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Thread: Donzi 16 Timeline - The Boats Built During 1964

  1. #481
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    The Shepherd/Donzis had both logos on the hull. So, technically not re-badged...

    It is my understanding that several boats came up from FLA but, not at the same time. First a 16 SS for the 1965 TIBS, later (summer '65) another 16 and finally an 18. The 16 moulds came up in the spring of 1965 and they were used (possibly the original moulds).

    The Canadian made Shepherd/Donzi 16's were always built according to the earliest layup schedule and to my knowledge not changed with the exception of some PVC stiffeners in the hatch that were perpendicular to the direction of the US made boats. Even when the US modified its procedures, Canadian production stayed the same. This consistent early build procedure may have been spelled out in the original license contract and not amended.

    I have little information on hull colours however, I do know that Shepherd made yellow boats in 1965. (one sold in 2013 down London, Ontario way) I'm hoping the box-o-records will shed light on all of this.
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    Sean Conroy,
    1964 Formula Jr. (hull #2) project

    1972 Greavette Sunflash III
    1981 Kavalk Mistral project

    "A man can accomplish anything... as long as he doesn't care who gets the credit."

  2. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob M View Post
    Here is a picture of "reportedly" the first Donzi/Shepherd hull in Canada. The story I was told was that there were 2-3 of these made by Donzi, shipped to Canada and re-badged as Shepherds for sales promo purposes, prior to the molds arriving for independent manufacture in Canada. the colour of the gel is original (Yellow). Hopefully you guys can decipher the validity of all that...
    Very interesting Rob. That yellow boat could prove to be a significant piece of the "1964 Build Timeline" puzzle once woobs sits down with Jim Hahn Jr to review the written documents from Shepherd Boats.

    My contact with the folks down here at the New York Show only ended up yielding this one photograph below, so not nearly the help I was hoping for
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  3. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Guimond View Post
    .While continuing to work some more on the Ski Sporter hulls that were at the New York Boat Show on January 13, 1965 I found this article on the show. Hmmmmmm, jet black.
    Quote Originally Posted by woobs View Post
    Does this also mean it was the only 16 at the show?
    I honestly don't know yet.

    It does add more controversial tidbits to deal with (for hulls 10, 11, 12) which I love because the bigger the Winter alligator, the more I like wrestling it. The comment about a Jet Black hull is something that I very loosely interpret as a "solid color" 16. Maybe it was solid blue & the dude was color blind as I've never once heard mention by the Elders on this forum any all black 16's. It certainly wasn't yellow like the Shepherd boat above.

    Things that make you say hmmmmmm. Going down to 5 degrees here tomorrow.
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  4. #484
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    RobM, correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember the "Shepard" shadow being much larger and more towards the center of the boat than it is in the other photos of Shepard Donzis.

    Wasn't it?

  5. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie O View Post
    RobM, correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember the "Shepard" shadow being much larger and more towards the center of the boat than it is in the other photos of Shepard Donzis.

    Wasn't it?
    I think it is in the same spot as in the first two photos. It is a big logo, just ahead of typical Donzi placement.

  6. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Guimond View Post
    I honestly don't know yet.

    It does add more controversial tidbits to deal with (for hulls 10, 11, 12) which I love because the bigger the Winter alligator, the more I like wrestling it. The comment about a Jet Black hull is something that I very loosely interpret as a "solid color" 16. Maybe it was solid blue & the dude was color blind as I've never once heard mention by the Elders on this forum any all black 16's. It certainly wasn't yellow like the Shepherd boat above.

    Things that make you say hmmmmmm. Going down to 5 degrees here tomorrow.
    I wonder if this early boat is black or Grumble Green?
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  7. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob M View Post
    I wonder if this early boat is black or Grumble Green?
    Interesting thought Rob. That picture is of Dr. Oskar Trost of Dusseldorf Germany.

    Trost was an extremely well known offshore racer during the entire 1960's decade and into the '70's. This guy was accomplished and comfortable racing all kinds of powerboats including Fino's' Chris Crafts and Bertrams. The photograph looks about as close to an all jet black Ski Sporter 16 as you could ask for BUT what little information exists on it claims the photo was shot in 1965 at Lake Constance. What makes no sense to me is why a high net worth German industrialist would need to drive south 6 hours to Lake Constance for weekend fun. Also, if the photo was taken in early 1965 why does the Ski Sporter not have a grab rail?

    During this thread I have tried to research if Dr. Trost was a Donzi dealer at some point similar to Robert Cox of Lauderdale Marina. Details are sketchy on that so far.
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  8. #488
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    I have also found it pretty interesting to lay down the Oskar Trost hull along side of the 1964 Fred Darwick 16 race hull. They both have very similar badging.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  9. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Guimond View Post
    .... Also, if the photo was taken in early 1965 why does the Ski Sporter not have a grab rail? ....
    I know you have done some research however, I believe the handrail was still an option in 1965 as evidenced by this order form and bill of sale for 16-136 (handrail listed as separate item and separate charge) both from July 1965.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Sean Conroy,
    1964 Formula Jr. (hull #2) project

    1972 Greavette Sunflash III
    1981 Kavalk Mistral project

    "A man can accomplish anything... as long as he doesn't care who gets the credit."

  10. #490
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    Greg, is this picture from the NYC show in January of 1965?

    An interesting photo clearly showing the white hull and a non white deck (possibly yellow?).
    Also, directly behind the subject boat it looks as though there is another 16 with a dark "freeboard" (possibly black?).

    If this is the case we see that:

    - There were 2 boats at the show.
    - Coloured decks were made in 1964.
    - Confirm existence of a black? (or at the very least dark) hull in 1964.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Sean Conroy,
    1964 Formula Jr. (hull #2) project

    1972 Greavette Sunflash III
    1981 Kavalk Mistral project

    "A man can accomplish anything... as long as he doesn't care who gets the credit."

  11. #491
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    Sean , that picture had me wondering as well. With all we've been told about what was at the '65 show I was expecting 2 solid white 16's with colored stripes on them .
    The 16 in the pic (is it a 16 and not an 18 ?) def has a colored deck and the bit of the bootstripe visible is yet a different color than the deck . And it has a grab rail .
    The hull in the rear is a 19 footer but seeing as there is no deck visible might it have been a St T ? The only color the Hornets came in would not have shown up as dark in a B and W photo as that one did . It looks more like it's a very dark blue or even black .

    Thus the question , is it really at the '65 show ?
    Just because something's old doesn't mean you throw it away !

  12. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by woobs View Post
    I know you have done some research however, I believe the handrail was still an option in 1965 as evidenced by this order form and bill of sale for 16-136 (handrail listed as separate item and separate charge) both from July 1965.
    Good catch woobs, I had forgotten that it was an option so that pushes the Trost hull further away from being a possible 1964 hull.
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  13. #493
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    Putting the 1964 16 Build List with my latest adjustments back up for reference.

    The question now that I have to add to the this thread is how do we square BOTH a solid yellow hull and a solid black hull? Were either of those built in 1964, time will tell.


    Hull 1. Original B+W Press Release boat – Photo shows the “long” inner strakes & Volvo drive. Mike Aronow writes of taking a test run with his Dad in KOTBR. Date of B+W photo unknown, but must be snapped after May 5, and before October 5, 1964
    100% Confirmed

    Hull 2. Teknikens Varld Magazine boat
    - White w/ Red deck stripe only. New "shortened" inner strakes & single thru hull exhaust in photo. No Grab Rail. Shipped to Volvo Sweden for tests which was likely hastened by the 10/1/64 Longshoremans strike
    100% Confirmed

    Hull 3. Frank Civitano Sr boat - Solid green w/ Red deck stripe. Frank's Dad was personal friends with Don A from construction. Boat was used for Summer of '64 in Southern NJ. Motor, drive and Deck Grab Rail Unknown. Photo lost in Superstorm Sandy
    50% - Definitely existed but still somewhat suspect as a 1964 build

    Hull 4. Jim Wynne driving boat - White w/ Red deck & red chine stripe. Speedo to right of helm. Inner strakes not clear but look to be "short" in photos. Drive ID'd as Volvo Aq200 Euro loaner. No Deck Grab Rail. Photos thought to be taken Sept/Oct '64
    100% Confirmed

    Hull 5. Allan Brown driving boat - White w/ Green deck stripe only - Ford Eaton 260 cu inch V8 165hp motor & Eaton flip up drive. No Deck Grab Rail. Again, color photo of both Brown and Wynne running side by side thought to be taken Sept/Oct 1964
    100% Confirmed

    Hull 6. Jacksonville Boat Show boat - White w/ Blue deck stripe thru dash & blue chine stripe. Brownie at show on 11/13/64. Shown in Four Page Color Brochure with El Camino, & on Travel-Lift. First Aq200 production drive in USA - No Deck Grab Rail
    100% Confirmed

    Hull 7. Bob Cox and Ed Joyce boat - No photo of hull at Lauderdale Marina found so far. Initially they raced a Formula 233 then became the first Donzi dealer in Florida. "Hot" Volvo 110/100 package. Deck Grab Rail unknown. ID provided by F. Darwick
    100% Confirmed

    Hull 8. Fred Darwick race boat - Invoice #67 dated 12/10/64 shows $3,095. Photo of hull marked with race #11 shows it as White w/ Green deck stripe & green chine stripe. "Hot" Volvo 110 (made 140hp) & special race Aq100 drive. No Deck Grab Rail
    100% Confirmed

    Hull 9. David Ray boat - White w/ Blue deck stripe. Initial power also "Hot" Volvo 110/100 package. Sold to David Ray directly by Don Aronow with Fred's help. Boat still exists in Merritt Island today under a different owner. Race AQ100 drive in storage.
    100% Confirmed

    Hull 10. New York Boat Show 16 – Color was white with a blue stripe. Show was Jan 13, 1965. Could it have then continued North to the Shepherd boys or was an entirely different (and additional) '64 hull shipped up to Canada? woobs asking TIBS
    100% Confirmed but was birth 12/31 or 1/2 ? Looks like January 2, 1965

    Hull 11. Second New York Boat Show 16 - Did it exist, get sold and sent South? Only Brownie would remember if there were two Ski Sporter’s in the booth next to the $8,000 green 19' Hornet. Bill Wishnik said Don Aronow was in booth w/ Allan Brown
    25% - More work to be done

    Hull 12. Canada Shepherd Ltd boat - Was it solid yellow? woobs has made contact with Jim Hahn Jr., whose Dad managed Shepherd Boats at this time. They'll meet to review old Donzi partnership papers that still exist for added clues sometime in 2016
    75% - All is now tied to review of the 50 year old papers

    Hull 13. All Black boat
    - Was this yet another totally different 16 or was the reporter calling it black when it was actually another dark color? Only one person in the world would know
    Not sure at all on this one. Curve ball.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  14. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by woobs View Post
    Greg, is this picture from the NYC show in January of 1965?
    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan's Cloud View Post
    ........ that picture had me wondering as well. Thus the question , is it really at the '65 show ?
    The answer is NO, the boat below it is not at the '65 show. I looked closer this morning at the clip and there is no snow in it visible outside the New York Coliseum on the UWS. Without snow, the photograph could not possibly have been taken at the January 14, 1965 National Powerboat Show because there was a blizzard that year confirmed in the article below. Interesting though that the stripe is not solid in the pic ...... but I digress.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  15. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Guimond View Post
    ... so that pushes the Trost hull further away from being a possible 1964 hull.
    How so? It neither confirms nor denies the possibility.
    What is the date of the first known use of the grab rail?
    Sean Conroy,
    1964 Formula Jr. (hull #2) project

    1972 Greavette Sunflash III
    1981 Kavalk Mistral project

    "A man can accomplish anything... as long as he doesn't care who gets the credit."

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