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Thread: Building Surface Tension

  1. #586
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    Both of these rumble hatch latches are a combination of twist and compression so it will make for a no rattle, tight fit. While that solves one problem, it creates another. The bottom of my hatches are going to be upholstered. When they are opened and "up" they serve as a little seat back. Now, with a center mounted piece, the latch will dig into the passengers back. It needs to stand proud in order to clear and grab the underside of the deck. The hatch themselves are 1" thick and these latches will be flushed mounted. I also have to figure out how to anchor the top of the hatch to the deck and prevent the hatch gel coat from being scratched while in the open position underway.
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    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  2. #587
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    Here is a picture of the rain gutter lip that Clint and team fabricated and grafted onto the deck. The lip is three edges, with the rear being without any lip at all so you can slide the hatch down into position.
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    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  3. #588
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    The hatch lids, when closed, are supported from below by the gutter on three sides, no? All the front latch needs to do is keep the lid from flying up. So, instead of latches so big and problematically deep, why not put a small twist or slide latch fully within the 1" thick hatch? Much like an ordinary door's hardware pops out the edge of the door itself. But with a flush-mounted slide or twist on the top of the hatch lid to engage/disengage it? Could be MUCH smaller than the big ones in the pizza mockup, allowing the whole thing to fit within the 1" thickness you have to work with.

    On protecting the gel when using the seats: couldn't you make any sort of cushioned support for the seatback/hatch lids down below the level of the deck? Say, imagine the rain gutter going around all 4 sides, with the aft side having a friendly, non-marking cushioned strip along its front side, fitted to the curve of the hatch lid. Cut two notches in the aft portion of the sides of the gutter, for the sear backs to slide up and down. Done. Further, with the hinges you have, and the right notching, you might not even need a latch on the bow end of the hatches. Instead, just a fixed pin and slot, so the forward end was captive while the hatch was closed. Assuming changing configurations means pulling the hinge pins anyway, the hatch lid will be completely free during the switchover. Pull it up and out, lay it close to flat, slide the bow end into place with the fixed pin going into its slot, drop the stern end in place, replace the hinge pins.

    For a totally rattle-free fit, you could even file a tiny hint of angle on the pin. And/or use two pins per hatch lid.
    .
    Simple, no obtrusive, clunky hardware to sweat when using the seats.

    Just some ideas...
    "I don't have time to get into it, but he went through a lot." -Pulp Fiction

  4. #589
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    100% correct, when you are sitting on the hatch in the closed position all the weight is handled by the 3 lips. With your approach, what are you seeing as the "handle" portion when you want to lift the entire hatch up or even remove it from the boat completely? The hatches are 25"x25" roughly. Here is a blown up picture.
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    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  5. #590
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    Good point, you will have be able to grab and lift them.

    Small pulls that fold flat are available. A finger hole is the lowest tech out there.

    But the more I think about it, you'll want to be able to open those hatches for storage when NOT re-configuring for seats. Which takes me back to my first thought, with small slide or twist latches on the front of the lids (or just in front of them, engaging a hole or slot in the hatch lid). But since the latches don't need to support any real force, just keep the hatch from flying open, I think you can go smaller, to get them fully recessed in the hatch lid.

    i suppose in a perfect world, the hatches would not hinge at the rear edge, but maybe would pivot on posts that stuck out of the sides, maybe a couple inches forward of the rear of the hatch lids. When using for storage, unlatch the front edge and open, with the trailing edge of the hatch lids going down, not up. But when slightly opened, the whole lid could slide a little forward or aft, such that the pivot pins would move to drop into channels, guiding the lid into the seat position. The aft edge of the hatch lid would have a slot to drop into when it was a seatback. That way, both the storage open/close action and the seat deploy/stow functions coul be performed without pulling any hinge pins and picking up the whole hatch lid. Much easier, nothing to drop in the drink, nothing to drop on the deck and mar, etc. A bit like a reclining lawn chair works.

    The channels to guide the hatch lid down into place could be very simple and lightly built. Just enough to support the switchover. Once the seatback was in place, it would sit in a slot at the bottom. Would need support at the top still. Unless you made strong, fitted channels that supported the sides of the seatback solidly once it dropped down in., instead of just guiding the pins. Do-able, but more work. Nice when done though. Seat backs would be supported fully on 3 sides, just as the hatch lids were. Might be able to do that pretty easily with a few pieces of teak, now that I think about it, if you didn't feel like tackling it as a glass project.
    "I don't have time to get into it, but he went through a lot." -Pulp Fiction

  6. #591
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    Good point, you will have be able to grab and lift them.

    But the more I think about it, you'll want to be able to open those hatches for storage when NOT re-configuring for seats. Which takes me back to my first thought, with small slide or twist latches on the front of the lids (or just in front of them, engaging a hole or slot in the hatch lid). But since the latches don't need to support any real force, just keep the hatch from flying open, I think you can go smaller, to get them fully recessed in the hatch lid.
    Yep, I think you are heading in the direction of something like these. The hatches are only 1" thick so we'd need to build up the underbelly of each to flush mount the hardware if that is the way we go. No big deal as we need to 100% prep and then gel coat the undersides so they look good when open.
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    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  7. #592
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    Looks good Greg. Nidacore is good stuff, just rout out the edge and fill with west system thickened up with milled fiber. I'm doing the same work now on my midnight.

    Back on the color, love the yellow and white scheme, classic as it gets. My old 16 was yellow and dark green but the yellow was a darker mustard version.

    -M
    1978 Magnum Starfire "MAYHEM"
    1994 Donzi 22 Classic 540/Blackhawk - Sold
    1982 Midnight Express 32 SS

  8. #593
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    The hatch lids, when closed, are supported from below by the gutter on three sides, no? All the front latch needs to do is keep the lid from flying up. So, instead of latches so big and problematically deep, why not put a small twist or slide latch fully within the 1" thick hatch? Much like an ordinary door's hardware pops out the edge of the door itself.
    I was going to suggest a simple pin and clip, like on the hood of some old muscle cars, but I really like your "door latch" idea.

    Greg, that latch in the bottom right corner of the pic in your last post would look great.
    Why is faster never fast enough.

  9. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDonziM View Post
    Looks good Greg. Nidacore is good stuff, just rout out the edge and fill with west system thickened up with milled fiber. I'm doing the same work now on my midnight.

    Back on the color, love the yellow and white scheme, classic as it gets. My old 16 was yellow and dark green but the yellow was a darker mustard version.

    -M
    Sound like the ME is moving along. I wonder if your 16's yellow color was the factory color known as "Bermuda Sand"? I'm happy I switched back to yellow. We did a couple of spray outs that I should get tomorrow to see how they match. I'm thinking no boot stripe, just solid and simple "Yuma Yellow". There are only three Yuma Yellow hulls left out there. A 14, a 16, and a Benchseat in Pittsburgh.
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    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  10. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeller View Post
    I was going to suggest a simple pin and clip, like on the hood of some old muscle cars, but I really like your "door latch" idea.

    Greg, that latch in the bottom right corner of the pic in your last post would look great.
    I ordered all three of the pieces below to see what I thought.

    Actually I have some others coming in as well. Why not, it's 6 degrees now and dropping to -3 in the morning. Gives me plenty of time to eyeball this stuff. I liked the one you mention as well yeller. I'm wondering if when you push it down it will act as a decent handle. If it does and also has a super strong spring that could be the keeper. The hatch "transforming" into a seat back will be very low tech. The way I hammer The Mule in heavy water has taught me that simple is always better. I have broken just about everything except the clamp bracket.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  11. #596
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    Along with a -2 degrees on the thermometer and a massive heating bill in the morning mail, I also got my (4) folding cleats that I'd ordered from Replacement Boat Parts. I'd grade them a B-

    The design I like a lot because it gives you a lot of actual cleat size. Big fan of the fold flat approach. I'm not keen on the pins though and the motion to fold flat is a touch looser than I would have hoped. I thought there might be a delrin bushing in there and that the pins would be thicker. Then, as I was looking though the shipping box I came across the tiniest of stickers that said "Made In Taiwan". I don't know, maybe everything is these days. I may fall back to a different option. Not sure yet. Once we drill holes in the deck there is no turning back so I want quality pieces.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  12. #597
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    Too bad on the cleats... good hardware is tough to find. Speaking of which, you come across a good folding boarding step by any chance? Something like 5-6" x 11-12". Ideally, I'd like to recess mount it so its flush when folded down. All I've found so far is Garelick.

    If I remember correctly, the color of my 16' was Aztec Gold. Matty or Scott came up with it.
    1978 Magnum Starfire "MAYHEM"
    1994 Donzi 22 Classic 540/Blackhawk - Sold
    1982 Midnight Express 32 SS

  13. #598
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    The first three packages of hardware arrived today..........

    The Perko slide bolt is out. Nice piece but the slide spring makes moving the bolt a pain. Might work for the transom hatches where use if limited. The two Southco pieces are in the running. The Slide Bolt is super heavy even though it is small. Great, smooth slide spring action. Small ring at the end. The Compression Latch is a very nice piece. It is twist and compression, has a big finger ring and even has a key that is hidden under the latch when it is down so you can lock the hatches. A lot smaller then the Taco, in fact the smallest I could find with a square flange. One thing I do find odd is that the cover is almost identical in width to the recessed barrel. When we circle drill the hatch, I'm not sure how the left and right edge will be concealed. Stupid and annoying for such a great piece.

    More hardware should be delivered in a couple of days along with 1 degree temps.
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    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  14. #599
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    That Southco slide latch might look good on the boat. It makes me think of it as an updated S/S look to the old school leather strap and buckle.

    The Perko units look too much like gate hardware
    Why is faster never fast enough.

  15. #600
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    The Slide Latch is a well made piece and I agree it has a bit of a retro look. Press the button in and slide the latch into place and it locks. Two bolts through the middle mount it. Have to see what the other stuff looks like but so far I might use the compression latches on the interior cold and wet storage lockers between the rumble seats and then use the slide latches on the hatches.

    I found a very strong option for transom eyes with these forged Wichard units from France that come with backing plates. Easily used as crane lifting eyes with 8,000 lb load rating each, ski eyes, or trailer tie downs.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

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