Pros/Cons of FWC system on a classic?

[biggiefl]

I tried a search but no luck:

What would be the pros/cons for adding a FWC system on a 22c 454? I hear they run hotter so performance is robbed slightly. They also only cool the block I believe, the PS cooler, manifolds & risers are still RWC. I might be able to get a system off a 496 which should be the same or close, etc. I am in the Gulf in FL so water is warm and salty most of the year but my house is actually brackish and more on the fresh side.

[Ghost]

I think you will find both "half" and "whole" systems are available, that put antifreeze in the block only, or in both the block and manifolds, respectively.

I will say it is DEFINITELY better to get some form of FWC, especially in water with ANY salt. Probably better even exclusively in fresh. Easier to winterize, if you ever need to. And better for the engine to run a little warmer than pure raw-water motors often do, I am led to understand.

Only drawbacks I can think of are cost and weight, and maybe a tiny loss of power based on what you mentioned. But in all the discussions of power I have heard, FWC hasn't come up in my recollection. Do it.

Regards,

Mike

[zelatore]

*&%$# database errors! I had a nice long description of things typed up but once again the registry ate it!

Basically, there's no real reason NOT to run FWC.

The only con's I can think of:

space - a Classic doesn't have the biggest engine room to start with, so it will make it a little tighter
cost - it is an extra expense if you don't already have it
complexity - more stuff to fail

The Pros:
consistant engine temp = better combustion control
No salt water in the engine = better engine life!

There's a reason every new engine sold today has FWC standard!

A 'full' system runs antifreeze through the engine and the manifolds, then dumps the raw water into the exhaust at the elbows. A half system only runs the antifreeze through the engine and dumps the raw water into the manifolds.

All of them will have raw water in some part of the exhaust; it's just the nature of the beast. The only way around that is to go to a dry exhaust.

Now let's see if this will post...

[gcarter]

Actually, many engines run better w/a little more heat in them.
I had a San Juan "full" system an a SBC and it was very successful.
The 22C Testa Rossa I'm building now has a remote mount "Half" system.
Here's the link;
http://www.perfprotech.com/store/pro...-K1,66326.aspx

Here it is installed;
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthre...=50476&page=56
If you want to see more details, back up several pages.

[MOP]

No way would I be without it, it will add years to the life and it will run better and more efficiently. Think about how your car runs when it is cold, no question it runs much better when it warms up. Anyone who thinks they will loose power is not very knowledgeable, it is not just the corrosion issue that it does away with. The engine tolerances are more consistent, it does away with the moisture build up in the engine a know cause of valve spring breakage. It also does away with the higher water pressure in raw systems that over time raises cane with gaskets. No argument that many extreme engine builders run low temp setups, this is to ward off detonation not to make power this is mainly on supercharges engines.

[Walt. H.]

Everything Mop said and more, besides the corrosive perils of salt cold engines never make the hp a warm engine does or last as long.
Like everything else in this world moderation is the key, and throttling a cold engine is just as bad or worse as throttling a over-heated one and of course every experienced racer/engine builder knows an engine makes the most hp just before it seizes from heat.

[Fishermanjm]

I just installed a full system in my boat, temp runs at a constant 160 degrees, it was a fairly easy install. Monitor Products Inc. raw water in the risers only,,, the guys from this site made my mind up on the freshy system, very glad i did soo

[Lowflyn]

This is the system that I just purchased...
http://www.perfprotech.com/store/pro...08,196714.aspx

Solid, clean system and yes a 1/2 - not running injection, didn't see the need nor additional $$$.

My 454 in fresh or salt never got hotter than 125 degrees. I know the engine will perform better @140 to 160.....

When I broke down my engine - major rust throughout - may not have been from me because I flushed after every use - yet who knows what previous owners did...

Looking forward to getting boat back in the water...

[silverghost]

I do 95% of my boating in saltwater & my boat sits in saltwater constantly for six months.
I have been using Freshwater cooling heat exchangers since the mid 70s.
I would not own an engine without one .

[ANGUS]

FWC is a great thing if you keep the boat any length of time. BUT are you adding a system to an engine that already has a history in salt water w/o FWC? If so you may be aggravated by scale clogging the cooler, give some thought to how many hours or seasons it has clocked already if this is not a new engine. I am not a mechanic but I have seen this be a problem.

[MOP]

FWC is a great thing if you keep the boat any length of time. BUT are you adding a system to an engine that already has a history in salt water w/o FWC? If so you may be aggravated by scale clogging the cooler, give some thought to how many hours or seasons it has clocked already if this is not a new engine. I am not a mechanic but I have seen this be a problem.

You are quite right on the age issue, I found that old engines had more issues than newer ones. Most came through Ok with back flushing a time or two, one thing about any iron subjected to salt is as long as it is kept wet it does very well. Most salt mechanics will say it will wear out before it rots out, the major things that kill fresh or salt engines is over heating and head gaskets letting go. While closed cooling will not eliminate over heat issues it sure as heck will reduce the internal water pressure within the block, that will save tons of head/intake/riser gasket leaks that is worth its weight in GOLD!

[Phil S]

Gotta question on my new-to-me Z-25 with a full-closed system 454. From cold start it heats up to 160* and holds it. Run it up above 4000 rpm for about 10 minutes and it slowly starts climbing up to around 175...hold it there and will go to 185. Back out of it and it quickly drops to 160 again. Don't know the history on any heat exchanger maintenance, so I'm thinking it's overdue for that. Or is this just normal ?

Phil S.

[gcarter]

I suppose you could clean it. Or at least check it.
It costs nothing,
How old is it?

[MOP]

Gotta question on my new-to-me Z-25 with a full-closed system 454. From cold start it heats up to 160* and holds it. Run it up above 4000 rpm for about 10 minutes and it slowly starts climbing up to around 175...hold it there and will go to 185. Back out of it and it quickly drops to 160 again. Don't know the history on any heat exchanger maintenance, so I'm thinking it's overdue for that. Or is this just normal ?

Phil S.

Look at the whole! Water must be fed IE: good pump, water needs to get through the exchanger, but last and usually the cork in the system is risers they must let it out. You are describing a flow issue those are the areas that need exploring. If you are sure your pump is up to snuff next to check would be the risers, I have been at this for many years 90% of temp problems are related to pumps and risers. Heat exchangers can go many years without issues, most are simple to inspect. Pull the end caps, put a light at the other end and look through them. If they are clean they can do their job all they need is proper flow, always check the in's and out's first.

[zelatore]

MOP's on the money.

I had exactly that problem on a customer's boat earlier this year (Volvo 454 inboards). I put an I/R temp gun on the risers and you could watch one engine getting hotter than the other. He had plenty of flow from the raw water pump, but the elbows were full of rust/scale. Put on a new set and he was good to go.

I've cleaned plenty of heat exchangers over the years and it's simple/cheap so you might as well pop the end caps and give it a go. Just run a stiff wire or thin rod (some like a .22 rifle cleaning kit) through each hole. But to be honest, I've seldom found enough crud in the exchangers to make much of a problem. Elbows on the other hand are often crappy, especially on salt water boats. I tell people to expect to replace them every 5 to 10 years depending on use.