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Thread: Project input please

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Project input please

    I am a retired drag racer but always wanted a Donzi. Last summer I got a really nice 84 22 ft that I ran on big lakes and love it GPS at 67.2 and I don,t know what I am doing yet. However I want to build a go fast small lake boat for short fast joy rides. I am working with Jamie of Lakeside who will be doing most of the work. I have great confidence in his knowledge and he and I will be the "deciders". But I would appreciate ideas (no offense to Jamie) I just like learning.

    I am aquiring a 77 X18 hull with a TRS gimble and right hand steer stock tabs. I have a nice 406SBC I used in a race car. Great motor/H beam rods/pro one heads/steel crank/and more we will be pulling it apart and freshening with dish pistons to knock compression to about 10:1 max. Jamie will be working with the builder on a cam profile. It should come in at 600 HP. ANY THOUGHTS ON WHAT ELSE TO DO TO IT WHILE APART

    Thoghts on exhaust?????

    Drive I have heard from a TRS to a Bravo (more work) to a Konrad with some suggesting a Blackhawk. Money is an object. I am shooting for 85 MPH.
    Any thoughts????? This boat will be not be hit hard!!!!!!!

    Tabs/ ANY thoughts

    Jamie will be fitting it with hydraulic steering. ANY THOUGHTS

    Jamie if you see this I am simply curious as to what the Donzi world says.


    Any and all input is appreciated.

    PS the motor is equipped with an nos plate system and I will install a bottle but probably never use. I have experience with nos in drag cars/bikes/drag sleds. But probably just for looks.

  2. #2
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    Congrats Ralf...

    Your in Great hands with Jamie at Lakeside.. he is a sharp guy that has done pretty much everything on these from completes to testing what he sells.

    I still Race a Super Comp Dragster and Run Division 7 with Panella 565ci motors that are as you know extreme...

    One thing you must know is that the two aplications are very different .

    Drag motors are design to operate through a complete rpm range and dont see a sustained rpm there as they dont have a chance to have valvetrain harmonics that can wipe things out fairly quick.

    Marine Engines are designed with cam lobe centers and components built to withstand sustained contant rpm.

    So ....in short I like your Ideas but reality says. 91 octane fuel and steady rpm dictate the engine combo that will give you speed with longevity..

    That why 502ci make 415hp instead of 815hp.. Its sound like you got great stuff to work with and have the experance to bring it all together.

    This is a great site to hear and share ideas of things that work and dont work in the Boating world.

    Like I said in your great hands.. so enjoy your new Passion!!
    Matt

    1987 22 Classic
    502mpi B1XR

  3. #3
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    With a real 600hp even the TRS will get to 85 and better, a Blackhawk on that hull setup properly would be well above 85 with 600HP. A stock 300 Merc will get you a tad shy of 80 we have seen that on this board. A mild 383 hooked to a BH would be a real nice package and get you close to if not past 90.
    No matter what your beliefs are "GOD BLESS AMERICA"

    Fully retired marine tech near 60 years in the biz.

  4. #4
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    hi Ralph... 600 is a BIG number for a pump gas 406

    good luck with the project!
    Charter Member - WAFNC, SBBR, KWOSG
    1955 Perfect Mate
    1986 Hornet III, 502-415 TRS

    www.donzi.org


  5. #5
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    IMHo Jim is right. Take 500 hp's put on a bravo with a shortie and run 80 all day reliably. It feels real fast in a small boat Good luck

    Parnell
    Time forSweet Cheekz to find a new home

  6. #6
    mrfixxall Guest

    Fixx

    Mighty mouse II ?? i say skip all the other drives if money is no object and go with one of thease..
    http://www.arneson-industries.com/pa...ravoConversion

    knock the compression and add a procharger,that will get you well over 600 hp..

    BTW this in mighty mouse..
    http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthre...t=mighty+mouse

    Camshafts??Call bob,he is the cam god! Call him and you will see what i mean..
    585-654-8583

  7. #7
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    I'd say you have the attention of some of the best engine-buildin' Donzi-Owner's in the World (myself excluded), so be prepared to get some great advice (not from me). Knowing nothing beats cubic inches faster than "cubic" dollars gives you a tremendous advantage....welcome.

    With kind regards,
    Phil S.

  8. #8
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    Unless you plan to run an Arneson where rpms are not much of a concern, realize that you need whatever HP at below about 5,500 rpms or you will become your outdrive parts supplier's best customer.

    Boat engines need lots of torque. A drag race engine is at the other end of the spectrum from what you want as a boat engine.
    “Oh right, because you walked into strippers discount warehouse and said ‘Help me showcase my intellect.’” - Archer

    Bill
    Grand Rapids, Michigan
    1985 Donzi Criterion SS
    1967 Donzi 16 Ski Sporter, C16-409, Has a new home!
    38' Carver Aft Cabin
    1968 Sea Ray SRV 180 w/1975 70 hp Evinrude
    10" RIB w/15 hp 1984 Evinrude

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph crocker View Post
    I am a retired drag racer but always wanted a Donzi. Last summer I got a really nice 84 22 ft that I ran on big lakes and love it GPS at 67.2 and I don,t know what I am doing yet. However I want to build a go fast small lake boat for short fast joy rides. I am working with Jamie of Lakeside who will be doing most of the work. I have great confidence in his knowledge and he and I will be the "deciders". But I would appreciate ideas (no offense to Jamie) I just like learning.
    I am aquiring a 77 X18 hull with a TRS gimble and right hand steer stock tabs. I have a nice 406SBC I used in a race car. Great motor/H beam rods/pro one heads/steel crank/and more we will be pulling it apart and freshening with dish pistons to knock compression to about 10:1 max. Jamie will be working with the builder on a cam profile. It should come in at 600 HP. ANY THOUGHTS ON WHAT ELSE TO DO TO IT WHILE APART
    Thoghts on exhaust?????
    Drive I have heard from a TRS to a Bravo (more work) to a Konrad with some suggesting a Blackhawk. Money is an object. I am shooting for 85 MPH.
    Any thoughts????? This boat will be not be hit hard!!!!!!!
    Tabs/ ANY thoughts
    Jamie will be fitting it with hydraulic steering. ANY THOUGHTS
    Jamie if you see this I am simply curious as to what the Donzi world says.
    Any and all input is appreciated.
    PS the motor is equipped with an nos plate system and I will install a bottle but probably never use. I have experience with nos in drag cars/bikes/drag sleds. But probably just for looks.


    Ralph, No offense taken..




    Costs aside, What I have suggested for the most part so far to Ralph is as follows:

    In regards to the drive system...

    Use a Konrad full 540 -2 Xfactor conversion if the power & durability of the drive are most important. It will raise the drive height considerably and can be shimmed down if ever needed.

    Otherwise if strength and current ease of parts availability is more of a concern than converting to a B1 xr set up with a shorty may be the way to go.. This can also be shimmed down if needed..

    Otherwise, nothing wrong with the trs in there, other than it is going to set deep, not have the same ease of parts availability as the other 2 systems and it will have to be pieced together because all he has currently is a TRS transom assembly in uncertain shape at this point.

    The shortened drive height in theory should reduce drag gaining him extra speed & some improved handling. Or some of the pros of a Black hawk set up, but without the PITA of the twin props & long term parts issues..

    In regards to the engine.....
    I believe 5-600 hp is really more than enough and 500 should really have that moving. More over the 406 f he wants to convert it for marine usage wont yield quite the same results in the marine environment if the exhaust and cam are properly selected. I think with some good components, proper exhaust & cam selection and the rest of the right recipe in the 406 that somewhere around 500hp (not 600hp) can be put together to run in this environment without a blower.. But depending on where he wants or needs to be will also effect the price and what will be needed..

    Otherwise a supercharger or more cubic inches may be a better way to go.


    In regards to steering....
    For the speed and for obvious safety reasons a full hydraulic system has been recommended by me...

    I feel the Imco or Zeiger route would be a nice fit without spending money that can be spent elsewhere and he wont sacrifice quality. If he has me do the Konrad unit then WPM steering will be equipped on it..


    For the Tabs/Planes....
    I prefer using after market K-planes or the Lenco version of them. I have used both with very good results in many other applications..

    There are a lot more little details to it than this in the grand scheme of things, but these are some of the prevalent basics.. Jamie / Lakeside

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Say N20 View Post
    Unless you plan to run an Arneson where rpms are not much of a concern, realize that you need whatever HP at below about 5,500 rpms or you will become your outdrive parts supplier's best customer.
    Boat engines need lots of torque. A drag race engine is at the other end of the spectrum from what you want as a boat engine.
    Good point.. Yes the HP & Torque curves are important in this environment and application.. J

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    More Info

    Attn Jamie. Make no mistake you are my go to guy. And I want this project to end up something we are BOTH proud of. Due to $ we may have to build a step plan. If things go ok financially here I would ideally go all the way first shot.

    Thanks guys keep it coming. More info as you guys know dyno RPM is a factor of of RPM and torque,. Nice to say but not much value. My engine builder buddies have a dyno and software to build a virtual motor. That combined with seat of the pants experience will get us close. So specific info on torque and RPM will help.

    Jamie: perhaps some input will stir a thought.

  12. #12
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    Oops

    I meant HP is nice to say but not much value. Torque & Rpm are the real factors.

  13. #13
    donzi racer Guest

    So Glad You Started This Thread Ralph

    Ralph, I am so glad that you started this thread. Already some great ideas. I think this will be a benifit to a lot of Donzi owners. What a wonderful thing to start with like a blank canvas, this hull should be. It is funny that I had a 406 engine & alpha SS drive that was going in this hull. Just ran out of $ before I could get it started. I am so glad it went to someone with some vision to do it right. I am sure that Forrest will be tickled that it is finally going to get the right treatment.

    On another note, does anyone have any idea or have you seen any other original starboard steering X-18's?

    I think your thoughts on how to go about doing this Donzi were right on Jamie. Like I said before what a wonderful thing to have basically a blank canvas to start with. I am sure I will happy that I can say at the end of the project that I once owned that X-18 for a few minutes. ha ha

    Finally, I know it might help some of us other Donzi Classic nuts out here if there were some sort of price range estimate of some of the options that are discussed here. That may help other people get off their duffs & do some upgrades to their Donzi's that have been sitting around.

    Again just tickled that Ralph & the Boat are getting the help that is needed to bring this beauty back into the Donzi enjoyment category. Although I know this will never be another Mighty Mouse, I do believe since you are starting from scratch, it would almost be as easy to start thinking in terms of 90 plus instead of just 85. Just my 2c, Tom

  14. #14
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    I had to delete my original post because I just realized that you are talking about an X18. I'd like to see you put the money into the 22. The 22C is still small enough for smaller lakes. Anyway, good luck with the project. And, Ralph, I haven't lost your phone #. I just tried to call you and I will be in touch. We will do some boating on the big water this summer if you are still up for that.
    Lake St. Clair, Lake Huron, Lake Erie, Lake Oakland

  15. #15
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    What about the SCX drive? No transmission-less weight, X-dim adjustable
    IMCO SCX upper & -2" SC lower...strength(top) and speed(bottom)
    Latham or IMCO steering...
    Build 454 out of the 406...

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