Boat Values

[Greg Guimond]

The #1 driving force to old, rare boats getting sold is the book of the month club. When you can't get a loan on them, they just sit way longer. When you can get a factory loan against a $100k wake board boat, they sell mostly because some guy can swallow $500 a month even though he should not really be buying a $100k toy.

[bertsboat]

www.bucvalu.com
You get three free look ups. There are lots of Donzi boats in there. Even the Fino is in there.
Hornets too.

[Sweet Cheekz]

For me, if I was looking at a Donzi and knew this board back when I bought them I would have asked honest opinions. I appreciate Scott or any other knowledgeble person giving me a second or even first opinion if I couldnt see it and would appreciate honesty. The fact is that pizzaz has a paintjob that a discerning buyer paying 40k for would want to know about from a professional. That person can still buy it with the knowledge that it may be an issue he or she has to fix down the road. In addition I think people that have specific knowledge of a particular Donzi they spent time in either restoring or driving or both would be a valuable tool for new buyers in the market. I can speak with some knowledge on the build quality of late 70's gt's and 16 classics and I can also give a fairly practiced opinion of setup and ride features. Cant comment on a bench seat or any other model I know nothing about.
Just my .02 Joesph. Not aimed at you just expounding a bit

Parnell

[Sweet Cheekz]

Old restored and very nice boats aren't moving because they are overvalued in comparison with what else is available in the market.

Interesting points in an interesting debate but this point is not always correct in my humble opinion. My boat is one example of a restored boat built far superior to a new boat in its class in every way with far more performance than what is available in the newer boat market. I think Todds point about price being irrelavant is basically that you have to have all cash to buy an older rare or restored Donzi. Price is relevant if you compare a newer boat with one of these restored Donzis even after taking the emotion out of it the potential buyer will find bargains over todays boats and he doesnt need to look far. He just needs money in the bank. Parnell

[Sweet Cheekz]

The #1 driving force to old, rare boats getting sold is the book of the month club. When you can't get a loan on them, they just sit way longer. When you can get a factory loan against a $100k wake board boat, they sell mostly because some guy can swallow $500 a month even though he should not really be buying a $100k toy.

Amen And best of all he finances it for 20 years and it looses 25% of its value the first year then turns up at an auction house two years later all beat up after the economy takes a dive. Exactly what happened in 2009.
I want a new Hatteras 64 gt but 100k down and 100k a month just doesnt fit my budget

[woobs]

Interesting points in an interesting debate but this point is not always correct in my humble opinion. My boat is one example of a restored boat built far superior to a new boat in its class in every way with far more performance than what is available in the newer boat market. I think Todds point about price being irrelavant is basically that you have to have all cash to buy an older rare or restored Donzi. Price is relevant if you compare a newer boat with one of these restored Donzis even after taking the emotion out of it the potential buyer will find bargains over todays boats and he doesnt need to look far. He just needs money in the bank. Parnell

Except this does not really apply to your beautiful GT 21 as it has been documented through it's entire restoration and any potential buyer will know the condition of every system up front. He can negotiate with confidence in that there's not another 15 - 20K worth of work hidden somewhere. So, there is a market for your restored boat.

Demographics have as much to do with the size of this market as anything. These performance boats appeal to a "younger" crowd or maybe "younger at heart" that may still be raising families etc.... I see plenty of disposable income amongst the "Velcro sneaker" set that is used in the purchase of restored wooden boats. There might be a few of us old farts that still want to own performance boats but not everyone wants more than 2 or3 .

(BTW: there's a good market on CC XK "plastic" boats because the woody guys know Chris Craft)

Personally, I don't finance anything (now that my mortgage is paid). If I don't have the scratch... I don't buy it. It does not mean that I will not convert one asset in order to acquire another one though. Sometimes it takes time. But, there's both money and people out there for a boat like yours!

Perhaps the recent ACBS ruling on "contemporary Classics" will help generate interests in the Donzi brand moving forward. As soon as that crowd learns and appreciates the history of the marque that small market will become a little less small.

[gcarter]

Interesting points in an interesting debate but this point is not always correct in my humble opinion. My boat is one example of a restored boat built far superior to a new boat in its class in every way with far more performance than what is available in the newer boat market. I think Todds point about price being irrelavant is basically that you have to have all cash to buy an older rare or restored Donzi. Price is relevant if you compare a newer boat with one of these restored Donzis even after taking the emotion out of it the potential buyer will find bargains over todays boats and he doesnt need to look far. He just needs money in the bank. Parnell

Amen to this Parnell.
Maybe some folks buy new boats/bikes/cars because they associate confidence and little maintenance to the fact it's new. Now, if the buyer has the cash, he could buy a better than new Donzi at a fraction of the price of a new Donzi by buying yours , or mine, for that matter.

[Greg Guimond]

Here is another example to spread the discussion beyond just Donzi's. This is a 1989 Hallett 240 Closed Bow. It is 100% stock and maintained with an open checkbook to like new condition including being kept inside a climate controlled garage by the owner. Has the proven 365hp 454 Magnum and B1 drive. Hallett has an outstanding reputation for build quality and the 240 is a tried and true hull design. It's a big 24 with an 8'4" beam. Closed Bow 240's are also hard to find as most were open bows. In addition, the gel colors are current for a 25 year old boat and the trailer is mint. The owner wants $30,000. If someone could finance the purchase it would be gone in a week but because you have to write a check for $30,000 who knows how long it will take. If you bought this boat new it would be over $100,000 with a non-blue motor.

[Greg Guimond]

Or maybe you are more inclined to have a lake boat with an OB. This 1984 Hondo is far better than new and a show winner. No book of the month club option so the guy has been sitting on it asking $15,000. This boat is 30 years old and has 30 hours of use. The upgrades done are pretty intense and of course expensive. It also has the rear jumper seats so it can seat 7. What will it end up selling for


Judged one of twenty best boats at the 2013 Needles Custom Car Show, 1984 Hondo "T-Deck" Pantera Outboard with 1984 Mercury 200HP Black Max engine. Boat and engine have approximately 30 hours of use. Hull is a custom layup with seven gel-coat colors , and gel-coated filled seam. The hull also features a reinforced (2 1/2 inches thick) transom, drivers foot operated recessed cavitation plates, drop thru turn fin, Mercury electric/hydraulic engine trim with control switches on steering wheel, stringer mounted custom gas peddle with adjustable throttle stop, stringer mounted custom instrument console with tach and engine trim gages, ignition switch, fuel tank selection lever and forward, neutral and reverse leaver, Interior Specialties back to back bucket and rear bench seats all color coordinated, two 10 gallon polished stainless steel Russell fuel tanks, all teflon stainless braided fuel, hydraulic, and bilge lines with polished SS reusable hose ends, custom heavy duty 6061-T6 polished and anodized aluminum engine bracket, all polished stainless fasteners used through boat and trailer, all aluminum is polished and black anodized 6061-T6. Hull rides on a gunmetal metallic gray custom Ellis trailer which features chrome fenders and floater bar, custom aluminum wheels, 4 new tires as of 2/2013, and a removable trailer tongue (for short garages). Custom pin striping and lettering by Steve Stanford. Boat is located in Tarzana, Ca. and ready to go. $15,000.00 (This boat/engine/trailer could not be purchased new today for twice the asking price) MUST SEE

[duckhunter]

We could post good deals on old boats all day long! It's not quite as dramatic now as it was four or five years ago though, especially with larger boats. There were ridiculous, pennies on the dollar deals for 40-60' FBSF convertibles all over the place. Production boats from Viking/Hatt/Cabo, etc and even quite a few customs. A guy with $100 or $150k cash money could have stolen his dream boat. Florida was a bit of a perfect storm, since so many big boats were financed with artificial equity in homes. When the housing market crashed people found themselves way upside-down in their house and a big boat (and big loan) hanging like an anchor around their neck. They dumped the boats in an effort to stop the bleeding.

It created a domino effect on the used boat market. Once the $500k+ boats started moving at $100k, a lot of the stuff at the bottom end of the market was being offered at $30k or less. Sometimes way less. Great opportunity to buy a "fixer upper" sportfish. Seems like some guys went in with eyes wide open and got good deals and fixed up some cool old hulls. Others got in way over their heads. Lower cost of entry doesn't correlate to a lower cost of ownership; usually it's the exact opposite. Talk about a pain factory - imagine owning a 50' hunk of fiberglass with big, stinky old diesels, old fuel tanks, a genset or two, and all of the usual plumbing/HVAC/electronics/brightwork/pipework. Big boats are eating money 24/7; not like you can hide that thing in your backyard while you save up for a new outboard. It's either in a slip or on the hard, both of which you're paying for by the foot. Ouch.

I guess my point is just to put it in perspective a little; we all piss away some money on our small boats. Beats the heck out of golf IMO, and it could be way worse!

[duckhunter]

Post the best deal you have currently run across on a 20 year old (or older) performance boat under 25' long DH.

I honestly don't watch that market very closely, other than what pops up on the various forums. Parnell's GT is my current benchmark in that size/price range. The best deals most likely never hit ebay/CL/Powerboat Listings/OSO/boattrader, etc, they sell by word-of-mouth to someone that knows the boat.

Here's a good FBSF example though, from the bottom of the market in 2010 or so. My buddy (of dh crew fame) found this in NC the day it hit the market for $45k. He went and checked it out and made an offer that was rejected. It percolated on the market for a few months, and all the sudden he had it under contract for $15k, subject to survey and sea trial. That turned out to be a lifesaver, because the stbd 8V71 melted down in epic fashion during the sea trial, while the mechanic was down in the engine room keeping an eye on things.

Our big plans to take a week to run it south to FL never happened. Now we joke about it, because if he'd bought a boat and had an engine take a dump running it home he'd probably be living on it now...

42' Post

DSC00832.jpgDSC00833.jpgDSC00843.jpgDSC00838.jpgDSC00848.jpg

[Greg Guimond]

I thought you would have bought a go-fast Warlock by now to replace your bowrider

[duckhunter]

I thought you would have bought a go-fast Warlock by now to replace your bowrider

I still dig the 23 MCOB! You had one posted on here with a 502 that really got the wheels turning. Sticking with the bowrider until I figure out what we're doing when we grow up. Sub 30' single diesel boats are calling to me as well...

Here's another solid deal that popped up on THT and sat on the market for a LONG time. Fairly rare 31 Tiara flybridge with lower helm and no salon; don't want to be stuck in a little cabin anyway, everything is happening in the cockpit. Perfect dayboat / weekender / mothership for the TN river. Crusader BBCs and A/C. It was up in the northeast (MA maybe?) and sold for around $16k. Third pic is of a sistership to give an idea of the layout. Neat boat.

31 Tiara anchored - Copy (2).jpg31 Tiara.jpg 31 Tiara cockpit.JPG

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Here is another example to spread the discussion beyond just Donzi's. This is a 1989 Hallett 240 Closed Bow. It is 100% stock and maintained with an open checkbook to like new condition including being kept inside a climate controlled garage by the owner. Has the proven 365hp 454 Magnum and B1 drive. Hallett has an outstanding reputation for build quality and the 240 is a tried and true hull design. It's a big 24 with an 8'4" beam. Closed Bow 240's are also hard to find as most were open bows. In addition, the gel colors are current for a 25 year old boat and the trailer is mint. The owner wants $30,000. If someone could finance the purchase it would be gone in a week but because you have to write a check for $30,000 who knows how long it will take. If you bought this boat new it would be over $100,000 with a non-blue motor.

Greg,
Would you please post a link to the yellow Hallett advertisement?

[Greg Guimond]

Greg, Would you please post a link to the yellow Hallett advertisement?

Not until I get a measurement on how many inches your TW 23's Bravo prop shaft is below the keel