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Thread: Donzi 16 Timeline - The Boats Built During 1964

  1. #526
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    Here is a piece from the '60s that captures Aronow prior to his race boat success and before he built the first 12 Ski Sporter 16 hulls in 1964.
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    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  2. #527
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    Below is the article printed on January 30, 1965

    The New York Boat Show started on January 15, 1965 and concluded on Sunday January 24. According to the article below, the boat show in Baltimore started on Thursday, February 4th which was about the same time as Toronto International Boat Show


    The first day of the TIBS is Friday, February 5, 1965
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  3. #528
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    Meanwhile back in NYC, Brownie was offering instant Kingship status to anyone who would give him $8k ....................awesome
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  4. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by woobs View Post
    I have contacted the Toronto International Boat Show office and asked for access to their archives. They have agreed but, they are elbow deep in the 2016 TIBS show at the moment (and 2 other shows shortly after). I am assured they have some photographs (and possibly more) from the 1965 show.

    We'll see in a few months when the busy season is passed.
    woobs did you ever get a response from the TIBS folks? Any photos of the February 5, 1965 boat show? Below is the Official Program from 1965.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  5. #530
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    I did e-mail them again just about 2 weeks ago.......... silence.
    About time for another follow up
    Sean Conroy,
    1964 Formula Jr. (hull #2) project

    1972 Greavette Sunflash III
    1981 Kavalk Mistral project

    "A man can accomplish anything... as long as he doesn't care who gets the credit."

  6. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by woobs View Post
    I did e-mail them again just about 2 weeks ago.......... silence. About time for another follow up
    I doubt they have anything. I've also been surprised that there is almost no info out there on the 1965 TIBS Show. I suspect it does not play much of a role for 1964 Ski Sporter builds given a February 5, 1965 start day.

    In any event, Spring down here seems to have gone on strike so I've extended my thread cut off date. It was 28 degrees this morning That's just NOT right. While I wrap up the final count on 1964 Ski Sporters, which turns out to be more than the "Historian" and elders ever thought, I have to post this from the only guy left on the planet who actually was at Donzi in 1964. I've said Ken Burns wants to have a chat about a docu-drama. Paragraph and photo below courtesy of AB's series in PBN. Nice that he gives Walt the credit. Dude has an amazing memory, and a "one-of-a-kind" way with words .......


    "Aronow had commissioned Wynne and Walters (mostly Walters) to design some new boats, 16 through 35 feet, for a new company. He kept most of the crew from Formula to man the new company, which was to be called “Donzi”, a rude reference to Don’s sexuality. The crew included Dave Stirrat, Buddy Smith, Jake Trotter, Roy Farmer and secretary/lunch toy, Mary Ann Mossa. Don was forced to include our pal, Stu Jackson, in the sale of Formula, and Stu became the sales manager of the new company, Thunderbird/Formula. Lacking a sales manager for the new company, he made me a deal that I should have refused. I was General Manager of Challenger Marine, in North Miami, Fl. Challenger was the biggest Formula dealer, and one of the biggest Chris Craft, Boston Whaler and Johnson outboard dealers. We built small fiberglass boats, a 16’ outboard, and the Moth class sailboat. We had a manicured 7 1⁄2 acre marina that was kept spotless, and aspired to the highest ideals and morals of the boat industry. My background as an elementary school practice teacher and outboard mechanic made me perfectly suited to run the multi-million dollar company. Aronow asked me to join the new company in May, ’64, but Challenger owner, Dudley Whitman, was going surfing in Hawaii through August with his kids, and I agreed to stay until then. I worked the night shift at Donzi for free."
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    Attached Images Attached Images
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  7. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattyboy View Post
    probably went something along the lines of ....... phone call to sweden - hey we're having issues with hull 1 and the aq200 they brainstorm and say maybe it is disturbed water around the lower this leads them to shortened the strakes and as an added measure to make sure the new volvo exhaust integrated into the drive lower isn't causing the issue( the aq100 had a separate side unit for this) let the exhaust go thru the hull and plug and cap the exhaust openings ( as seen in the tekenkens pics). Hey Bjorn that worked ok Don can you send us a boat we want to study this.
    Quote Originally Posted by woobs View Post
    I read somewhere... that the real reason behind the shortened strakes was because these boats were not exactly overloaded with horsepower and the extra lift in the stern provided by the long full-length strakes combined with a lack of power to carry the bow resulted in an unbalanced boat. This situation caused a tendency to porpoise and bow steer and to compound the problem, was a dynamic issue that could not be solved with a static trim compromise setting on the drive. Further, a redesign of major balancing items was impractical (and ultimately, un-necessary). The "disturbed flow" was a rouse to keep the ever prying eyes of competitors (both racing and corporate) guessing just what Volvo and W-W designers were actually doing....because at this time, everybody watched what Don did.
    Quote Originally Posted by mattyboy View Post
    Woobs, I am going from what Walt told me . we were flipping thru a few of his drawings and I mentioned that I noticed a difference in Strake lengths on later versions of his designs. He said the Volvo didn't like the water coming off the longer inner strakes. the rework of the 16 into the 18 had full length strakes and when they rounded the bottom they had strakes that ended almost at the transom compared to the earlier 16 versions. this happened on the 16 and the hornet . The 18C and the 22C share the same strake layout the hornetII and III have longer strakes than my Hornet yet when the minx comes out it has short strakes like the 16?

    I'm still finalizing the journey a bit. Here is a picture of Fred Darwick's first 16 Ski Sporter. This is the hull that Fred took delivery of in December, 1964 and that has an invoice of December 10, 1964. This would mean it was built in November. The picture is one of the few remaining that CLEARLY shows the "short" inner lifting strakes. This particular hull is #7 in the timeline.

    I also will get photos this week of the 1964 hull still surviving in Florida. This is David D. Ray's Hull #8. It's probably the only 1964 build still in existence in the world I suspect.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  8. #533
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    I looked at the photos of the only surviving 1964 Ski Sporter 16 ........ Hull #8.

    Hull 8. David Ray boat - White w/ Blue deck stripe. Initial power also "Hot" Volvo 110/100 package. Sold to David Ray directly by Don Aronow with Fred's help. Boat still exists in Merritt Island today under a different owner. Race Aq100 drive in storage.
    100% Confirmed

    An exact measurement shows that the inner strakes actually start 53" forward of the transom. The blue deck stripe does not come down through the dash. This boat had the deck grab rail when produced new and still has it today. This would make it the first Ski Sporter ever delivered with the rail. Checking on a few other items as well.
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  9. #534
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    So in conclusion, there were (11) Ski Sporter 16's built by Donzi in 1964. Cool as it might have been I was never able to substantiate the "all black" hull that would have made it twelve.

    Eleven
    Eleven

    All but one are now in heaven
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  10. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by woobs View Post
    At this time I have no evidence to support three hulls coming to Canada at the same time in 1964. I was told about the first 16 coming up to be used for promotional work (starting with TIBS) and as a "guide" for building the boats once the moulds arrived. It is possible that more boats came up when the 18 was introduced.

    I'll know more when I get to sort through all the Shepherd paperwork.
    woobs did you ever meet up with these folks and figure out anything about the Shepherd 16s?
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  11. #536
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    ...........
    My most updated research list of the 16's built during 1964 ...............

    .............
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Guimond View Post

    Hull 1. Original B+W Press Release boat – Photo shows the “long” inner strakes & Volvo drive. Mike Aronow writes of taking a test run with his Dad in KOTBR. Date of B+W photo unknown, but must be snapped after May 5, and before October 5, 1964
    100% Confirmed

    Hull 2. Teknikens Varld Magazine boat - White w/ Red deck stripe only. New "shortened" inner strakes & single thru hull exhaust in photo. No Grab Rail. Shipped to Volvo Sweden for tests which was likely hastened by the 10/1/64 Longshoremans strike

    100% Confirmed

    Hull 3. Jim Wynne driving boat - White w/ Red deck & red chine stripe. Speedo to right of helm. Inner strakes not clear but look to be "short" in photos. Drive ID'd as Volvo Aq200 Euro loaner. No Deck Grab Rail. Photos thought to be taken Sept/Oct '64
    100% Confirmed

    Hull 4. Allan Brown driving boat - White w/ Green deck stripe only - Ford Eaton 260 cu inch V8 165hp motor & Eaton flip up drive. No Deck Grab Rail. Again, color photo of both Brown and Wynne running side by side thought to be taken Sept/Oct 1964
    100% Confirmed

    Hull 5. Jacksonville Boat Show boat - White w/ Blue deck stripe thru dash & blue chine stripe. Brownie at show on 11/13/64. Shown in Four Page Color Brochure with El Camino, & on Travel-Lift. First Aq200 production drive in USA - No Deck Grab Rail
    100% Confirmed

    Hull 6. Bob Cox and Ed Joyce boat - No photo of hull at Lauderdale Marina found so far. Initially they raced a Formula 233 then became the first Donzi dealer in Florida. "Hot" Volvo 110/100 package. Deck Grab Rail unknown. ID provided by F. Darwick
    100% Confirmed

    Hull 7. Fred Darwick race boat - Invoice #67 dated 12/10/64 shows $3,095. Photo of hull marked with race #11 shows it as White w/ Green deck stripe & green chine stripe. "Hot" Volvo 110 (made 140hp) & special race Aq100 drive. No Deck Grab Rail
    100% Confirmed

    Hull 8. David Ray boat - White w/ Blue deck stripe. Initial power also "Hot" Volvo 110/100 package. Sold to David Ray directly by Don Aronow with Fred's help. Boat still exists in Merritt Island today under a different owner. Race Aq100 drive in storage.
    100% Confirmed

    Hull 9. New York Boat Show 16 – Color was white with a blue stripe. Show was Jan 13, 1965. Could it have then continued North to the Shepherd boys or was an entirely different (and additional) '64 hull shipped up to Canada? woobs asking TIBS
    100% Confirmed

    Hull 10. Second New York Boat Show 16 - Did it exist, get sold and sent South? Only Brownie would remember if there were two Ski Sporter’s in the booth next to the $8,000 green 19' Hornet. Donzi had two booths at the show.
    90% - Brownie email last week recalls one or two and Scott Bolts says two

    Hull 11. Canada Shepherd Ltd boat - Was it solid yellow? woobs has made contact with Jim Hahn Jr., whose Dad managed Shepherd Boats at this time. They'll meet to review old Donzi partnership papers that still exist for added clues sometime in 2016
    50% - Pending review of the 50 year old cottage papers as TIBS show was a full month later than originally thought

    Hull 12. All Black boat - Was this yet another totally different 16 or was the reporter calling it black when it was actually another dark color? Only one person in the world would know
    25% - Only one article refers to the black hull. Looking for a second
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  12. #537
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    My contact (Jim Hahn) lives in Western Canada but, has a family cottage in Muskoka (where the paper are). I'll have to "catch" him when he has come to Ontario for holidays.

    I did follow up with the TIBS and they have no archives that far back as another company did the show then.
    Sean Conroy,
    1964 Formula Jr. (hull #2) project

    1972 Greavette Sunflash III
    1981 Kavalk Mistral project

    "A man can accomplish anything... as long as he doesn't care who gets the credit."

  13. #538
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    .......
    A confirmed 1964 date stamp of when Gross-Greenman Advertising took on PR duties for Don and the crew
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  14. #539
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    Gross-Greenman made other announcements when they brought on a new client so the November 5, 1964 data is fully legit.
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  15. #540
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    First Three 16's

    Quote Originally Posted by woobs View Post
    At this time I have no evidence to support three hulls coming to Canada at the same time in 1964. I was told about the first 16 coming up to be used for promotional work (starting with TIBS) and as a "guide" for building the boats once the moulds arrived.

    It is possible that more boats came up when the 18 was introduced.

    I'll know more when I get to sort through all the Shepherd paperwork.
    I was told that story about three 16s coming to Canada too. That was from the original owner - Richard Robinson who cottaged on Lake Roseau in Ontario.
    He sold me his 16, all red with white stripe with an Eaton outdrive. That was back in about 1977. I restored and re-powered the boat with a Volvo package.
    It seemed a little overpowered at the time when I almost lost my 1 year old son off the back on one of my grandstanding launches. That was in 1986. That
    winter I went to Fla and brought a new '87 Minx which has more freeboard - better to keeps the kids in the boat. I still have the Minx, but sold the 16 to
    Greg Swick and it is still around the Muskoka area.

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