Donzi 16 Timeline - The Boats Built During 1964

[Greg Guimond]

There was no point. I was just adding non 1964 junk just like you had in the post before me. One reason the '64 builds have never gotten wrestled to the ground is because there are always ad hoc distractions that take focus away. Matty, I know that you have a lot of true interest in this stuff so I'm going to give you a pass on your earlier comment. Just one pass though, thank you

Now back to the matter at hand. John Crouse was actually Don Aronow's PR Guy. When Sal M died, John was chosen to guard the treasure trove of race boat pictures Sal had taken. John, I believe, contracted alzheimers and before he passed away he chose a very well regarded individual to store the photos. Yes, I know who that is, but there is no sense in disclosing it because there will be no chance to review the collection which is in the 1,000's.

The thread with Frank C in it has zero to add btw other than Frank's comment about the green 1964. What is important is that there are very, very few people still alive who can add clarity to the first boats built in 1964. Knocky House's wife passed away last month for example. Frank C though is alive, and as you know far better than me he was deeply involved in Donzi for many years. He also holds a very unique connection to Don Aronow because Aronow created all his wealth initially as a residential home builder in New Jersey. Frank Civitano's father knew Don A personally as his Dad was also a builder in New Jersey at the same time. Some folks thought that Don A's murder was in some way connected to the New Jersey mob and Don's spectacular success as a builder. That was quickly shown to be false. He left New Jersey very quickly but totally square with the mob. I hold a useless connection to Don as I bought my first 16 in Sheepshead Bay where he was raised. He also (along with Doc Magoon) consulted on the rebuild of The Mule so that is why I decided to get in on the car motor '64 builds and set the record as straight as possible. Btw Doc Magoon gave the eulogy at Aronow's funeral so there is another guy you can talk to.

Frank Civitano Jr is probably 70'ish now and evidently has been a life long resident of southern New Jersey and a life long performance boating guy. In addition to his Pop's Grumble Green 16 he probably has a BUNCH of gems hidden away in his brain on '64 Donzi stuff. One thing for sure is he'll remember what drive was on the back. For the record, I personally believe 100% that what he comments on below is totally accurate. One big reason I believe it (well there actually is two) is that the heir to the Kleenex Tissue fortune, Jim Kimberly, was a guy who was in love with the color green. He was also a great friend of Don Aronow's in addition to being a skilled womanizer like Don.

I can easily see him saying ....... "Don, make one of those little guys Green just like my Hornet" with a Remy in one hand and a stacked blonde on the other.

My Dad new Don well back in the old days when he used to be a builder. I wish I still had our 1st Green and Red striped Donzi 16 that Don talked my father into buying in 1964. She wasn't the fastest, but it was only the 4th or 5th made. He was a fun guy, that I remember. I was only 14 and the last time I seen him was when I was 17.

[mattyboy]

There was no point. I was just adding non 1964 junk just like you had in the post before me. One reason the '64 builds have never gotten wrestled to the ground is because there are always ad hoc distractions that take focus away. Matty, I know that you have a lot of true interest in this stuff so I'm going to give you a pass on your earlier comment. Just one pass though, thank you

Now back to the matter at hand. John Crouse was actually Don Aronow's PR Guy. When Sal M died, John was chosen to guard the treasure trove of race boat pictures Sal had taken. John, I believe, contracted alzheimers and before he passed away he chose a very well regarded individual to store the photos. Yes, I know who that is, but there is no sense in disclosing it because there will be no chance to review the collection which is in the 1,000's.

The thread with Frank C in it has zero to add btw other than Frank's comment about the green 1964. What is important is that there are very, very few people still alive who can add clarity to the first boats built in 1964. Knocky House's wife passed away last month for example. Frank C though is alive, and as you know far better than me he was deeply involved in Donzi for many years. He also holds a very unique connection to Don Aronow because Aronow created all his wealth initially as a residential home builder in New Jersey. Frank Civitano's father knew Don A personally as his Dad was also a builder in New Jersey at the same time. Some folks thought that Don A's murder was in some way connected to the New Jersey mob and Don's spectacular success as a builder. That was quickly shown to be false. He left New Jersey very quickly but totally square with the mob. I hold a useless connection to Don as I bought my first 16 in Sheepshead Bay where he was raised. He also (along with Doc Magoon) consulted on the rebuild of The Mule so that is why I decided to get in on the car motor '64 builds and set the record as straight as possible. Btw Doc Magoon gave the eulogy at Aronow's funeral so there is another guy you can talk to.

Frank Civitano Jr is probably 70'ish now and evidently has been a life long resident of southern New Jersey and a life long performance boating guy. In addition to his Pop's Grumble Green 16 he probably has a BUNCH of gems hidden away in his brain on '64 Donzi stuff. One thing for sure is he'll remember what drive was on the back. For the record, I personally believe 100% that what he comments on below is totally accurate. One big reason I believe it (well there actually is two) is that the heir to the Kleenex Tissue fortune, Jim Kimberly, was a guy who was in love with the color green. He was also a great friend of Don Aronow's in addition to being a skilled womanizer like Don.

I can easily see him saying ....... "Don, make one of those little guys Green just like my Hornet" with a Remy in one hand and a stacked blonde on the other.

Greg the question still stands I would like to read the thread can you point me to the thread? sorry i thought the thread I posted with Mike may be relevant since that is the time frame we are looking at . gotta love being given tasks and passes

[Greg Guimond]

Sure thing and yes I like to delegate The title of the thread is "Who has met Don?" and it is from 2003 I believe and on this board.

[Greg Guimond]

Another event (Matty touched on this) and that plays a role in what power and drives were/could be used on the 1964 Dirty Dozen 16s is the International Longshoremen's Strike. That strike started on October 1, 1964 and involved 53,000 dock workers. It covered all the Eastern sea board ports and would go on for months. Fred Darwick asked for the new AQ200 drive for his race boat but Don A and Jim Wynne could not get him one even though Don knew that Fast Freddy was going to campaign the boat. Instead Fred and Judy had to use the AQ100 drive which were plentiful in the US.

[Morgan's Cloud]

Sure thing and yes I like to delegate The title of the thread is "Who has met Don?" and it is from 2003 I believe and on this board.

Ooh , ooh , (hand flies up in the air ) me , me . I did ! And went for a boat ride with him . Also met Jim Wynne and a few other notables too now that I think of it .

OK , back to your regular programming .

[mattyboy]

Another event (Matty touched on this) and that plays a role in what power and drives were/could be used on the 1964 Dirty Dozen 16s is the International Longshoremen's Strike. That strike started on October 1, 1964 and involved 53,000 dock workers. It covered all the Eastern sea board ports and would go on for months. Fred Darwick asked for the new AQ200 drive for his race boat but Don A and Jim Wynne could not get him one even though Don knew that Fast Freddy was going to campaign the boat. Instead Fred and Judy had to use the AQ100 drive which were plentiful in the US.

Looks like you have a pipeline to Fred

That is great info so Fred actually ordered his boat not bought a previously built model
Can he give a time frame from order to delivery
Also does he know of any older 16s selling at Mt Dora in the last 10-15 years

[Greg Guimond]

Looks like you have a pipeline to Fred. That is great info so Fred actually ordered his boat not bought a previously built model. Can he give a time frame from order to delivery. Also does he know of any older 16s selling at Mt Dora in the last 10-15 years

I have built up reasonable access to about 10 people on the 1964's. woobs has the Shepard clan all to himself. I am very selective on my questions to any of one of my contacts because to me it's interesting, to them it's annoying. We do know with 100% certainty that Fred Darwick took delivery of his 1964 16 Ski Sporter on December 10, 1964 and then promptly went and won the 9 Hour Championship on January 2, 1965. The Mt Dora question is not really relevant to the 1964 build timeline so that is for another thread. Now, on the "order to delivery" time frame, how would that help us? I'm not trying to be a wize guy but I already have a very firm grasp of the boats that were built in 1964. I'm close to formally calling them Greg's Dirty Dozen, but not quite there yet as I have two pieces of info being unearthed and boating keeps getting in my way.

[mattyboy]

I have built up reasonable access to about 10 people on the 1964's. woobs has the Shepard clan all to himself. I am very selective on my questions to any of one of my contacts because to me it's interesting, to them it's annoying. We do know with 100% certainty that Fred Darwick took delivery of his 1964 16 Ski Sporter on December 10, 1964 and then promptly went and won the 9 Hour Championship on January 2, 1965. The Mt Dora question is not really relevant to the 1964 build timeline so that is for another thread. Now, on the "order to delivery" time frame, how would that help us? I'm not trying to be a wize guy but I already have a very firm grasp of the boats that were built in 1964. I'm close to formally calling them Greg's Dirty Dozen, but not quite there yet as I have two pieces of info being unearthed and boating keeps getting in my way.

looking fwd to your findings

[woobs]

looking fwd to your findings

+1

[Greg Guimond]

looking fwd to your findings

+1

woobs, I may not have this correct but didn't you uncover that Don Aronow had built a grumble green 16 in '64 or am I mistaken?

[woobs]

Sorry Greg, not a fact from me...

[Greg Guimond]

Bummer woobs. Matty, are you able to access Walt Walters?

[mattyboy]

I have built up reasonable access to about 10 people on the 1964's. woobs has the Shepard clan all to himself. I am very selective on my questions to any of one of my contacts because to me it's interesting, to them it's annoying. We do know with 100% certainty that Fred Darwick took delivery of his 1964 16 Ski Sporter on December 10, 1964 and then promptly went and won the 9 Hour Championship on January 2, 1965. The Mt Dora question is not really relevant to the 1964 build timeline so that is for another thread. Now, on the "order to delivery" time frame, how would that help us? I'm not trying to be a wize guy but I already have a very firm grasp of the boats that were built in 1964. I'm close to formally calling them Greg's Dirty Dozen, but not quite there yet as I have two pieces of info being unearthed and boating keeps getting in my way.

Greg you don't think the order to delivery time doesn't play a big part if the production timeline of 64???? Really?

Ok I will take your word that the Dora boat has no part of the timeline you must have it in hand

[Greg Guimond]

Greg you don't think the order to delivery time doesn't play a big part if the production timeline of 64???? Really?

Ok I will take your word that the Dora boat has no part of the timeline you must have it in hand

Matty, as I said in my post I'm not trying to be a wize guy. Would you mind explaining how "order to delivery time" plays a part in 1964? I'd really appreciate it as I don't really understand ........yet

[mattyboy]

Matty, as I said in my post I'm not trying to be a wize guy. Would you mind explaining how "order to delivery time" plays a part in 1964? I'd really appreciate it as I don't really understand ........yet

It is simple I paid for a boat today when do I get my boat. This would give a benchmark for production time and also a ballpark on production capacity. In a previous post you mentioned that Fred asked for an aq200 on his 16 so he ordered his boat and didn't buy one off the lot so to speak. So you know when he got the boat any idea when he ordered it?

I would also think that a special order might take a bit longer

Judging by written reports Donzi had quite a back log to open up 65 with I would also think they had boats paid for in 64 that got delivered in 65