single or double ram

[craigdskilling]

What does everone run on there boat.When do you go to double ram or single is it speed or the water you are running in,larg water or in lakes where the chop doesnt get to big.I'm not sure what to put on my drive.the boat could see 90+ mlp but i dont ride in big water to often.Also i dont think i will be in those high # to often i like 70.this is going on a blackhawk and a 18 donzi.I am looking at imco for the full hydraulic system.single is under 2000 and double is 3000.thanks craig.

[osur866]

I did dual on my 18, for the little extra cost of the other ram and the speeds you will see I'd go ahead and put the other ram on, if for nothing else it just looks better on the eyes as everything is more balanced, just my opinion. This is how I did mine with a dual ram Lathem system.

[craigdskilling]

Thanks Steve that looks great I think i am going to do the same.what distance are u from the side of the drive to your bracket of the ram.how do you now what length to order.

[osur866]

Mine where 9" rams, Ziegler makes a real nice system that a lot of Guys run and it can be mounted closer to the drive, others might chime in and show pics of their set ups, if you do a search on here there was many a threads on steering systems and installs, do the steering before or at the same time as the increased HP anything 70 and above and you really should have it to be safe, and once you have it you'll never wanna go back to cable assist anymore!

[Carl C]

I went with the Zeiger. They can sell you a complete kit with templates, drill guide, pre-cut hoses, block-off plate to cover the old dash holes and detailed instructions. If you request a 120 cc helm you will stay at 3 steering wheel turns lock to lock. The standard helm brings you up to 4 1/2 I think. Mine was about $3,800 complete almost 3 years ago. Customer support is great. Paul gave me his cell # if I needed to reach him.

[VetteLT193]

The prices you posted sound like half systems, be sure to check that out first so you know what you are getting. Usually Single ram full systems start at $2500, twin ram is in the $3500 area.

I think if I was running a Blackhawk and on a budget I'd rather a full system with one ram Vs. a half system with 2 rams. There is play in the cables running from the helm to the rams.

If you go single ram: my opinion is installation is key to making it perfect. Glass in a big backing plate on the inside where the ram mounts so there is no flex in the transom.

[gcarter]

As far as "needs" go, you only need a single. Dual cylinders are really only necessary on twin engines where you're experiencing twice the torque. The force generated by a single is well over the torque steer of the drive.
OTOH, most of us are like the owners of "cafe racer bikes" in that the necessity isn't what it's about. Most of it's about show, and would always install a dual system rather than a single.
the only down side to a single is, the the steering rate is different going from left to right.

[CHACHI]

Carl, fix the rubber cover on you circuit breaker.

Ken

[Carl C]

"Carl, fix the rubber cover on you circuit breaker."

You guys crack me up! I was ready for a comment on the garage in the background and you notice the loose circuit breaker cover. It's amazing that I never lost that thing because it kept ending up on the floor. Now it's glued to the dash with epoxy! Oh, and here is what the little garage looks like now:

[roadtrip se]

A double ram spreads the resistance across two pressure points.

A double ram gives rendundancy in the event of a failure.

A double ram will give tighter response at the wheel.

A double ram is not that much more money.

And, a blackhawk drive puts an exponential amount of additional pressure against the gimbal, over a deeper water drive system. Most prevelant failure point I have seen on blackhawk boats that I have inspected? Shaky gimbals.

I would double it up and never look back.

[craigdskilling]

Thanks for the response but is cpperformance the best place to buy from.should i wait to see if they have a boxing day sale or can anyone hook me up with a good deal on a double ram system.that would be great.or single ?????

[Pat McPherson]

Personally I'd go with dual ram and leave the cable helm to start if the you don't have the cash to go all the way.
My theory would be that the drive is going to be held steady regardless of the slop in the cable helm. I've also read the gimble can wear if the drive is only held from 1 side.
Yes, the wheel will move a little without the drive moving with the "add-on system"

I too have been thinking my boat should have at least an add-on external ram setup.

Question for Carl C:
Do you have any idea the distance from the edge of the gimble to the out side of the piston Mount on your setup?
My k-plans are real close to the gimble and I'm not sure if there is a system that will fit. When I was picking up the boat Dave had a template for a 9" Latham piston and it didn't fit.

[osur866]

Look on offshore only, there was a nice system on there for a dual bravo set up for $1500 could buy it sell off the 2 wing plates to help offset a wing plate for your BH which you prolly will not find used. Good luck, fwiw Ed Who has the system listed is a straight guy.

[Carl C]

"Question for Carl C:
Do you have any idea the distance from the edge of the gimble to the out side of the piston Mount on your setup?
My k-plans are real close to the gimble and I'm not sure if there is a system that will fit. When I was picking up the boat Dave had a template for a 9" Latham piston and it didn't fit."

6 5/8"

[VetteLT193]

[ QUOTE=$originalposter]Personally I'd go with dual ram and leave the cable helm to start if the you don't have the cash to go all the way.
My theory would be that the drive is going to be held steady regardless of the slop in the cable helm. I've also read the gimble can wear if the drive is only held from 1 side.
Yes, the wheel will move a little without the drive moving with the "add-on system"[/QUOTE]

I disagree. I have asked countless people "why" the gimbal is held better with two rams Vs. one and no one can answer the why part. People have the gut feeling that there is two rams so it's 'gotta be supported better' but no one has shown me any kind of math or logical explanation as to why it would be. With a single ram attached the end of the drive is held solid. Nothing about adding another ram makes the base of the drive where the gimbal is supported any better than if there is one ram when everything is bolted up.

Look at it this way... if you disconnect the drive from the gimbal but leave the rams attached, the drive will move back and forth regardless if you have two rams connected or one.

Don't get me wrong... Two rams comes with benefits and will be the best system but one ram is just fine and if you have a choice of going with a full system with one ram or a half system with two... The one ram will be solid from the helm back where you will have play with two and cable at the steering wheel.

The benefit of two rams is it's stronger (IMO a good idea on a boat running 90+). Two rams will also give you a better total failure safety... I the event your gimbal blows the two rams will hold the drive in a straighter position if hanging on its own. I can't say if this would truly help or not in that situation because the drive still is going to be dangling at that point. Two rams also gives you even steering right to left. This doesn't affect anything at speed but can be annoying if you want to keep your steering wheel centered. It's also nice that you don't have to do as much work reinforcing the transom. My brother's old 22 had single ram and was rock solid at any speed with zero play.... he had a large area where the ram mounted beefed up/glassed in. On most of the installs I have seen there isn't near enough attention to the mounting point(s)... if the plan is to use small backing blocks then then dual ram is simply easier to install because the load will be spread over two points. My boat is set up with the small backing blocks from Donzi so it is safe to say that it's the 'standard' install. I think that a single ram installed with this standard small backing block method is what's given them the bad name of having any play or being inferior to dual ram besides the points mentioned above.