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Thread: 1989 Team Warlock 28' World Class Offshore

  1. #226
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    Once up on plane, it leans to the left all the way up in speed although less at 50MPH+. I definitely need some more seat time to figure out what is going on. My next time out I will probably be trying the Hydromotive 27LH to see if it takes care of the excessive lean. If it leans just as much to the right, I will be very surprised. I am used to a little lean in deep v hulls which I typically correct with a little tab - this seems excessive. It might be related to trimming out too much which does not really raise the bow on the Warlock like other deep v boats I have run?

    1971 Donzi 18' 2+3
    1985 Eliminator 23' Daytona Offshore - Kevlar hull
    1988 23' Donzi CC F-23 with 250HP EFI Mercury OB
    1989 28' Team Warlock Offshore - single 548CID/600HP
    1990 23' Warlock Offshore - single 525HP
    Bill from Denison, TX - Lake Texoma

  2. #227
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    I might know how to contact one of the glass guys that worked for Tom Stolarz laying up the Team Warlock's 25 years ago. I will try and reach out to him and see if he has any cloudy memories (smoked a lot of glass) that could shed light on your left hand leaning issue. Stolarz tooled the molds for the 23 and 28 Offshores from scratch. The 28's were a brand new design at the time.

    I know of the guy who has the first production 28 Offshore ever built. It is a 1987 HIN and located in Washington state. It has twins so no help for your leaning issue, but given his is a 1987 and yours is a 1989 any tweeks to the hulls bottom would have been sorted out two years later. His is the only 1987 28 I have ever seen.
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  3. #228
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    Until I test some more props, I think it could also be related to the IMCO Extreme drive itself or the bottom of the hull - I need more seat time. No matter what, I am going to get it dialed in since we really like the boat.
    I will be adding the second ram for dual ram external steering as soon as I get the parts from Ron at IMCO for added ease of steering (balanced system) and peace of mind with its additional strength.

    1971 Donzi 18' 2+3
    1985 Eliminator 23' Daytona Offshore - Kevlar hull
    1988 23' Donzi CC F-23 with 250HP EFI Mercury OB
    1989 28' Team Warlock Offshore - single 548CID/600HP
    1990 23' Warlock Offshore - single 525HP
    Bill from Denison, TX - Lake Texoma

  4. #229
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    I'm just thinking out loud here but my .02 ................

    I would eliminate the hull issue from the "what if" list as a priority. I believe that you have already run a 10' straight edge from the transom forward to the bow on the hull itself and seen less than 1/8" of daylight on each panel. I'm not sure how you are set up down there but if you have a payloader, I would strap the boat and lift it up off its float-on trailer as it is tough to get a good hull panel read given how much of the panel is obscured by the trailer bunks. Once you can really get under it, you'll want to check 20' of the running surface instead of 10'. Also, check just the strakes themselves. Are they true for 20' without any rocker or hook? These hulls have a fairly unique fine entry line with steep dead rise at the bow. They were designed to run a little flatter than most stuff they were competing with. That type of bow entry will tend to grab and lean more than a full entry bow. If there is something askew with a strake than that could be a part of your issue.

    My money says once you hoist the boat and can really get under it, you will take away a MAJOR variable that could drive you crazy. Eliminate one variable at a time, never two. Also take a pocket level to the strakes left to right to ensure they are dead flat 90 over there 3 or so inches of left to right depth on the back 15' of the hull.

    From hull and strakes we move to the drive itself for inspection. I can almost guarantee that you have the only TW 28 Offshore single in the world with an IMCO Extreme drive on it. I don't know jack chit about them and if they carry a substantial torque tab, blow out ring or what X they should be run at on an old school 24 degree straight V, never mind a 24 degree straight V that is designed to run a level attack angle.

    Are we having fun yet? I love a good science project.
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  5. #230
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    Also, just to clarify Bill, are you saying that when you nail the sticks from a dead stop and are using zero tab that it comes right up on plane with no lean? The listing to the left only starts to present itself once the hull "rolls over" onto plane after say the first 30-60 seconds of throttle nailing?
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  6. #231
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    In addition, as long as I am on my pulpit of pontification, have you ever done a "true" prop shaft to V measurement? I'm sure you have and I'm not telling you anything new given the many number of boats you have had but get the boat onto a flat surface, throw a level on the trailer and jack it till dead level. Go to the drive and trim it to nuts level as well, then take the measurement .......bottom of the V down to the middle of prop shaft. Curious how many inches that is exactly (3-4-5) as these hulls were set up for snub nosed early edition Bravo One drives.
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    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  7. #232
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    Greg,
    You have put some real thought into your posts! I will have to check those aspects of the hull, strakes, and prop shaft depth before answering anything. I can lift the boat at my shop, but the swim platform would have to be removed to use the transom lifting eyes. If I can get out tomorrow, I will get a better feel of how the hull is reacting at various speeds. I ended up borrowing a RH Hydro Q IV 26P since my friend told me the 27P was a repitched 26 and I wanted a stock prop to try out. He has quite a few sets of Hydros for his Fountain and is using a set of 29s now. One thing I don't remember posting is how the Warlock does not respond to drive trim like the other deep v hulls I have ever had. It does not raise the bow much at all when you trim out - it runs much flatter than other boats I have ever had. I might be trying to trim out too far? Anyway, I hope to run it Sunday afternoon if the weather permits. Unfortunately, there will be 6 of us in the boat so it might be a little heavy for any top end runs. At least I have only been changing the prop dynamics at this point to see if the leaning changes. Thanks for all your input.

    1971 Donzi 18' 2+3
    1985 Eliminator 23' Daytona Offshore - Kevlar hull
    1988 23' Donzi CC F-23 with 250HP EFI Mercury OB
    1989 28' Team Warlock Offshore - single 548CID/600HP
    1990 23' Warlock Offshore - single 525HP
    Bill from Denison, TX - Lake Texoma

  8. #233
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    The more I think on it the more I wonder how much the Imco Extreme drive shape is helping or hurting your leaning situation as well as carrying the bow. Major difference in overall housing shape, and the bullets are obviously night and day. Good luck with the prop testing today.

    It is simply not acceptable to have a Team Warlock 28 showing characteristics on the water lol.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  9. #234
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    I took out the Warlock on Sunday with 6 of us on board trying the RH 26P Hydromotive prop. Unfortunately, the steering shuddering was still going on after installing the new swivel pin and steering arm so it must be the control valve acting up which took out the last arm. Anyway, we did get to run it on up, and the leaning is still an issue and top end suffered (I could not get but 4700RPMs)- back to the drawing board.
    After talking to Ron at IMCO this afternoon, I ordered the extra ram to make it dual ram add on steering. We talked about the lean which he did not feel was a typical problem with the IMCO Extreme drives. I therefore, rechecked the hull bottom and found nothing but almost perfectly straight surfaces and strakes. The outside strakes do not even have any deflection - perfectly straight. The inside ones have less than 1/8" over the 8' straight edge. I leveled the boat and leveled the prop shaft to get the prop shaft centerline measurement. It is 5 1/4" from the bottom of the true V to the center of the prop shaft. I checked the trim gauge and saw that being perfectly straight from the bottom is where I have been trimming it to for my best speed - maybe even a little lower than perfectly straight since it will start to cavitate if I go up with the trim.
    Here is my gameplan. First I will get the steering system running properly. I will them try a LH Hydromotive Q IV 25P to see if the lean gets better by turning left followed by a smaller diameter RH Revolution 4 25P (highest pitch they make). I am not even going to try the new RH Cutting Edge 5 blade 27P since I am certain the lean would be even worse with it and it is probably too much pitch anyway. If these props do not solve the leaning problem, I will likely get a Bravo III XR lower foot if they make it with a low water pickup. Ron told me it will bolt right up to the Extreme upper. One way or the other, I will get the Warlock dialed in. Onwards, Bill

    1971 Donzi 18' 2+3
    1985 Eliminator 23' Daytona Offshore - Kevlar hull
    1988 23' Donzi CC F-23 with 250HP EFI Mercury OB
    1989 28' Team Warlock Offshore - single 548CID/600HP
    1990 23' Warlock Offshore - single 525HP
    Bill from Denison, TX - Lake Texoma

  10. #235
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    Bottom 100% flat - check
    Strakes 100% straight - check
    Hull - 100% off the table, as I kind of expected with a quality build.

    I lost sight of the steering and whether or not that could be a prime suspect. You might also ask Imco about a torque tab. Have they done them, would they suggest it.

    I also have a contact that runs the sister 23 Offshore with 680hp dyno'd. His GPS is 91-92mph and he is running a Spinelli 4 blade with a stock Bravo One that is coned. His Spinelli is below.
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    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conquistador_del_mar View Post
    I took out the Warlock on Sunday. I leveled the boat and leveled the prop shaft to get the prop shaft centerline measurement. It is 5 1/4" from the bottom of the true V to the center of the prop shaft. If these props do not solve the leaning problem, I will likely get a Bravo III XR lower foot if they make it with a low water pickup. Ron told me it will bolt right up to the Extreme upper. One way or the other, I will get the Warlock dialed in. Onwards, Bill
    The 23 Offshore running the Spinelli 4 blade at 91mph is running the stock Bravo One drive at 4.25" below the V. It has a cone, but uses the stock port and starboard side water inlets and gets plenty of pressure which is surprising. Both the 23 and 28 Offshores were actually designed to run fairly flat. While this reduces the top speed a bit it allows them to take on much rougher water than other hulls there size. Here are two photos of a 23. Notice pretty flat at high speeds.
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    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conquistador_del_mar View Post
    I would have known that Team Warlock used AME 4000 resin with bi and tri glass along with Divinycell in the sides. A well built boat for sure!
    I'm not sure if there are any "bare" areas of glass layup in the 28's but here is a shot of the bow in a '23 Offshore' with the factory upgrades of both AME4000 Resin and the costly Divinycell (located in Desoto Texas) foam core material along with a little description from the manufacturer. In 1989 Formula was just starting to use the technology in there hulls layup schedules so Team Warlock was ahead of the curve technically. I'm surprised that they would use the scored Divinycell core layer in the hull sides all the way up at the bow, but I guess they did from this picture.


    Divinycell, Klegecell, and ProBalsa are processed into flat sheets of varying thickness. In order to create parts with compound curves, the core material must fit to the curved mold. The core material can either be cut into smaller pieces or thermoformed to fit the curved mold. To facilitate the production of curved parts without the need for thermoforming, gridscored (GS) core material was developed. The scores allow the material to bend around curves more easily than plain material, without the need for thermoforming. There are several types of scored material available so the builder can choose the right product for his application.

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    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  13. #238
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    From the 1989 Formula brochure ............

    Formula’s superior exterior finish is achieved through the consistent use of high quality materials and by following layering procedures exactly.Divinycell® structural foam adds lightweight strength in specific areas as opposed to balsa construction that absorbs water when improperly applied, and Coremat® helps prevent surface print-through. By allowing a part to remain in its mold the ideal length of cure time, Formula avoids the foggy finish and surface distortion often observed in lesser quality boats.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  14. #239
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    Bill, I know you are planning to run your Team Warlock 28 this weekend with the LH Rev 4 prop. Notice how flat the 23 is running in this factory dealer brochure shot.
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    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  15. #240
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    You said flat - nothing flat about those models Actually, I am going to try the RH Rev 4 25P since I am a little worried about damaging the outdrive by turning left. The correct prop just showed up today after they had sent the wrong prop last week. Hopefully, the smaller diameter and pitch along with lack of a trailing exhaust ring flare will all add up to a great run. No matter what, I am betting the cruise will be really good.

    1971 Donzi 18' 2+3
    1985 Eliminator 23' Daytona Offshore - Kevlar hull
    1988 23' Donzi CC F-23 with 250HP EFI Mercury OB
    1989 28' Team Warlock Offshore - single 548CID/600HP
    1990 23' Warlock Offshore - single 525HP
    Bill from Denison, TX - Lake Texoma

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