Donzi 16 Timeline - The Boats Built During 1964

[mattyboy]

Yep, I'm now thinking that Fred added the grab rail at some point after he won the first 9 hour. He painted the stripe so don't factor that in. The hull I pictured is the same hull and same Volvo set-up used in both the '65 and '66 race. Same boat. Now, what's interesting is that he took delivery of the boat in December without a grab rail which means that the grab rail was not yet available until a little after that, correct?

Does that mean that in order to be a 1964 Ski Sporter 16 you could NOT have a grab rail?

I don't know do you think they could add a grab rail with the deck on, getting to that part of the 16 is EXTREMELY difficult the only way I have seen anyone get a hand in there is to get in the bilge along side the motor. my 16 had glass tabs for lack of a better term more like an easter egg put in that area it was not possible to get there from the inside. the end rail and front supports not a problem but the support right in the front of the end rail brackets is a PITA


here is a pic of the rail supports on a 16 that support directly in front of the rear end rail brackets is almost impossible to reach with the deck on

[Greg Guimond]

.
I agree having owned several 16's that adding a grab rail would be a big f-in PITA to do. Having said that I guess anything could be done using a 7 year old to hold a nut. I've pressed our kids into duty on this stuff many times before. I once had our middle boy wedged in to my Ultra 23 when we were rigging it. It was hot as hell and he swelled up. I had to gingerly pull him out by his feet but we got him back out of there.

So this presents an interesting turn in the 1964 road. The first (3) boats built in 1964 don't have deck grab rails. Both Michael Aronow and Brownie comment on that. Brownie in fact says he was chucked out of a 16 twice because he did not have a rail to grab onto as a passenger.

1. White with Red deck stripe - Jim Wynne driving - No Deck Grab Rail
2. White with Green deck stripe - Alan Brown pictured driving - No Deck Grab Rail
3. Jacksonville Boat Show boat - White with Blue stripe. Show was 11/13/64 - No Deck Grab Rail
4. Sam Ballinger boat - Motor block casting date shows June, 29 1964 - Yes It Has a Deck Grab Rail
5. Frank Civitano solid green boat. Motor and drive as yet unknown. Deck Grab Rail Unknown
6. Bob Cox and Ed Joyce boat. Have not found photos yet. Deck Grab Rail Unknown
7. Fred Darwick race boat - "Special Hot Volvo" performance version and special race 100 lower unit. Invoice dated 12/10/1964. No Deck Grab Rail

[mattyboy]

Greg
Fred's boat is the number 11 boat in the pics no rail, painted boot stripe correct?? the boat 17 and 17 A pictured are different boats looks like Fred's painted boot stripe is missing on both and 17A has a grab rail

[mattyboy]

a little more on Ford casting numbers

time frames from block casting to final engine assembly at Ford were any where between 2 days and a week depending on the motor one thing that was happening in june of 64 Ford was asses and elbows getting 289s in the new ICONIC pony car the FORD MUSTANG. so the 260 windsor was approaching end of life

so a rough swag would be a block cast on June 29 1964 would reach final Ford assembly by July 4th

now one has to take another swag, on what the time frame would be Eaton ordering a motor delivery ( cross town in dearborne) then Eaton final assembly then Donzi order delivery( 188th st) and final installation.

[Greg Guimond]

Greg..........Fred's boat is the number 11 boat in the pics no rail, painted boot stripe correct?? the boat 17 and 17 A pictured are different boats looks like Fred's painted boot stripe is missing on both and 17A has a grab rail

No, not correct. The # 11 boat and the # 17 boat are the same hull.

[BUIZILLA]

a quick call to Fred would resolve the questions

he's easily reachable

[mattyboy]

No, not correct. The # 11 boat and the # 17 boat are the same hull.

so the boot stripe was removed sometime between jan 65 #11 has a boot stripe and jan 66 17 doesn't have a boot stripe

[Greg Guimond]

so the boot stripe was removed sometime between jan 65 #11 has a boot stripe and jan 66 17 doesn't have a boot stripe

Yes, that is exactly what Fred did. Fred and Judy raced the #11 boat and won there class in the 9 hour. Don A knew he would race it which is why he gave him a discount on the purchase of the boat. It had a green deck stripe and green boot stripe. Fred then campaigned the same exact boat in other races before removing the boot stripe and entering it into the January, 1966 race with the #17 on it. Many folks think the motor was the ticket to his success but the bigger part of the 16's winning ways in addition to Fred Darwick's pure driving ability was the Volvo 100 drive that he had. It was unique, different than other 100's.

I have several bits of data showing Darwick winning a variety of races with his Ski Sporter in my archive but that does not play a part in the 1964 build timeline as his first and only race in 1964 was the 9 hour. Ironically, when I researched that, it was actually run in 1965 as you will see if you re-read this thread from the start. January 2, 1965 to be exact.

Anyway, onward ................

[Greg Guimond]

What, if anything, does this picture tell us or add to the 1964 discovery?

[mattyboy]

What, if anything, does this picture tell us or add to the discovery?

from 1965

[Greg Guimond]

a little more on Ford casting numbers

time frames from block casting to final engine assembly at Ford were any where between 2 days and a week depending on the motor one thing that was happening in june of 64 Ford was asses and elbows getting 289s in the new ICONIC pony car the FORD MUSTANG. so the 260 windsor was approaching end of life

so a rough swag would be a block cast on June 29 1964 would reach final Ford assembly by July 4th

now one has to take another swag, on what the time frame would be Eaton ordering a motor delivery ( cross town in dearborne) then Eaton final assembly then Donzi order delivery( 188th st) and final installation.

So the motor in Sam B's 16 would have from July 4th to weave it's way into an installed, fully rigged, and running Ski Sporter. That's 6 months and pretty much guarantees that his boat IS a true 1964 build. Six months is a ton of time from casting birth to first test run through Government Cut.

1. White with Red deck stripe - Jim Wynne driving - No Deck Grab Rail
2. White with Green deck stripe - Alan Brown pictured driving - No Deck Grab Rail
3. Jacksonville Boat Show boat - White with Blue stripe. Show was 11/13/64 - No Deck Grab Rail
4. Sam Ballinger boat - Motor block casting date shows June, 29 1964 - Yes It Has a Deck Grab Rail
5. Frank Civitano solid green boat. Motor and drive as yet unknown. Deck Grab Rail Unknown
6. Bob Cox and Ed Joyce boat. Have not found photos yet. Deck Grab Rail Unknown
7. Fred Darwick race boat - "Special Hot Volvo" performance version and special race 100 lower unit. Invoice dated 12/10/1964. No Deck Grab Rail

[mattyboy]

So the motor in Sam B's 16 would have from July 4th to weave it's way into an installed, fully rigged, and running Ski Sporter. That's 6 months and pretty much guarantees that his boat IS a true 1964 build. Six months is a ton of time from casting birth to first test run through Government Cut.

it could be, but it is far from guaranteed from what I have seen on other forums it is very common that eaton motors were a year behind the boat model year they may have had large inventory on hand. it is an early one for sure from what I have seen and without knowing it's original configuration it may be tough to find a final place in the timeline . an eaton serial number would help track it down

[mattyboy]

more info on this pic from july 1965 Rudder test article on the 16 written and tested by Hank Bowman Hank at wheel Ed Joyce passenger ( Ed was referred to a test associate in this article) test location port everglades new 1965 16 still in break in period white boat no boot stripe one of the original color deck stripe red green or blue( bw pics so I can't tell) 165 hp 260 ci eaton interceptor grab rail original square two tone white/color interior.


some points of interest eaton must have had a large inventory of 260 motors Ford dropped the 260 in the 1964 model year so here we have proof of a 1964 block motor in a 1965 boat .

also this boat has the original style interior which means at whatever time the boat was produced in 1965 they had not made change to the monochrome round tuck and roll interior

On a sad note Hank was killed shortly after in the next running of the miami 9hr race ( 1966) leading to the kill switch rule.

[Greg Guimond]

Cool info Matty. Hank was a prolific writer it turns out. He covered almost all the well known events and was also very well respected as a very capable high speed pilot. His life ended far too soon and that race he was killed in was black flagged that day after the tragedy. The tethered "kill switch" was created the next week based on what people saw Hanks boat do to him. The following race weekend, factory boats all had kill switches installed.

Ed Joyce was a complete character and a lot younger than most of the guys he raced against (and with) back in that timeframe. He started as a mechanic at Bob Cox's newly created "Lauderdale Marine" (Donzi dealer in 1964) which is still in existence today with massive land holdings down there. Ed Joyce would go on to be GM of that operation for many years. He once ran a race boat of some sort from Florida to New York in friggin January. Guy must have had some serious cajones.

[Greg Guimond]

Now on some of the details. I think the grab rail is rapidly becoming a "key identifier" for the 1964 builds. I asked Fred Darwick about this and he said that his first 16 did NOT have one, but his second 16 did have a deck rail. If you look back at the photos I posted, both the #11 and #17 boats are the SAME boat. However, the A-17 it turns out is a different boat of Fred's but was built in 1965. If we couple that with Matty's comment about many Ford blocks being in stock it might push Sam Ballingers boat off the list of 1964 builds. I have Sam's contact info somewhere, I'll see if I can dig it up and ask him who bought his 16. If he has that, we may be able to get a serial number off the Eaton drive to get a manufacture date. Long shot, but I'll try.