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Thread: Donzi 16 Timeline - The Boats Built During 1964

  1. #76
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    Well, here is how I'm looking at it. If you believe Alan Brown is accurate in his recollection that the boat he was personally next to in the booth at the Jacksonville Boat Show on November 13, 1964 was ......

    a. Wonder White with a Christina Blue deck stripe
    b. The first AQ200 drive in the USA
    c. Probably the 3rd or 4th 16 Ski Sporter hull built

    than ...... the only way to further verify where the 16 with Lucan Red deck stripe Jim Wynn is driving (with the AQ 200 drive on the back) falls into my "64 Time Line" is to get a date on the same boat that is in the Black and White press photo shoot. Those two pictures are of the same boat and drive, correct? Brownie is pretty darn good with details but AGAIN the dude is 81 years old and we are asking him to remember something that occurred 50 years ago.

    Matty, did you find out about what date the press shoot occurred yet, or are you still working on that piece?

    Probably important factoid and if I missed that my apologies as I've been more interested in getting out on The Mule!

    ps: ran an OFX4 prop yesterday day. Traction and grip on that SS sucker was like my studded Hakka's. Absolutely epic in big water. But I digress .......again.

    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattyboy View Post
    showed Brownie the el camino pic from above an he said that is the Jax show boat but he used his Lincoln to get it there. So I would say they used the show boat for the press shoot the wonder white and blue stripes.

    I would also say that they knew with the success of the 233 that they needed multiple molds to maximize production. I would think they had 3-4 molds ready to go and it would make sense to pop 3 in all 3 colors red green and blue to start.

    If you read the Brownie bite I posted they knew the formula ( punn intended that's Brownie's joke gotta give credit where credit is due) win the races in the fall and sell the **** out of them in the next year just like they did with the 233. so in oct nov they gear up for the upcoming sales year get the pics have the brochures and flyers made but it is early they only list the winns of the wyn-mil II and only mention the volvo as power for the 16 in the original literature but then in 1965 they re work it to include the Donzi wins and Fred's wins in all the brochures. on the fly I suspect they used what ever power they could get their hands on

    also in thet Brownie bite he mentions getting the 200 at first was not easy between the start up of a new drive . plus I have to add the month long longshoremen's strike getting imports into the country was a much longer process than normal.
    Matty, I always find it good to go back through the thread from the start. In doing so, I have a question around the stuff I highlighted in yellow above. Did you contact Brownie just last week? Or is this something that Alan Brown conveyed to you many years ago when he was active on this forum? The wording is confusing. Thanks.
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  3. #78
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    from last week posted the pic on FB

    also it looks like the PB boating article used a pic taken during the aerial shoot that you posted after re-reading it and looking at all the pics now have to decide if the press boat with the dash stripe is the same boat as Wynne is driving during the side by side shoot with just a speedo added.

    there is also a possibility that Boat is also the first hull prototype updated after initial testing
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  4. #79
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    Gotcha. Do you think that Brownie's personal recollection of the hull at the Jax boat show being the 3rd or 4th 16 built is accurate, or are you doubting him?
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  5. #80
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    Never Doubt Brownie I think Brownie's recollection is ON THE MONEY ! as do I think Mike A's is as well , I think what happened to the prototype hull one is the aq110/100 was changed and gussied up to a 110 aq 200 after donzi received them . think the pic of the first two 16s is one the money as well but not as labeled not sure who did that , I think the red boat is the prototype hull one and the green boat is hull two but still needs to be confirmed


    ask your self why would the deck stripe go down the dash on one boat and not down on the other boat?
    When the sky is grey,look out to sea.
    When the waves are high and the light is dying,
    well raise a glass and think of me...
    When I'm home again,
    boys, I'll be buying!

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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattyboy View Post
    Never Doubt Brownie I think Brownie's recollection is ON THE MONEY ! as do I think Mike A's is as well , I think what happened to the prototype hull one is the aq110/100 was changed and gussied up to a 110 aq 200 after donzi received them . think the pic of the first two 16s is one the money as well but not as labeled not sure who did that , I think the red boat is the prototype hull one and the green boat is hull two but still needs to be confirmed


    ask your self why would the deck stripe go down the dash on one boat and not down on the other boat?
    Well than there is a conundrum. You really need to find the date stamps on either the Press Kit shoot or the Wynne/Brown side by side arial photo. Better yet would be dates for both.

    Your press photo 16 hull has a red deck stripe correct? Brownie indicated that the Jax show boat had a blue deck stripe. How do you square that piece? Back then those 16 Ski Sporter's stripes were all done in the gel correct? Would have been a lot of work to re-gel an already built hull for the Jax show.
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Guimond View Post
    Well than there is a conundrum. You really need to find the date stamps on either the Press Kit shoot or the Wynne/Brown side by side arial photo. Better yet would be dates for both.

    no conundrum

    Your press photo 16 hull has a red deck stripe correct?

    no color has been established on the press boat

    Brownie indicated that the Jax show boat had a blue deck stripe. How do you square that piece? Back then those 16 Ski Sporter's stripes were all done in the gel correct?

    gel was standard but they did do a lot on the fly

    Would have been a lot of work to re-gel an already built hull for the Jax show.
    who says this is the jax boat show???


    how easy is it to paint a stripe on a 16 ?? there are some for sale here on this site right now that have painted stripes??


    think about it why would you put stripes on the prototype ?? it was going to be used for testing, a pattern for interior and everything else you need to launch a new model boat . how easy would it be to put red stripes on an all white 16 might even explain why the stripe goes thru the dash things that make you go ummmmmmm?

    I am not trying to find out the dates of the pics you posted someone must have proof that they are number 1 and 2 since they labeled the pic that way .
    When the sky is grey,look out to sea.
    When the waves are high and the light is dying,
    well raise a glass and think of me...
    When I'm home again,
    boys, I'll be buying!

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  8. #83
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    sorry not sure why my answers wound up in the quote
    When the sky is grey,look out to sea.
    When the waves are high and the light is dying,
    well raise a glass and think of me...
    When I'm home again,
    boys, I'll be buying!

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  9. #84
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    my point in all of this is hull 1( the Mike A story prototype) and what Greg has labeled hull 2 the (Jim Wynne boat ) are the same boat after a quick re-fit making what Greg labeled 1 now 2 Then 3 is the Brownie Jax show 16 . now hitting MAAAAANNNNY MOOTAAAAAAA
    When the sky is grey,look out to sea.
    When the waves are high and the light is dying,
    well raise a glass and think of me...
    When I'm home again,
    boys, I'll be buying!

    My Ride

    Come Join Us on The Queen Of American Lakes



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  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattyboy View Post
    ... the same boat after a quick re-fit ...
    That's an interesting theory. But, is there any evidence or proof of a refit other than visual differences that have been pointed out (that's not proof BTW)? Paperwork, stories from AB,MA,WW or others that were there maybe?

    I don't understand why a company manufacturing new boats would take the time to re-fit an old test prototype, as opposed to presenting the latest, greatest and newest of their builds in any type of showcase for media publication or public consumption.

    Greg, have you also made provision for the 16 that was sent to Shepherd boats in Canada? We know early in 1965 a set of 16 moulds was sent from Florida and that they were preceded by a complete boat for evaluation (before the deal signing), sales and PR purposes. The boat was most likely a 1964 build.
    Sean Conroy,
    1965 Formula Jr. (hull #2) project

    1972 Greavette Sunflash IV

    "A man can accomplish anything... as long as he doesn't care who gets the credit."

  11. #86
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    not a far stretch at all they did take older boats back and resell them and re fit them it was a common practice with consignment and demo boats



    the time line changes every day not a lot of supporting definitive documentation but more hypothesis than anything else . trying to nail down benchmarks with times and dates and the more I see no more than 6 boats popped before 1965 then all hell breaks loose
    When the sky is grey,look out to sea.
    When the waves are high and the light is dying,
    well raise a glass and think of me...
    When I'm home again,
    boys, I'll be buying!

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  12. #87
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    ok more info

    only the pics of the 2 16s is from 64 everything else is from 65 so the ads brochures and flyers have no place in the 1964 timeline.
    When the sky is grey,look out to sea.
    When the waves are high and the light is dying,
    well raise a glass and think of me...
    When I'm home again,
    boys, I'll be buying!

    My Ride

    Come Join Us on The Queen Of American Lakes



    Contact Us

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  13. #88
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    I can see re-furbs and re-fits after they have been in business for a while (and for resale only)... just not a new company. I also can't see anyone putting a worked over boat in a magazine, Ad, or in a boat show.... they would use new.

    I tend to think Greg has a good line on this... 10 - ish boats.
    Sean Conroy,
    1965 Formula Jr. (hull #2) project

    1972 Greavette Sunflash IV

    "A man can accomplish anything... as long as he doesn't care who gets the credit."

  14. #89
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    the refit would be to remove the old 100 and put a new 200 drive on the boat when it became available an obiviously they were hard to get cause they made 1 or 2 with the old 100 in dec of 64
    When the sky is grey,look out to sea.
    When the waves are high and the light is dying,
    well raise a glass and think of me...
    When I'm home again,
    boys, I'll be buying!

    My Ride

    Come Join Us on The Queen Of American Lakes



    Contact Us

    www.lgdonziclassic.com

  15. #90
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    ...............................
    Quote Originally Posted by Brownie
    I showed the very first Volvo 200 drive on a 16' Donzi at the Jacksonville Boat Show in November 1964. Bill Steele and Joe Swift of Mercury offered me money and Ho's if I would swing by Lake X on the way home. No dice!




    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

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