Bench Seat Hornet Values??? Thoughts?

[Scott Pearson]

Just wondering what everyone's thoughts are on the value of these and what the market would bring. Now that Pzazz is on the market it makes me wonder. So I'm told that the asking price is $30,000+ on this particular boat and this could be interesting to see what it will actually will sell for. I looked over the boat thoroughly and have my own thoughts of whats it worth.

So if Pzazz goes for anywhere near the owners asking price then what is "The Sting" worth? Or Matty's Hornet? Or Bert's when its finished? Or "the Ultimate" Or "The Grinch"...just to name a few.

I know Bench Seats are a bit rare and sought after. However take the 73 2+3 Donzi in Maryland. I looked at this boat last year for a person who was not in the area and I have to say that its super clean, Solid and an original boat. Everything is original right down to the spark plug wires! At the time he would have taken around $12,000 for the boat. At the time I thought it was worth $9,000 all day long and he was offered that from the person I looked at it for and didn't accept. He is now at $9,800 a year later and it still hasn't sold. So whats it worth?

How about Wa-Lo? This is the first V-Drive 2+3 Hornet Built. Has a over $35,000 in the engine and drive train. Gel coat is amazing, interior, hardware, windshield etc are near perfect. And it has a custom trailer. So whats it worth? I would bet the entire package wouldn't get half of the price that is in the motor and drive train alone.

I have about $28,000 invested in my bench seat "The Ultimate" and those of you who know the boat its no where near being finished. It still needs Paint, Hardware re-chromed, Complete engine and drive line, Fuel tank etc...etc...etc. So I feel I will have another $30,000+ in the boat and that's not counting getting a trailer made...That's another $5,000-$6,000. So when its all finished I will have $62,000- $65,000 into this boat. And it will be an over the top V-drive Bench Seat Hornet! I would bet that I wouldn't be able to get $30,000 once its finished.

I think most of us understand what it takes to really make one of these old classics nice. And I don't mean a quick paint job and interior. Not that there is anything wrong with that. I mean that when you really...really tear them down to nothing and build them back up. The ones that do this know they will never get what they have into it back out.

So...If Pzazz goes for $30,000 then what is "The Sting" worth...$80,000? I'm just looking at it in perspective. Yes, I do understand that someone might buy a boat and just use it the way it is. But an original boat from 1968 is going to need money and time put into it at some point. And depending on how its used it could be sooner then later. Thoughts?

[Scott Pearson]

A Few More Pictures.

[mattyboy]

yes Scott
I'm sure everyone that owns one is very interested in what it's true value will be.

I purchased a some what very original one and the only reason I did is because it was very solid structurally and the fuel system had been addressed. It had none of the typical issues these boats have.

when looking at a 45 yr old I don't care if it was sealed in a vacuum since it rolled off the factory floor as soon as it is fueled up it is going to have fuel system issues with today's fuels. So originality is a doubled edged sword it may be near mint but will still have to be split and have the fuels system upgraded and to beef up the areas that will fail over time like the sagging seats. So this is not a spend 30k and enjoy for the next 40 yrs with a wax and a buff every now and then.

I think the person who knows that is looking for a lower entry point.

the motor may have some value but it has not really been holy grail as it once was thought.

I don't know anymore they don't seem as rare as they were they have popped up all over the globe lately and I would think that close to 20 of the original 50 or so are accounted for .

I love mine but if someone showed up in my driveway with 20k in cash I would hook it up for them. Pzazz is going to need another 4-5k on top of the purchase price for a trailer

[Just Say N20]

Ask Parnell. Or Buizilla who just listed his outboard. Anyone who looks at any three boats should buy any one immediately because from the standpoint of what has been done to them, they are the bargain of the century. But they aren't snapped up.

Those of us who have done a complete restoration as you say, did so because we wanted the boat done right. In the current market, you can not hope to get your money back, so that shouldn't be a consideration. Maybe someday these boats will become sought after like rare woodies or classic cars. But they are worth what someone is willing to pay.

Unfortunately many people assign a value to their boat based on what they think it's worth based on perhaps what they have into it, or it's originality, or for some emotional reason, or some combination of reasons. But in the end it's worth what someone will pay, which takes into consideration what else people could get for the same money in a non-Donzi boat.

Our boats bring in much more than most other old glass boats, which is good. But the costs to bring one back are so high, you will never recover it. We do it because we want to.

[Greg Guimond]

A lot of value with these types of things is determined by timing. You have to get the right person at the right time to unleash the extra emotional dollars. And getting both is always tough IMO.

[Greg Guimond]

Those of us who have done a complete restoration as you say, did so because we wanted the boat done right. In the current market, you can not hope to get your money back, so that shouldn't be a consideration.

With a boat, I don't think a top quality restoration ever breaks even in any market.

[Marlin275]

My father built a 37ft trimaran in 1963 and from what I have seen the boating market never goes up in value.
Sure there are a few exceptions but as an industry it does not happen.
A new boat depreciates from the day it is sold.
The elements, wear and tear all play their part.

[olredalert]

----Scott,,,Does the benchseat in question have a balsa cored hull??? If so, what is its condition?.......Bill S

[mattyboy]

I think the values of the benchseat are 75%-100% higher than a more common classic in like like condition. a skisporter in the same shape as Bert's project would be less than 2k.

Judging by that this boat would need to be in the mint condition Jay's 16 was with a new trailer new tank and all, near perfect gel/paint , interior and hardware.

[jl1962]

In a soft market like we're in, the weakest seller drives the market. Most recent sellers have some urgency and buyers have been conditioned to wait and wait and wait until the boat can be pried loose. While I agree w/ Marlin that owning and operating boats is not a very good for profit business model, at some point the psychology will change. Buyers will begin to feel some urgency and the nicer and/or more desirable models will begin to trade higher. I think there are some excellent values in the current used Donzi market and the orange Hornet in MD, Parnell's GT, Jim's O/B, Marshall's 22 are just a few examples.

I saw Pzazz on Wednesday when I was up on the lake and I have to say it was a lot nicer than I expected. It is not perfect, but it is no way a project boat. It is also nowhere near as nice as the Sting which should surprise no one. Actually Matty, it reminded me a lot of my old 16. It is an honest 46 year old, one owner, fresh water, well known, well documented, never abused, never molested, largely original classic Donzi. And like w/ my 16, it only takes one buyer. There is no urgency on the seller's side and until/unless that buyer steps up, we will likely be left w/ a large bid/ask spread.

Selfishly, I hope the boat goes to an appreciative owner who will keep the boat on LG so that I can see it, hear it and run with it for years to come. I've seen enough market cycles to know that while good times don't last forever, bad times don't either!


IMG_2140.JPG

[Scott Pearson]

Yes I have to agree that there are some amazing boats out there like Parnell's and of the sort for very fair prices. Look what your getting for the price of Parnell's...You could not build that boat for twice that.

I know most of us do it for the love of the Classics but its still needs to be a reasonable price. If you buy a boat for 30K that still needs 25-30K to really make do a proper restoration that seems a bit crazy. But like Greg said...You need the right person.

With that said it will depend on what type of boat it is. Its going to be alot harder to find someone who wants a V-Drive compared to a Stern Drive. I have 3 V-drive boats...I love them but its not an easy boat to maneuver around and you need to be extra careful in the shallow areas. It would be a sin if someone bought Pzazz and altered the boat for a Stern Drive.

All of these Hornets have some sort of coring or stringer/transom issues. If someone says theirs is all original and has no issues I would beg to differ. Remember these were never sealed up from the factory...Donzi just drilled holes and called it a day. They all have issues around the windsheild area. Remember that the coring was never saturated with resin. So it wicks water like a spong.(see the picture I attached of how far the water traveled from the windsheild bolt holes) All the BB Ford Hornets in the 60's that I have seen have had the stringers notched for some reason and never sealed off. Transoms are usually soft around the tiller arm on the V-drives. So if the water soaked in that area it made its way down to the lower rudder housing bolts.

[mattyboy]

Jay
You can't compare it to your boat in all fairness Your boat had a new tank and came with a trailer
It may not be a total resto but if it has the original tank in it it is a project boat cause that tank is a 700 poung gorilla whistling by the grave yard with one foot on a banana peel They are dropping like flies now any classic from that era with an original tank is on borrowed time

Honey bun is up for a tank replacement Kenny's cig gave no indications no fumes nothing until it put 40 gallons out the bilge onto the street and that tank was alum not steel

So a buyer must take that into account
Splitting a bench seat is a bit more of a project than a 16 or 18 you need 12-14 people to get the deck on and off
But if the feeling is 30k is the going rate for a boat that needs to be split. Think i will be drinking the good stuff tonite cause my driveway just increased in value

[jl1962]

But if the feeling is 30k is the going rate for a boat that needs to be split. Think i will be drinking the good stuff tonite cause my driveway just increased in value

I hope you will be!

Here's another way to look at it. Say the boat could be bought for 25K (I'm just picking a number), let's say the new owner puts 25K into it over the next several years. The boat doesn't need to be restored to like new (or better than new condition) - although that's up to the next owner!. After 10 wonderful years, the boat sells for 30K - again just assuming roughly stable values. It has cost roughly 2K/year to own a wonderful, iconic Donzi. BTW - a generic 19' I/O bowrider RENTS for almost $1700/WEEK!!!!!

I can rationalize almost anything! My own math on the Ski Sporter is the boat cost me about $1250/year for 8 years - the memories?

Priceless!

[Scott Pearson]

Good point jay. However we can only hope that that type of person you speak of has the funds to put the extra money into the boat over the years and Pzazz dosnt end up sitting behind someones house by the water uncovered roting into the dirt. That EXACTLY what happened to "the Ultimate".

So I hope whom ever ends up with this boat does it justice and has those type of funds. Or your going to get someone who blew everything they had on something they can't afford to keep.

[Greg Guimond]

Operating costs are not to be included. If anyone of us TRULY kept an excel file with EVERY cost over the time we owned are various boats the results would be so eye opening you'd take up cycling. I actually did take up cycle racing but it was to slow for me so after years I went back to writing checks and going fast.