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Thread: So, What's it worth?

  1. #1
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    So, What's it worth?

    I have a dilemma and I need some help…………….My five year restoration of the 22 Testa Rossa is nearly finished, and I’m wondering what today’s market would bear. I’ve been thinking about what a new Donzi 22C would cost, we’ve been told it would be in the $100K range, there’s another thread on the possible re-emergence of AMH and that a new 23 Baja Outlaw w/a SBC would be $100K w/a few options.
    I’m reminded of the early ‘90’s and the horrible, fortunately long departed, “Luxury Tax” was the law of the land, when even custom vans equipped for wheel chair operator owners were taxed an additional 35%, and the US boat industry was nearly put out of business. And how used boats suddenly became more valuable. I remember there was suddenly a large increase in value of rebuilt, restored cruisers and sport fishermen. Someone could buy a used cruiser or fishboat, have it re-powered, rebuilt exactly the way they wanted it, and end up w/maybe a better-than-new boat for a substantial savings.
    I’m wondering if there’s any parallel to “now” and the smaller performance boat market w/o any players, that could fill the void w/restored/rebuilt/re-powered older performance boats???????????
    I hope there is, because I’m way upside down in my project! I paid $11,500.00 for the boat, complete w/trailer, which was, I think, a fair price for a rare, low production Donzi 22C that was over 20 years old and untouched. Now, five years later, I have an additional $25-$30K in restoration materials, plus $8-$10K in a new built engine. I’ve tried not to look at the numbers lately. Nor have I thought much about the more than 2,000 hours I have invested in the boat.
    So, I’ll throw this open for discussion; in today’s market, what could I possibly get for it? I mean, some person who would like a “NEW” Donzi 22C, which doesn’t exist, and is hopefully willing to pay for the next best (or better) thing.
    George Carter
    Central Florida
    gcarter763@aol.com
    http://kineticocentralfl.com/


    “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid"
    Professor Ian Plimer, Adilaide and Melbourne Universities

  2. #2
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    Actually, I'm not asking for an actual asking price.....I'm really asking if anyone thinks there might be some validity to my reasoning.
    Let's hear some opinions!
    George Carter
    Central Florida
    gcarter763@aol.com
    http://kineticocentralfl.com/


    “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid"
    Professor Ian Plimer, Adilaide and Melbourne Universities

  3. #3
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    ----While everything you say makes sense to us guys (or at least to me) Im just not too sure how this will translate over to a non-Donzi.com group of buyers weather they like Donzis or not. I know what you have built and how you have built it and it knocks me over. With that said the monied masses may look toward far newer 22 Classics without putting in the time and effort to see and appreciate just what you have here. An auction venue (Mecum comes to mind) may be a way to get those who are interested all torqued up about what they are seeing first hand. Any of this make any sense???.......Bill S

  4. #4
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    Hmmm. Some nearly random thoughts...in no particular order.

    Your comments about the market make sense to me, to a point. Not sure I'd even try to expand on them.

    As for what your boat is worth, I think it's nearly all about the buyer. (Including the difficulty in financing any purchase nowadays.) There aren't many of what your're selling. For someone who wants that, what other options does he have that don't involve having his own buy and subsequent restoration done, with all the inherent uncertainties and all the wait.

    A 100k 23 Outlaw sounds like an 80k 16C to me. Meaning, I expect no one will buy one.

    We've seen Donzi recently offer up new 22s at 80k. Not sure they sold any at that price. We've also seen a 100+ mph one-of-a-kind custom Donzi 22 just sell. I think it was listed for about 90k, right? Not sure what it sold for, and I'm not asking if anyone knows, but I doubt it sold for more than the asking price. But it DID sell, and reasonably quickly. And that boat had a FAR smaller potential market than yours.

    Donzi being out of business, at least temporarily, should of course help your value. Demand should be outpacing supply, regardless of where each is today.

    Having the huge thread documenting the work should help a lot also. An informed buyer should be able to see something that looks perhaps better than new.

    I wouldn't be all that discouraged that you'd not gotten more nibbles up to now. People could see how much was going in, but the boat wasn't finished. I think one cannot overestimate that many serious boat buyers are thinking about taking it out the next weekend. So, if you're trying to move it, I'd say once it's splashed and running it might go a lot more quickly than you'd think.

    Maybe hold on for the price like you want and enjoy the fruits of all your work, just keeping it absolutely showroom. Then you can sell it as new, but broken in an dialed in, with public documentation of both. That's in some ways worth more than the gamble of the new boat.

    SWAG a number? With patience to find the right buyer I'd think something from $45k to $65k was possible.

    Don't know a lot about auctions. Might be perfect. But for cheap you can get huge exposure with nothing more than a boat trader ad and a craigslist ad.

    I also wonder how one reaches the yacht tender market. Pitched the right way, I could see it as a one-of-a-kind yacht toy/tender, with classic lines hardly seen today, and more speed/fun/style for less cost than lots of other options, even at $80k, which wouldn't make those folks even blink. (Is there an uber-red megayacht out there?)
    "I don't have time to get into it, but he went through a lot." -Pulp Fiction

  5. #5
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    Following your logic...

    George,

    Let me do a similar accounting to yours. I bought my boat new in 2001 for about $42K.

    In the second season, Jill had to have some surgery so I took her recovery time to rig the boat with a 500EFI, gauges, steering, shorty, and a few other things, for roughly $20K.

    Then, I put an aluminum Myco under it for $5K.

    Fast forward ten years, and the 500 needs a freshening. Send it to Potter for a short stroke job and have Brian Orlandi build out a custom cradle and offshore mounts, install a new HD transom assembly, a new drive, throttle, and a sea strainer. I also had a fiberglass guy strengthen the tub, wrap the stingers, and fix some stress cracking on the bottom. For rounding purposes, let’s say this exercise cost me about $25K.

    Then I soon realized the engine needed to breath better, since I wasn’t going the SC route, and I sent it back to Potter for heads, a compression bump, and a different intake. This one cost me about $12K.

    So, I am sure I am missing several other items that I have “invested” in for this boat, like props for instance, but I am already at $104K for a twelve year old boat. Funny thing, in Chattanooga, I had someone ask me what it would take to buy the boat in a serious manner, and I responded with a blank stare and told them it wasn’t for sale. I would have no idea what to ask for the Flowerpot, even if I was mildly interested in selling it. Nor is it for sale. But I would imagine it would bring something in the $40-45K range, if I left it intact.

    I don’t think looking at what you have invested in the boat in hard dollars, your sweat equity, or comparing it to other boats on the market, have anything to do with what the boat is worth. Just set your price at what you will take (and not choke on it if you get it) and remember, you typically can’t go up, but you can come down.

    Good luck with the sale.

  6. #6
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    George, your logic makes sense. The new boat production is flat, especially on something like Donzi's which fit the mold of semi-custom / limited production boats.

    For your boat the sky is the limit on the right buyer. You have also spent the money on things you can touch and feel right now Vs. past expense.

    22's right now seem to have gone up in price. I haven't seen any in the sub 15k range recently. I have also been trying to find a sweet 16 personally and there are no bargains to be had anymore. That can only help your situation.

  7. #7
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    I'd ask 42K and throw in some Donzi Hats
    http://www.donzi.net/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2807&dateline=1163742  168
    More Tab, More Tab, More...Damn

  8. #8
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    The hats would be a closer for me...

    I've given this one a little more thought...

    The case of the Ilmor boat. That boat was a steal at $84K. Reason? It had less than ten hours on it and breaks 100. Basically a new boat that breaks triple digits, and was built and tuned to handle the power and speed. One of a kind.

    To use the Flowerpot as an example again. It's a stock-looking, red Classic, that just happens to have some serious performance and handling enhancements built in, that cost big bucks. The boat handles like it is on rails at WOT, but I sincerely doubt anyone would give me much for what I put into her to make her do that. Period. Realistically, as I stated earlier, I would most likely get $45K out of a $100K+ investment, or less than 50%.

    Utilizing your numbers George. On the high side, you have invested $51,500, add some sweat equity at $10K, or a total of $61,500, take half of that and you are around $30K. Get it running and tuned to perform, and I am thinking you have the ability to sell a nice boat at $25-30K. And you can always try for more...

    I would keep it and run it for awhile. That's my plan for the Flowerpot.

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    Finding the right buyer is the key. Enjoy taking it to various boat shows and finding deep pockets that appreciate what you've built and it will sell. I could easily see getting all of your money back but I could also see where more than $50-$60k could reach some resistance, considering this vibrant economic recovery we're enjoying. Finding the right buyer could yield $75k. I would bet some of the wooden boat collectors would love what you built and would get their checkbook out. One of the Miami Heat players would love a classy red boat at their dock.

  10. #10
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    I keep looking at my receipts for my restoration project and the next thing I'm doing is getting a stiff drink.... Anyone who does this now better have a love for what there doing, have money to burn and in the long run you will be lucky to get 50 % out of it. It's not an smart investment as very few make money selling restored boats. Cars are the same now, as a friend who been restoring cars for 30 years says this is the worst year. Don't worry with Obama in the white house for another 4 years we'll all be broke .... so spend ,spend, and spend some more as the US in only 15 Trillion in Debt !!!

  11. #11
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    To add to what Stan, Todd, and Mike have already said, I stopped looking at the reciepts cuz I'd be sick either from seeing the # or the drinks I'd have adding those #'s up!!!! I went into my project knowing I wouldnt get but MAYBE 35 cents on every $ I put into it "IF" I decided to sell, which I don't!! I have prolly the most expensive 18 Classic out there and there is no way anyone in their right mind would give me close to what I have invested, so with that said, I use my boat and use it hard, 06' with 470 hrs. on the hr meter, I have no problem running it where others wouldn't I built it to enjoy and enjoy it I do, she's no lift/trailer queen and when I hear and feel the power pin me back in my chair it's all worth it, every penny and all the time also invested in making it what it is, it's not only a Donzi but it's my creation, like what many others have done to theirs. It's a illness and many here are all in the same nut house, I enjoy the company I keep!!!!
    2006 CLASSIC 18 WHIPPLED MX 6.2, BRAVO 1, STAINLESS MARINE EXHAUST, LATHAM STEERING, IMCO 2" SHORTY, LABBED MIRAGE PLUS

    TALK IS CHEAP, I'M FROM THE "SHOW ME STATE" SHOW ME

  12. #12
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    Cool Whatever someone will pay

    I agree with your reasoning George,and I think you would be the first to admit that by restoring these boats in today's economy,we are not in it to make money.Your Minx brought top dollar when the economy was ripe AND you found the right buyer.Fast forward to where you are with the testarossa where you have created a work of art,engineering,and mechanical equipment,an original 22 C could not compare with.I think you would definitely be in the 60K to 70K range dialed in and ready to go.Good Luck
    When it sells what's in store for the next project?????

  13. #13
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    Jim, truthfullhy, I've had it doin' this stuff. Particularly at my age and in this economy.

    I've had another idea......for awhile, I've been thinking about vintage bikes, a rod, or vintage sportscar!
    I'd definatefully entertain trades!

    NO Harleys or Corvettes.
    W/the right person, it might be interesting.
    I'd like to have a nice Vincent.
    George Carter
    Central Florida
    gcarter763@aol.com
    http://kineticocentralfl.com/


    “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid"
    Professor Ian Plimer, Adilaide and Melbourne Universities

  14. #14
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    I'm not going to throw out any numbers, mostly since you didn't ask for them, but the one thing that sticks out to me about this boat is that it is better than new. You have taken the time to hand-mold this boat in such a way that you have improved on the already superior technology and build quality of the original Donzi product.

    My $.02: If you don't HAVE to sell it, then wait on the right buyer and don't settle.
    1970 18 Classic-original

    "Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -Benjamin Franklin

  15. #15
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    [ QUOTE=$originalposter]{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]

    I'd like to have a nice Vincent.




    ............or perhaps a Brough?


    Ken

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