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Thread: Ply or Coosa?

  1. #46
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    Scippy , if you were using Epoxy , say................Shell like skater uses or Plasco with a pot life of 126 min 's or more .....at 70 degree's you would be able to get 5-6- or 7 layers at one time mixing the resin with a little cabosil for a thicking agent to help prevent gravity from taking over and to tell you the truth Epoxy might cost more but has so many more options . strength , work time , and no stank .

  2. #47
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    Scibby after going over this entire thread depending on how far along you are with this project shoot me a PM with your phone number instead of typing ....... because advise is free !

  3. #48
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    [quote=gcarter;573180][quote=scippy;573175]
    Quote Originally Posted by gcarter View Post

    It's impossible to determine an existing layup schedule by looking at a piece of glass, so you have to do something to make it discernable.
    Glass won't burn, but the resin will, so take a scrap (you need several square inches) of the existing glass and burn it. The resin will be consumed, leaving the glass layup schedule in plain view. It will smoke and stink.
    Carefully take apart the layered glass w/tweezers or other useful tool. You'll be able to see mat, bidirectional stitchmat, roving, and cloth.
    Write down what you find, something similar to your findings will be your new schedule.
    George,

    Did the burn test yesterday on a scrap piece of transom from the TRS cutout on my Mag sport, it was not so easy to determine each individual layer of CSM, but it was very easy to see and count 4 individual layers of WR in the total layup. I think layup schedule should be something like this, Gelcoat, 2 Mat, Roving, 2 Mat, Roving & Roving, 2 Mat, Roving, 2 Mat.
    In the middle of all this I did find 2 Woven Roving back to back. Quite a layup schedule!........................9/16" fiberglass!
    1983 Cigarette 35' Mistress
    1976 Magnum 27' Sport
    1986 Donzi 18' Classic
    NEVER FORGET 9/11

  4. #49
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    [quote=scippy;578923][quote=gcarter;573180]
    Quote Originally Posted by scippy View Post

    George,

    Did the burn test yesterday on a scrap piece of transom from the TRS cutout on my Mag sport, it was not so easy to determine each individual layer of CSM, but it was very easy to see and count 4 individual layers of WR in the total layup. I think layup schedule should be something like this, Gelcoat, 2 Mat, Roving, 2 Mat, Roving & Roving, 2 Mat, Roving, 2 Mat.
    In the middle of all this I did find 2 Woven Roving back to back. Quite a layup schedule!........................9/16" fiberglass!
    That's pretty impressive!
    Now you have the choice of duplicating what you found, or using Knytex.
    The Knytex will be stronger, and in a patch, you want as much strength as you can get. That's not to say you can't use a couple of courses of
    38 oz. WR stitchmat: http://www.mertons.com/Reinforcements/stitchmat.html
    on the inside final courses.
    The thing I hate about what you're doing is all the grinding.
    George Carter
    Central Florida
    gcarter763@aol.com
    http://kineticocentralfl.com/


    “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid"
    Professor Ian Plimer, Adilaide and Melbourne Universities

  5. #50
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    I may have already mentioned this, but it might be a good idea, if you choose to use Knytex, to make a practice patch from some pieces of the Knytex, maybe 5" or 6" square. Cut a few more than what you think you might need, and lay them up on a piece of melamine.
    It just might be a good idea to get a good handle on the characteristics before you actually start.
    The investment in material and resin just might be worth it.
    George Carter
    Central Florida
    gcarter763@aol.com
    http://kineticocentralfl.com/


    “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid"
    Professor Ian Plimer, Adilaide and Melbourne Universities

  6. #51
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    Skippy , there are far better choices of fabric then #38 oz stitchmat woven roving which is very old school and those fabric's are ............#1708 or #1808 which both are widely used today at most major Boat Co's .

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    Artie it was great to talk with ya!......food for thought in so many key area's of laminating idea's....."love the integral tank concept.

    George thanks for sourcing out Merton's for me, very reasonably priced for all the materials I need.................indeed it is, Vinylester and 1708 kyntex.......any happy sadists out there that truly like grinding?
    1983 Cigarette 35' Mistress
    1976 Magnum 27' Sport
    1986 Donzi 18' Classic
    NEVER FORGET 9/11

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by scippy View Post
    Artie it was great to talk with ya!......food for thought in so many key area's of laminating idea's....."love the integral tank concept.

    George thanks for sourcing out Merton's for me, very reasonably priced for all the materials I need.................indeed it is, Vinylester and 1708 kyntex.......any happy sadists out there that truly like grinding?
    Skippy and you also..........because it is always nice to put a voice to a name .

  9. #54
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    27' magnum sport lowered floor.

    Got this done awhile ago, but didn't get around to post any pics. I lowered the cockpit floor by 7" this meant removing the two outboard stringers and taking 7" off the top of the keel stringer. 1st pic shows all the stringers intact with just the floor removed, the rest of the pictures are from different angles with 7" of the keel stringer cut and the outboard stringers gone.
    1983 Cigarette 35' Mistress
    1976 Magnum 27' Sport
    1986 Donzi 18' Classic
    NEVER FORGET 9/11

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by scippy View Post
    Got this done awhile ago, but didn't get around to post any pics. I lowered the cockpit floor by 7" this meant removing the two outboard stringers and taking 7" off the top of the keel stringer. 1st pic shows all the stringers intact with just the floor removed, the rest of the pictures are from different angles with 7" of the keel stringer cut and the outboard stringers gone.
    Hello Scippy

    When I did the floor on Plum Crazy, I left the side(outboard stringers)intacted (full height) and just cut down the center keel stringer , then I reinforced the center stringer with marine plywood on both side of the stringer,, am sure it was a over kill,, but I really didn't know better at the time. Then I build a box from marine plywood then bolted that to the side stringers and then glass it all in place to lower the front section of the floor. Didn't do all of the floor as I had two fuel tanks under the rear section of the floor.
    Seem to work well

    Thank you
    jim

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by dammmagnum View Post
    Hello Scippy

    When I did the floor on Plum Crazy, I left the side(outboard stringers)intacted (full height) and just cut down the center keel stringer , then I reinforced the center stringer with marine plywood on both side of the stringer,, am sure it was a over kill,, but I really didn't know better at the time. Then I build a box from marine plywood then bolted that to the side stringers and then glass it all in place to lower the front section of the floor. Didn't do all of the floor as I had two fuel tanks under the rear section of the floor.
    Seem to work well

    Thank you
    jim
    Jim, I'm doing just the same, but on a larger scale. The 2 outboard stringers that were removed will be replaced, but farther port and starboard of there original locations. I know alot of people who raced these boats and never considered lowering the floor, but for me I'd rather be half in then half out!
    1983 Cigarette 35' Mistress
    1976 Magnum 27' Sport
    1986 Donzi 18' Classic
    NEVER FORGET 9/11

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by scippy View Post
    Jim, I'm doing just the same, but on a larger scale. The 2 outboard stringers that were removed will be replaced, but farther port and starboard of there original locations. I know alot of people who raced these boats and never considered lowering the floor, but for me I'd rather be half in then half out!

    Yes,, I have to agree with you, about being in rather then out, so your lowered section will be larger to port and starboard?

    Roger Munn had lowered the floor on his Sport just in the area of his two single bolsters , after he got tosed out once in a bay race. It made me think about it.
    Being that I had a 3 man bolster set up, I did the entire section from side stringer to side stringer under the bolster and cut down the center stringer.
    plus my new Biltrite 3 man bolster was higher , so was like gaining about 9-10 inches total
    I thought that the later Starfire models had the floor lowered from the factory, I could be wrong?


    Have a good weekend
    Thank you
    Jim

  13. #58
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    Decided to remove the (cockpit/cabin) bulkhead wall from the 27 sport today..........I found a little rot in the corner where the wall meets the hull, but really not much. I was looking for any good reason for a while to due this. Now crawling in & out won't be half as bad. I was lucky to get the wall out in virtually one piece, it was just a little flimsey so I screwed 1x2's to support it for tracing out the new wall after the fuel tanks go in. After much thought, I decided on 2 aluminum fuel tanks, both 65" apiece, roughy 12" longer than the 53" stock originals. Both getting Rochester twinset fuel senders (a manual sight glass gauge on the tank plus electrods to a dash mount) ........In a couple of the pictures you'll notice I've been peeling off some loosely laminated fiberglass. I pulled a slight corner that was up and now I'm surprisingly off to the races!......I have two questions?.......(1) I've used a flat chisel to pry it up to this point, how far ahead do I keep prying it up?.....also, because I'm using a bit of force to pull it up with a flat chisel, should a normal layer of woven roving be that prone to separation?..........One thing for sure is, "This beats f**k'n grinding any day of the week!
    1983 Cigarette 35' Mistress
    1976 Magnum 27' Sport
    1986 Donzi 18' Classic
    NEVER FORGET 9/11

  14. #59
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    Scippy , the fabric l@@ks like it was wetted out just fine with no white area's that show de lamination with the exception of the very front and some of the stringer but then again it is hard to really tell . Scippy , just curious have you done a tap test listening for sound changes in the area that you are tearing out because if you use to much force something as got to give and are you able to keep slipping something under the lamininate like it is not bonded or see somewhat of a small gap between the two .

  15. #60
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    Scippy
    Glad to see you are getting every last bit of "bad" stuff out Its your one and only chance. Looking great

    Parnell
    Time forSweet Cheekz to find a new home

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