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Thread: Survey done bad news

  1. #1
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    Survey done bad news

    Well just got the call "the boat is beautiful, looks great but it has 60%-70% moisture in the transom, and 2 outboard stringers in the engine compartment - but she looks great". Looks like she is out of contention unless yu guys know some cheap glass guys.

  2. #2
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    Moisture dopesn't necessarily mean it's rotted.
    many times the transom lower glass, along w/the rear inner glass can be partially removed and the wood allowed to dry.
    The rot issue needs to be determined.
    Then the repairs can include where the water is coming from and the proper repairs made.
    Just depends, it may be fine.
    George Carter
    Central Florida
    gcarter763@aol.com
    http://kineticocentralfl.com/


    “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid"
    Professor Ian Plimer, Adilaide and Melbourne Universities

  3. #3
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    Ditto to what George said. I had a Checkmate once that pegged the moisture meter at max.

    At the suggestion of all the "smart" people I asked, I cut the back off the transom, and about a 1/2 gallon of water drained out. I started to remove the wood, which didn't look black at all, and found it to be as solid as a rock. There was no de-lamination, no rot, nothing except for wet wood. I could have probably drilled a few holes thru the outer fiberglass, let it dry over the winter, seal it up and have been good.

    If you don't want the expense of redoing the stringers and the transom, about your only option would be to purchase a boat that someone else had done (correctly) in the past 5 years. Because of the expense that person put into the boat, it will command a more premium price.

    These boats can be as much as 46 years old, and we have learned a lot about boat building techniques in those years, so you can't really expect one to have survived in pristine condition.

    Its all part of the fun (disease) anyway.
    “Oh right, because you walked into strippers discount warehouse and said ‘Help me showcase my intellect.’” - Archer

    Bill
    Grand Rapids, Michigan
    1985 Donzi Criterion SS
    1967 Donzi 16 Ski Sporter, C16-409, Has a new home!
    38' Carver Aft Cabin
    1968 Sea Ray SRV 180 w/1975 70 hp Evinrude
    10" RIB w/15 hp 1984 Evinrude

  4. #4
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    well thats good news - in a way. I just spoke with Donzi and the gentleman told me about a product West Systems that I could also try - drill holes into the areas affected and squirt this in and it will strngthen the area. You guys ever heard of that?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetnjester View Post
    well thats good news - in a way. I just spoke with Donzi and the gentleman told me about a product West Systems that I could also try - drill holes into the areas affected and squirt this in and it will strngthen the area. You guys ever heard of that?
    Such a product is for rotted wood that has lost most of its fibers.
    It would still have to be dried first.
    Wood will dry faster if some air is allowed to ge to it.
    It might take weeks, or a couple of months for good drying.
    If you buy the boat, open up some of the glass and let it happen.
    Then re-cover the opened areas, this is one of the easiest glass repairs to make.
    Then re-seal ALL the holes.
    George Carter
    Central Florida
    gcarter763@aol.com
    http://kineticocentralfl.com/


    “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid"
    Professor Ian Plimer, Adilaide and Melbourne Universities

  6. #6
    GBond Guest
    As much as you like the boat... I'd IMO, move on. There are plenty on deals to be had. The risk factor is to high!

  7. #7
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    You could also reduce the price enough to make proper repairs and really know what you have, all others will still have some mystery to them!
    No matter what your beliefs are "GOD BLESS AMERICA"

    Fully retired marine tech near 60 years in the biz.

  8. #8
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    It is a great negotiating point.
    Cheers,
    Pismo
    1996 22 Classic
    Red with Stainless Windshield
    Stock Gen VI 502 Magnum MPI-415hp
    Stock Bravo I
    25" Mirage Plus
    74.5mph best @ 5050rpm GPS (Speedo said 80)
    27" Labbed Mirage Plus
    75.5mph best @ 4800rpm GPS (Speedo said 82)

  9. #9
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    Anything short of removing the old wood and reglassing it all is a compromise. As a minimum, the old wet wood is probably not sticking to the fiberglass skin very well anymore and won't magically "restick" once dry. There has almost got to be some rot in there, it just may not seem very advanced.

    Assume you or someone else will have to replace the transom and part or all of the stringers and make offer accordingly. It is very possible and even likely someone else will offer more money as many are in denial as to the extent of repairs necessary or they think a "quick fix" will be ok when it rarely, if ever, is. To make matters worse, these "quick fixes" always result in harder-to-repair-correctly adventures later.

    Either get it for a silly low price or move on.

  10. #10
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    West System Repair

    West System is a remarkable wood repair product - I have personally used it to restore a number of antique wood speedboats from the 1920's - I will do to wood what is beyond your dreams - better than the original in strength and total function restored - weight is on a par with the original wood. However, it will not displace water - and can only be used in totally dry wood.

    If the wood is missing it can be bulk filled with "west micro spheres" filler and troweled into the place of the missing wood. it will harden to consistency and strength equal to the missing wood. Colors vary from clear to white depending on filler - West epoxy that has been left exposed to the moisture in the air will turn a brown color.

    Now the real issue is repairing a Polyester Fiberglass hull with Epoxy - how compatible are the two plastics? My efforts to use West as a "surface" repair on the fiberglass have caused me to retreat to the polyester camp.

    Newer Donzi's don't use balsa core but use some type of polyester box coring that does not hold water.
    Dr. d

  11. #11
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    Glass w/ester resin never sticks to wood very well.
    I think you would find that most older bonded glass/wood, even where it appears to be well bonded has no real strength compared to epoxy.
    But in the case of wood cores for stringers, it's not expremnely important.
    It's mainly there to keep the glass skins apart and for compression strength for engine mounts, etc.
    George Carter
    Central Florida
    gcarter763@aol.com
    http://kineticocentralfl.com/


    “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid"
    Professor Ian Plimer, Adilaide and Melbourne Universities

  12. #12
    GBond Guest
    Some of these replies are honestly, well kinda concern me.

    Obviously the transom and stringers need over hauled and I'm sure the

    floor is wet also. Anyone want to quote a price on fixing all that.

    Let's make a list on what needs to be done.

    Quality wasn't the priority in 88'.
    Last edited by GBond; 12-22-2010 at 06:34 AM. Reason: PC

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by GBond View Post
    Some of these replies are honestly, way the phuck out in left field.

    Obviously the transom and stringers need over hauled and I'm sure the

    floor is wet also. Anyone want to quote a price on fixing all that.

    Let's make a list on what needs to be done.

    Quality control wasn't the priority in 88'.
    Matches my thoughts, get estimates the seller must come down or hope to put the screws to someone else. If you can negotiate a decent number it can be repaired better then when it was new, like I said in my other post that is the only way you will know what you have and the bills to prove it.
    No matter what your beliefs are "GOD BLESS AMERICA"

    Fully retired marine tech near 60 years in the biz.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by GBond View Post
    Some of these replies are honestly, way the phuck out in left field.

    Obviously the transom and stringers need over hauled and I'm sure the

    floor is wet also. Anyone want to quote a price on fixing all that.

    Let's make a list on what needs to be done.

    Quality control wasn't the priority in 88'.
    The glass layup in Donzi boats was insuficient in the '80's. Period.
    Any boat from that era, w/more than 250 HP needs more glass in the stringers and bottom. The stringer bottoms need to be filled and about 200-300% more glass added to the stringers.
    Donzi relied too much on the stringer wood for strength instead the glass that covered it. Ask Don about large yachts and their hollow glass stringers. The wood in the stringers should just be core material, and provide compression strength for engine mounts, nothing more.
    I'm not, nor never did subscribe to leaving rotted wood in the stringers and transom. All I did say was that perfectly good wet wood needn't be replaced if it can be dried and sealed properly.
    The other thing I said was that glass material layed up w/any kind of ester resin doesn't adhere to any kind of wood very well, particularly compared to epoxy which adheres extremely well. There is all sorts of reference material to back this up.
    I would also say, in a perfect world, the stringer core could be looked at like a male mold, something to lay glass on. The main strength should be in the glass, not the wood inside it.
    This is NOT any where near left field.
    George Carter
    Central Florida
    gcarter763@aol.com
    http://kineticocentralfl.com/


    “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid"
    Professor Ian Plimer, Adilaide and Melbourne Universities

  15. #15
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    Jetnjester , just curious where is your location ? Hey guy , the bottom line is if you can get the boat for a better price because of the repairs needed it can and could be a walk in the park doing these repairs yourself and to tell you the truth with everybody posting the way they do .....it can sometimes be very overwhelming and if you feel that this might be an option , we or i can talk you thru this and if the wood gets wet there often is a breakdown in the glue which will cause Delamination in the ply and most of the time completly replacing a damaged stringer is often easier then replacing a section considering most stringers run from the transom to the bulkhead and to tell you the truth doing a transom on a Donzi is a piece of cake and with that in mind when all is said and done at least you will know what has been done which can and will give you piece of mind in the long run and good luck with your decision .

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