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Thread: My new motor locked up

  1. #1
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    My new motor locked up

    Well I had a 502 that I bought off craigslist in January. Finally I got it put in, did a cam break in, and started other testing and tuning. I was having problems with it idling and such. I had to get towed in twice. It was the second time that it locked up. Because it wasn't originally built for marine use, I was a bit skeptical about water reversion. One day after it shut down unexpectedly at the ramp, I pulled the boat out and pulled a manifold off. There was no sign of water reversion. Being quite happy about that I set out to fix some other ignition and starting issues. That took another week and I was delighted to have the boat out on the lake until it shut down at 2400 rpm. I tried to restart and heard metal slapping around so I figured I threw a rod. After that I contacted the builder and he agreed to take a look at it. I towed it down to his place 2 hrs away yesterday and he began to diagnose the issue. We pulled a manifold to get to the valve cover. Two pushrods dropped into the cam. We pulled the intake and saw the cam was grenaded. From that point I worked for a few hours to pull the drive and ultimately the motor. The builder isn't sure why it blew up. It had hardened pushrods and a hardened cam that was originally a Comp Cam and was reground. We are having more marine friendly cam ground for it now. It was at 108* LSA and we are putting the new one at 114* and going with 3/8s hardened pushrods. The heads are coming off and all the rod bearings will be checked. I'm pretty happy the guy is willing to fix it at his cost. He believes he can get the cam warrantied because it may not have hardened properly after the regrind. Fairly lucky for a craigslist purchase, but I sensed honesty in the guy while I was buying it otherwise I may not have gone through with it.

    The cam was 598 lift and 296 duration at 108 LSA. We are going to keep the big lift and duration and only change the LSA. The builder is confident the rest of the valvetrain will hold up to prolonged use and that it is well built with the best parts that will take it. 1.72 roller rockers are in it. It is a solid lifter flat tappet cam in a Gen VI 502 block. Apparently it has Gen V timing parts to accommodate for the difference in Gen VI and V cams.

    He will break in the cam with me and tune my carb and timing, which I am really happy about because I don't feel confident with my tuning skills.

    Lots of members have been really helpful, most notably Mr. Fixx. He has taken my calls at all times of the day, even while I'm troubleshooting at the boat launch. He was the one who finally got me idling well by changing plugs and gap and an overheat ignition module. He and Madpoodle are the nicest guys who have helped me. They haven't belittled my engine or skills like lots of guys do who try to get you to buy stuff from them or have them work on your boat. Carl C advised me to call these two from the start. And JayZ has helped me while he performs almost the same project, a 502 in a King Cobra boat. So big thanks to Mr. Fixx and the others who have helped out!

    It'll be a week before we get everything back together. I'll head back down and drop the motor in and go for a ride on the lake and see how it all goes.

    I'm not sure if we can balance the thing with the flywheel on it. Does it need to go to a machine shop for that?
    Top Gun 1992 22 Classic 540hp rebuilt HP500 King Cobra

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by miike View Post
    I'm not sure if we can balance the thing with the flywheel on it. Does it need to go to a machine shop for that?
    yes
    Sorry for you woes.
    A winner is just a loser that got up and did it one more time.
    1959 Biesemeyer - 4pt Hydro Drag - 2013 ACBS Winner - Best Race Boat
    1967 Nova Marine - SuperNova24 - ACBS Winner - 2012 Best Race Boat - 2016 Peoples Choice & Best Non Wood
    1972 John Allmand - Nova 19
    1972 John Allmand - Nova19 (#2)
    1982 PolarKraft -Jonboat - Crab Killer

  3. #3
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    sorry to hear about your troubles. reversion is not an issue at 2400rpm. sounds like maybe a bad cam and thats why it wouldnt idle but it could be a million things.

    hope you get it sorted.

  4. #4
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    This would be a good time to consider installing a roller cam. My two cents, Bill

    1971 Donzi 18' 2+3
    1985 Eliminator 23' Daytona Offshore - Kevlar hull
    1988 23' Donzi CC F-23 with 250HP EFI Mercury OB
    1989 28' Team Warlock Offshore - single 548CID/600HP
    1990 23' Warlock Offshore - single 525HP
    Bill from Denison, TX - Lake Texoma

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    Ya that's what I hear... Since the guy is fixing it for free and he's really proud of his solid lifter set up, I think I will keep it. I like the idea of solid lifters because it's old school and bad ass. Not sure if that had anything to do with it coming apart. Since I bought it that way, it's tough to ask for it to be changed, even though I'm positive it's getting new lifters.
    Top Gun 1992 22 Classic 540hp rebuilt HP500 King Cobra

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by miike View Post
    Ya that's what I hear... Since the guy is fixing it for free and he's really proud of his solid lifter set up, I think I will keep it. I like the idea of solid lifters because it's old school and bad ass. Not sure if that had anything to do with it coming apart. Since I bought it that way, it's tough to ask for it to be changed, even though I'm positive it's getting new lifters.
    I suppose you know that you can get solid lift roller cams, too - my 572s making 800+HP came with solid lift roller cams from the NASCAR engine builder. It would cost a little more, but you would not have to break in the cam with rollers. Anyway, good luck this next time around. Bill

    1971 Donzi 18' 2+3
    1985 Eliminator 23' Daytona Offshore - Kevlar hull
    1988 23' Donzi CC F-23 with 250HP EFI Mercury OB
    1989 28' Team Warlock Offshore - single 548CID/600HP
    1990 23' Warlock Offshore - single 525HP
    Bill from Denison, TX - Lake Texoma

  7. #7
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    the only reason to go with a solid in a BBC for marine use is extreme lift/racing rpm's and i dont think your there but maybe your are.

    pride can hurt you.


  8. #8
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    Lock up

    from a drag racer and part time builder. Depending on how hard it banged and locked up you may have some suspect stressed rods. Don't mean to scare you but a grenaded motor costs a lot more than a set of rods. I too would go with a solid lifter roller motor.

  9. #9
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    108* LSA / 296* duration in a wet exhaust marine engine?

    really?

    there is no power advanatge w h a t s o e v e r under 5500 rpm to justify solid flat tappets....

    since you have to get a new cam and lifters anyway, it just doesn't make logic to use a solid blank...

    this is 2013, not 1973..
    Charter Member - WAFNC, SBBR, KWOSG
    1955 Perfect Mate
    1986 Hornet III, 502-415 TRS

    www.donzi.org


  10. #10
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    What kind of oil are u using. Todays conventional oil has no zinc cause everything is roller. Solid flat tappet cams require oil with zinc for lubrication. I work in a high performance muscle car shop and we do not warranty any flat tappet motors because of todays oils. Seen cams wipe lobes shortly after break in due to lack of zinc. Just my .02.
    1999 16 Classic Black on White

  11. #11
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    Break in oil was valvoline conventional 20W-50 with comp cams break in oil

    Shortly after, oil change was valvoline conventional 20W-50 with STP additive that has zinc

    Cam didn't look so hot, even lobes that weren't hurt by pushrods had rough edges.
    Top Gun 1992 22 Classic 540hp rebuilt HP500 King Cobra

  12. #12
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    not saying this is what caused your woes but its easily checked. i would say its a 50% chance this or a soft cam.


    "One of the biggest causes of hydraulic/solid cam wipe-out is the cam being too far forward in the engine. There needs to be .010" or less end-play in the cam in the engine, and I have aimed towards to .006" or less mark.
    To see if this was your problem, look at your wiped-out cam.
    If there is still phosphate on the FRONT of the good cam lobes, about 1/10" or so, your cam had too much end play, it moved forward, and the lifters didn't have the proper amount of spin.
    The distributor gear on the cam will also show wear only on the back 3/4ths."

  13. #13
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    I recommend you use Brad Penn racing oil. Bummer about the mill, good that the guy is standing by his work. Hopefully you end up with an even better motor now. ...look at this as an opportunity.
    Jay Z.
    '93 White/Teal Classic 22

  14. #14
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    how did the pushrods damage the lobes?
    Charter Member - WAFNC, SBBR, KWOSG
    1955 Perfect Mate
    1986 Hornet III, 502-415 TRS

    www.donzi.org


  15. #15
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    Lightbulb

    IMO since the fellow seems like a prince add some $$ and get a proper roller setup, you will be way ahead in the long run. Flat tappet is risky no matter how you cut it, yes you can run $12-15 a quart oil but still will have shortened life. I hope he is doing a complete tear down, fine bits and pieces can migrate throughout the entire assembly.

    Phil
    No matter what your beliefs are "GOD BLESS AMERICA"

    Fully retired marine tech near 60 years in the biz.

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