNY MOOTAAAAAAA
    When the sky is grey,look out to sea.
    When the waves are high and the light is dying,
    well raise a glass and think of me...
    When I'm home again,
    boys, I'll be buying!

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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattyboy View Post
    ... the same boat after a quick re-fit ...
    That's an interesting theory. But, is there any evidence or proof of a refit other than visual differences that have been pointed out (that's not proof BTW)? Paperwork, stories from AB,MA,WW or others that were there maybe?

    I don't understand why a company manufacturing new boats would take the time to re-fit an old test prototype, as opposed to presenting the latest, greatest and newest of their builds in any type of showcase for media publication or public consumption.

    Greg, have you also made provision for the 16 that was sent to Shepherd boats in Canada? We know early in 1965 a set of 16 moulds was sent from Florida and that they were preceded by a complete boat for evaluation (before the deal signing), sales and PR purposes. The boat was most likely a 1964 build.
    Sean Conroy,
    1964 Formula Jr. (hull #2) project

    1972 Greavette Sunflash III
    1981 Kavalk Mistral project

    "A man can accomplish anything... as long as he doesn't care who gets the credit."

  9. #84
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    not a far stretch at all they did take older boats back and resell them and re fit them it was a common practice with consignment and demo boats



    the time line changes every day not a lot of supporting definitive documentation but more hypothesis than anything else . trying to nail down benchmarks with times and dates and the more I see no more than 6 boats popped before 1965 then all hell breaks loose
    When the sky is grey,look out to sea.
    When the waves are high and the light is dying,
    well raise a glass and think of me...
    When I'm home again,
    boys, I'll be buying!

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  10. #85
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    ok more info

    only the pics of the 2 16s is from 64 everything else is from 65 so the ads brochures and flyers have no place in the 1964 timeline.
    When the sky is grey,look out to sea.
    When the waves are high and the light is dying,
    well raise a glass and think of me...
    When I'm home again,
    boys, I'll be buying!

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  11. #86
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    I can see re-furbs and re-fits after they have been in business for a while (and for resale only)... just not a new company. I also can't see anyone putting a worked over boat in a magazine, Ad, or in a boat show.... they would use new.

    I tend to think Greg has a good line on this... 10 - ish boats.
    Sean Conroy,
    1964 Formula Jr. (hull #2) project

    1972 Greavette Sunflash III
    1981 Kavalk Mistral project

    "A man can accomplish anything... as long as he doesn't care who gets the credit."

  12. #87
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    the refit would be to remove the old 100 and put a new 200 drive on the boat when it became available an obiviously they were hard to get cause they made 1 or 2 with the old 100 in dec of 64
    When the sky is grey,look out to sea.
    When the waves are high and the light is dying,
    well raise a glass and think of me...
    When I'm home again,
    boys, I'll be buying!

    My Ride

    Come Join Us on The Queen Of American Lakes



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  13. #88
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    ...............................
    Quote Originally Posted by Brownie
    I showed the very first Volvo 200 drive on a 16' Donzi at the Jacksonville Boat Show in November 1964. Bill Steele and Joe Swift of Mercury offered me money and Ho's if I would swing by Lake X on the way home. No dice!




    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  14. #89
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    the first 3 production donzi from Pics and Brownie from 1964 you can put the first two in any order that you like

    white and red white and green white and blue all the colors that are available and published in 1965 we know the white and blue is hull 3 with the new aq200


    the white and green boat is a standard donzi deck stripe no boot stripe which is an option you picked the color out of the three available the stripe and interior matched it is equipped with an interceptor eaton combo and as such came with the interceptor dash plate. Brownie at the wheel

    the white and red boat is volvo powered ( as pictured it is an aq200 which I think was a repower to show case the new drive Woobs doesn't think so, this was done a lot with early boats when new more stronger power came by) Jim Wynne at the wheel it has the red stripe down thru the dash perhaps to make up for the lack of a dash plate provided by Volvo at the time, this boat has a speedo the pics of these two boats is also used in the Popular Boating test article.

    to bad the author of that article didn't describe the two test boats more completely colors and power options of both boats.

    the interior on all of these boats has square edges that are white where the sides that meet with the deck or hull are the same color white

    no grab rails on any of these no clamshell vents

    the white and blue is completed and taken to the Nov Jax show

    sometime after these 3, comes the white and red Teknikens boat which has the same type interior but only a deck stripe and the stripe doesn't go down thru the dash it has a volvo dash plate it also has single thru hull it is volvo aq200 powered it may have been a complete unpowered boat rigged and powered in Sweden when it got there then Fred Darwick's boat

    in May of 1965 delivery of a 16 is at 4 weeks at this time there are no unsold hulls and many have paid in full and not taken delivery of the boats, they are selling like hotcakes

    we know that production of the 16 can be done in as little as 5 days start to finish but that pace is later than 65 but the avg is 2-3 weeks when teleflex owns Donzi and man power is added .

    Also Donzi holds on to one or two of the first three as demo boats and are still around to appear in the 1965 sales brochures

    So if I bought a 16 at the NOV Jax show when do you think I would have gotten it?

    another thing to take into account the delivery of a Hornet or ST T in May of 65 was 12 weeks so the limited manpower at the factory also had to get a hornet built during this time when there are building 10-12 16 hulls and these are all new designs so there has to be a learning curve


    but again really can't document a lot of this without having the hull in front of you or a bill of sale
    When the sky is grey,look out to sea.
    When the waves are high and the light is dying,
    well raise a glass and think of me...
    When I'm home again,
    boys, I'll be buying!

    My Ride

    Come Join Us on The Queen Of American Lakes



    Contact Us

    www.lgdonziclassic.com

  15. #90
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    Actually, Woobs doesn't have a problem with a new drive going on a demo boat to update to current offering. The issue is with painting deck stripes, changing colours and re-furbing a demo boat for use in a boat show or photo shoot.

    In the "count" this confuses the issue of 2 separate boats being counted as one. Also nobody has accounted for the boat that went to Shepherd. I am looking into details from the Shepherd end. I have located the person that has all the records and am in the process of gaining access to them.

    Now, it's totally understandable that there is photographic record of the first couple of 1964 boats. However, there is no need to photo-document any others (Donzi had their press package and POS material) until, the next model year. In fact, if Fred Darwick did not win a race, chances are we would have no photo proof of this boat. So, my question is... how many more went out the door without photo proof?

    While I think Greg has done a stellar job of accounting for the "class of '64" this is all bits and bobs of fact connected with conjecture. I don't think you can accurately account for ALL the boats. If Greg says 12 and has missed the Shepherd boat, that's 13 and then I think there's probably more that have gone to regular, non racer, non friend of Aronow, non high profile people/potential dealers that actually bought a 16 Donzi.

    Given this uncertainty and the fact that there is no conclusive evidence one way or another, I'm happy with the GUESStimate of 10-12 boats +/- for 1964 production. Believe what you like... there's no proof.
    Sean Conroy,
    1964 Formula Jr. (hull #2) project

    1972 Greavette Sunflash III
    1981 Kavalk Mistral project

    "A man can accomplish anything... as long as he doesn't care who gets the credit."

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