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Thread: 1990 Team Warlock 23 Offshore - The Survivor

  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Guimond View Post
    I'm looking at your transom photo and not sure I follow. Are you saying that at dead level the trim tabs are not plum with the hulls running surface? From the picture below it almost looks like the planes are 1" or more ABOVE the hull but I can't really tell what's going.
    I'm sure it is a matter of how these k planes are made because when they are fully retracted (all the way up), the trailing edge of the tab is probably 4" or more above the bottom of the hull. The leading edge is about 1" above the bottom of the hull. If I get a chance I will take a picture to show the angle by holding a straight edge off the bottom of the hull. Out of curiosity, do you or anyone else know how standardized the transom angle is on boats? These k planes could be mounted on a transom with an incredible outwards angle and still not come close to touching water at cruise.

    1971 Donzi 18' 2+3
    1985 Eliminator 23' Daytona Offshore - Kevlar hull
    1988 23' Donzi CC F-23 with 250HP EFI Mercury OB
    1989 28' Team Warlock Offshore - single 548CID/600HP
    1990 23' Warlock Offshore - single 525HP
    Bill from Denison, TX - Lake Texoma

  2. #137
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    I should add that when someone mounts Bennett tabs, they can control the tab angle of the fully up position by where they mount the ram base that attaches to the transom. The k planes have the hydraulic rams already mounted to the tab and mounting plate so there is no way to adjust the angle of the fully up position - it is already determined by the construction of the assembly.

    1971 Donzi 18' 2+3
    1985 Eliminator 23' Daytona Offshore - Kevlar hull
    1988 23' Donzi CC F-23 with 250HP EFI Mercury OB
    1989 28' Team Warlock Offshore - single 548CID/600HP
    1990 23' Warlock Offshore - single 525HP
    Bill from Denison, TX - Lake Texoma

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conquistador_del_mar View Post
    I'm sure it is a matter of how these k planes are made because the leading edge is about 1" above the bottom of the hull.
    The transom angles were the same on every boat they built. The tabs that Keith put on that boat, while cool looking, are a complete misfit for that hull and the waters it ran in. Merc made a family of K-planes that are 12" long if I remember correctly. Find a used set and have a plug and play replacement. Now as to how your current tabs are mounted, I think there was a miscue there as well. Why on a fast, short hull would you mount the leading edge of the trim tab a full 1" above the hulls horizontal running surface? I would have thought 1/4" max.

    The other thing to consider is the depth of the drive which effects leverage, what is that prop shaft depth on your 23?
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Guimond View Post
    The transom angles were the same on every boat they built. The tabs that Keith put on that boat, while cool looking, are a complete misfit for that hull and the waters it ran in. Merc made a family of K-planes that are 12" long if I remember correctly. Find a used set and have a plug and play replacement. Now as to how your current tabs are mounted, I think there was a miscue there as well. Why on a fast, short hull would you mount the leading edge of the trim tab a full 1" above the hulls horizontal running surface? I would have thought 1/4" max.

    The other thing to consider is the depth of the drive which effects leverage, what is that prop shaft depth on your 23?
    Greg, don't get me wrong - I love the k planes on the 23' and they work like a champ! Warlock installed them when he bought the boat and I am only noting that they have to be brought down a little to even touch the water since the angle at fully up is so much - no big deal. I'll try to find where they are just off the water and leave the port tab there instead of all the way up. Most likely, the starboard tab will never get used.
    I have not measured the shaft depth on the 23' yet so I can't tell you. Did I mention that I love the boat recently?

    1971 Donzi 18' 2+3
    1985 Eliminator 23' Daytona Offshore - Kevlar hull
    1988 23' Donzi CC F-23 with 250HP EFI Mercury OB
    1989 28' Team Warlock Offshore - single 548CID/600HP
    1990 23' Warlock Offshore - single 525HP
    Bill from Denison, TX - Lake Texoma

  5. #140
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    I'm sure I will love it just as much when you tire of it and sell it to me Bill

    How long are the K planes that are on there? I'm not sure why they would have mounted them 1" above the hull
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  6. #141
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    I am almost sure these are the 280 k plane trim tabs. Without measuring them, I want to say they are 20" long.

    1971 Donzi 18' 2+3
    1985 Eliminator 23' Daytona Offshore - Kevlar hull
    1988 23' Donzi CC F-23 with 250HP EFI Mercury OB
    1989 28' Team Warlock Offshore - single 548CID/600HP
    1990 23' Warlock Offshore - single 525HP
    Bill from Denison, TX - Lake Texoma

  7. #142
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    The trim tabs on mine are mounted 1/4" above the hulls bottom. I would not want to change your mounting location on a perfect hull like that, but maybe as a fix you could add a piece of 1/2" thick stainless to the base of the Merc K Plane to make up the gap which is no doubt costing you speed up top. I would also use a round top ss bolt instead of counter sunk as that would relieve some of the surface tension and give you another 1 mph. You know you want to see 80mph on that GPS
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  8. #143
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    Team Warlock only used high end Bi and Tri directional glass cloth. They also used AME4000 resin. There layup has proven to be very good. Here is a quick blurb I found on the glass .............
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Guimond View Post
    The trim tabs on mine are mounted 1/4" above the hulls bottom. I would not want to change your mounting location on a perfect hull like that, but maybe as a fix you could add a piece of 1/2" thick stainless to the base of the Merc K Plane to make up the gap which is no doubt costing you speed up top. I would also use a round top ss bolt instead of counter sunk as that would relieve some of the surface tension and give you another 1 mph. You know you want to see 80mph on that GPS
    Greg,
    The k planes on the 23' work perfectly. Even though they are set a little high, it takes 1-2 seconds to make any necessary adjustment when running. Since they are relatively large, it does not take much tab to level the boat and I don't see any advantage to making any changes.
    On the other hand, I have decided to move the Bennett trim tabs on the 28' Warlock to the outside of the transom where they will be more effective and where they should have been mounted in the first place. I might even break down and install a set of longer Danas or K-planes, but I think the existing Bennett ST-16s will work effectively when moved out almost 12" on each side. Onwards.

    1971 Donzi 18' 2+3
    1985 Eliminator 23' Daytona Offshore - Kevlar hull
    1988 23' Donzi CC F-23 with 250HP EFI Mercury OB
    1989 28' Team Warlock Offshore - single 548CID/600HP
    1990 23' Warlock Offshore - single 525HP
    Bill from Denison, TX - Lake Texoma

  10. #145
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    Too bad you can't put the long K planes on the Team Warlock 28' where a longer/heavier tab would be of use. I have a set of small K's like these below. I think they are model "150S" that Merc only made for a few years.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  11. #146
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    The 10 yard x 54" roll of yacht cloth from Bill Sturgis at ARKO arrived yesterday ($230 with shipping). Apparently they call the color "graphite" which is appropriate. Sometime this coming winter, I will get a local upholsterer to redo everything except the engine cover which Keith had already done. I also will not have the front padding done since it is still like new.

    1971 Donzi 18' 2+3
    1985 Eliminator 23' Daytona Offshore - Kevlar hull
    1988 23' Donzi CC F-23 with 250HP EFI Mercury OB
    1989 28' Team Warlock Offshore - single 548CID/600HP
    1990 23' Warlock Offshore - single 525HP
    Bill from Denison, TX - Lake Texoma

  12. #147
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    Bill, that's an excellent price. A lot of cloth fabrics are more than that wholesale.
    Why is faster never fast enough.

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeller View Post
    Bill, that's an excellent price. A lot of cloth fabrics are more than that wholesale.
    He told me that retail was $26/yard, but sold it at $20/yard. Hopefully he made some decent money . I was just happy to get some matching material before it disappeared!! Before I made contact with Bill at ARKO, I had unsuccessfully tried to find some online - I quickly came to the conclusion that it is impossible to match colors and material online.

    1971 Donzi 18' 2+3
    1985 Eliminator 23' Daytona Offshore - Kevlar hull
    1988 23' Donzi CC F-23 with 250HP EFI Mercury OB
    1989 28' Team Warlock Offshore - single 548CID/600HP
    1990 23' Warlock Offshore - single 525HP
    Bill from Denison, TX - Lake Texoma

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Guimond View Post
    Too bad you can't put the long K planes on the Team Warlock 28' where a longer/heavier tab would be of use. I have a set of small K's like these below. I think they are model "150S" that Merc only made for a few years.
    Yesterday I made some quick measurements to make sure I can move the Bennetts to the outside of the transom on the 28' Warlock and miss the subflooring in the engine compartment. It looks like the only thing that has to be moved is the outdrive trim pump on the port side and possibly the Bennett pump on the starboard side - no big deal on either. Anyway, it looks feasible and they will be moved 11" to the outside which should make a huge difference in trim tab leverage . Onwards.

    1971 Donzi 18' 2+3
    1985 Eliminator 23' Daytona Offshore - Kevlar hull
    1988 23' Donzi CC F-23 with 250HP EFI Mercury OB
    1989 28' Team Warlock Offshore - single 548CID/600HP
    1990 23' Warlock Offshore - single 525HP
    Bill from Denison, TX - Lake Texoma

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conquistador_del_mar View Post
    I tried to contact Warlock or ARKO this week with no success on either -
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Guimond View Post
    I can give you the Arko info Bill.
    Quote Originally Posted by Conquistador_del_mar View Post
    I could not get a good working number for any of the ARKO dealers. I was trying to get with someone about the gray yacht cloth. Too hard to find a match online even though I tried that a month or so ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Guimond View Post
    Bill Sturgis actually owns Arko and yes they now only have the one location in LHC as they are stepping back a bit. Send an email to Venna Sturgis with a couple of high quality pictures and a description. If Venna doesn't help with the yacht cloth let me know and I'll give you Bill's cell.

    From: Venna Sturgis <lakehavasugma@gmail.com>
    Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 07:50:50
    To: Greg
    Subject: Re: Open Bow Conversion

    Bill would have no problem doing this job for you. Thank you, Venna
    Quote Originally Posted by Conquistador_del_mar View Post
    Thanks Greg. I just sent an email and I will probably call them later.
    Glad getting you in touch with ARKO worked. They are a wealth of old school information. Who else stocks marine burlap from 25 years ago.........Bill Sturgis does.
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

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