Starter Removal Problem

[gcarter]

I recently posted I was unable to get the Testa Rossa engine started.
I mean the starter doesn't work. I was doubly frustrated because I
had a local auto electrical shop rebuild the starter, including a new
solenoid.
Recently, there have been several folks having similar problems, and
of course, the answer is always check the ground, the slave solenoid,
and the starter solenoid.
So, that''s what I've been doing. Finally, after checking the entire starting
circuit, I ran a #10 wire directly from the Switch post on the solenoid to
the positive post of the battery. No Joy! It barely makes a sound when
I touched the other end of the #10 wire to the positive post of the battery.
So, ......I tried to remove the solenoid, but while the outer of the two
bolts is easily removable, due to larger than normal shape of the Dart
block, the inner bolt isn't accessable w/the starter on the engine.
When I installed the starter, I unfortunately used the original hex head
bolts. While the inner bolt is easily accessible, and it is removed, the
outer bolt virtually touches the flywheel dust cover and I can't get a socket
on it. The position of the hex head of the bolt precludes me from getting
a good grip w/an end wrench (I tried).
I understand the solution to this whole problem is to use ARP small diameter
12 point bolts, and I've ordered some, but here I am w/a seemingly
unsolvable problem, short of removing the engine.
I really don't want to remove the engine again (although I really only
need to raise it about 12"), it's still not easy to do.
Any suggestions?

[Ed Donnelly]

Can you get thin wall sockets down south?
If not, I can ship you one..Ed

[Conquistador_del_mar]

George,
Can you die grind anything that would allow you to get a socket on it?

[mattyboy]

George have you tried to jump the starter directly with the starter cable to the battery + it's gonna spark so be careful

[hardcrab]

when I need a thin wall socket, a 1/4" drive will usually work. You need to get the Craftsman so you can swap 'em for new when you break 'em (because you shouldn't have used 1/4" drive) - start with a least one extra socket

[CHACHI]

George, what if you ground away say 45 degrees of the socket, open up a portion of the circumfrence of the socket.

Would that give you enough clearance against the dust shield?

Ken

[gcarter]

Ed suggested freezing the bolt w/liquid Nitrogen....but the bolt is about 4" long.
Also, grinding on an offset closed end wrench.
No more time today to try any of these ideas, including some vice grips which I couldn't get on the bolt head.
There're about 6 or 7 screws holding on the dust cover. The hard part is the screw heads are in from the back side of the flywheel cover. If I can get the dust cover off, there's no more problem.

[joseph m. hahnl]

George. Just take the flywheel shield cover off It's a pita but can be done

[BUIZILLA]

are you sure the starter is bad?

[gcarter]

are you sure the starter is bad?

Jim, I'm sure the solenoid is bad as it won't engage. I can't remove the inboard bolt of the solenoid w/it it on the engine.
The Dart block has extra material around the cylinders which eliminates any space between the two.

[DONZI]

The things to come to mind are you crossed the big terminal on starter to the inside toward engine terminal with jump wire or small screwdriver and no click with a fully charged batt..

Is it possible also the drive is stuck out and engaged and then you would rotate engine back forth manually at balancer to try and free then requiring starter shimming to prevent re- occurence.

Any way to trim shield back with air cut off tool ? Proably not enough room, so banging a 12 point thin wall socket on working upside down ain't fun either unless ya know a really skinny guy to get down under.

[gcarter]

The things to come to mind are you crossed the big terminal on starter to the inside toward engine terminal with jump wire or small screwdriver and no click with a fully charged batt..

Is it possible also the drive is stuck out and engaged and then you would rotate engine back forth manually at balancer to try and free then requiring starter shimming to prevent re- occurence.

Any way to trim shield back with air cut off tool ? Proably not enough room, so banging a 12 point thin wall socket on working upside down ain't fun either unless ya know a really skinny guy to get down under.

No, it's not engaged. It never had power to it until the other day. It hasn't engaged, or turned. New engine, and rebuilt starter.
I sure should have tried the starter before I installed it.
I ordered a high torque mini, should be here any time. I just have to get this one off.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

No, it's not engaged. It never had power to it until the other day. It hasn't engaged, or turned. New engine, and rebuilt starter.
I sure should have tried the starter before I installed it.
I ordered a high torque mini, should be here any time. I just have to get this one off.

Excellent! I was going to suggest a high torque mini starter, but I didn't know if they were made for marine use. I have used them in performance car engine setups with great results.

[mattyboy]

George my point was most starters get there ground from the block if the case is not making a good bond to the block like fresh paint in the way it ain't going to work not sure if the solenoid needs a ground to work but mine is bolted to the back of the bell housing
That's why I asked if touching the starter cable to the battery it should crank

[gcarter]

George my point was most starters get there ground from the block if the case is not making a good bond to the block like fresh paint in the way it ain't going to work not sure if the solenoid needs a ground to work but mine is bolted to the back of the bell housing
That's why I asked if touching the starter cable to the battery it should crank

Matty, that's a good point and this one did have a ground tied to a ground stud screwed into the block just in front of the starter.
The starter itself grounds to the block through the bare bolt holes and mounting bolts, but not the mounting face which is painted.