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Thread: Building Surface Tension

  1. #286
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    Thanks George. I am pursuing a couple of ideas. Why not add a 4th ring to the circus, right? Hardin Marine offers several quick disconnect wheels and I put a note into Zieger to see what the story is with there remote pump as well. It turns out the cosmetic cap is only 6" in diameter so maybe there is a way to integrate the second helm into the 16's very tight dashboard and have it look "right" The alternative is buy an Outerlimits, only problem is I would be about $999,000 short.
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    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  2. #287
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    Having a second helm on the port side makes no sense to me as the controls will have to be operated by the starboard seated person. They use "throttleman" in offshore racing but in a boat as small as this I would want the wheel and throttle together.

    If there was enough room for three across center steering would be nice with a foot control but three would be too tight.

    My vote would be scrap the dual steering and engineer fancier drink holders.
    C16B67 My "baby"
    2012 World Cat 320EC 4.2L V6 F300 Yamahas

  3. #288
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    It is not for the left side and it may not be doable. If it is, it would be for a center steering location. The foot pedal location works with both center and right hand seating, as does the gear shift. The old dual stations used to have the stalk stand proud, so you could impale yourself with great eaze. On the newer stuff, known as "hide-a-helm", everything is evidently completely concealed behind the dashboard. I have not yet gotten any feedback from Zieger, so not sure what they have.

    If your asking, why do this at all?..........the answer is, there really is no rational reason whatsoever.
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  4. #289
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    It looks like there are two potential options. The first includes a Verado power steering pump, a Char Lyn helm, a Hardin quick disconnect wheel, and Zieger steering. The second includes Seastar power assist pump and Seastar steering. Each presents a different set of issues. The Verado pump evidently runs all the time, and possibly draws as much as 60 amps. If that is the power draw, it won't work as my motor options can't keep up with that draw. The Zieger steering looks to only come with side mount ram, which is a benefit. On the Seastar option, they updated the "power assist" optional pump in 2009. It only runs when needed, and now can accomadate 1500psi and thus support the front ram "Pro" steering option which is a must at these speeds. It may not work however with the Hardin quick disconnect wheel which means it would be out. If center steering could be done, then the battery could be mounted centered in the bilge and the center of gravity would be the lowest possible, a good thing for bench racing.

    Here are pics of the two pumps .........Verado is the first pump, and Seastar second. The third pic is the SeaStar system with a 5345 cylinder, not the 6345. Then, in the last pic is a pic of the hidden helm.

    One other potential option is Silversteer from UFLEX. UFLEX has a very interesting catalog for 2011 and is worth checking into although there systems may not be up to the performance levels of my build.
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    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  5. #290
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    Mr. Carter was nice enough to send me a gel sample. Thanks George! I now have color samples for all three options. It took Ferro forever to get me samples, and once I got them there is nothing but number codes on the back. I've called them once to find out which of the three they sent is Ferro Mfg. "VF1830-Kandy Apple Red". Minicraft won't send samples, so it was key that George was spraying gel and could mail me a color swatch of the Minicraft 2003-2009 "Aronow Edition Red RT822" from his incredible build. Valspar sent a high gloss gel chart right away, so very easy to compare the Valspar "Red 5R-14" option to the other two. Now I just need some sunshine outside so I can lay them all out and see how they look in natural light. I am also thinking about spraying the pad surface only black. That would have a black transition swoosh right up the middle of the hull, getting thinner as the pad converges.
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  6. #291
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    Hmm, if we spray only the pad surface black, I'm sure there is a product that offers faster properties then the red gelcoat. That might help with the bench racing.
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    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  7. #292
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    The electric pumps are interesting. The drawback is that there's no "adjustment" in pump displacement to account for different sized cylinders. The Seastar system has a lot going for it. Its one drawback, depending on what size cylinder you choose, you may be making a lot of turns as it's only good for two cubic inches per revolution.......at least the last time I looked. So, using it, you may be limited to some pretty small displacement cylinders. And that may be all you need. It's all part of designing a system.
    George Carter
    Central Florida
    gcarter763@aol.com
    http://kineticocentralfl.com/


    “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid"
    Professor Ian Plimer, Adilaide and Melbourne Universities

  8. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Guimond View Post
    Hmm, if we spray only the pad surface black, I'm sure there is a product that offers faster properties then the red gelcoat. That might help with the bench racing.
    back in my sailboat days we used a spray on graphite coating... i'm here to tell you a tenth of a knot or two is all the difference in winning sometimes.. I won a LOT of races back then...
    Charter Member - WAFNC, SBBR, KWOSG
    1955 Perfect Mate
    1986 Hornet III, 502-415 TRS

    www.donzi.org


  9. #294
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    Scene.......open with shot of PT Barnum.......fade to boat launch where Surface Tension is parked, waiting on the trailer, stoicly, on the down slope. Stop, pan to #1 approaching boat with a small roller heavy with "?" Mother with small kid waiting. While #1 rolls the pad surface, kid asks, "what is on that paint roller?" "Graphite son, 100% pure graphite".
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  10. #295
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    McLube HullKote
    http://www.mclubemarine.com/

    Smells good too!

  11. #296
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    George, I agree with your post. I have to do some more research, but I would assume that Teleflex has taken that into consideration when they offered the upgraded SeaStar "Pro" steering version. I am not sure if it will work properly with a 6345 Allison ram with an adjustable Capilano helm. Now on CharLynn, Hardin, Zieger system, evidently they initially used a Mercedes pump, then switched to the Verado pump. I still say that the odds are only 50/50 that it can be properly designed in my little application, but I want to chase it down fully.
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  12. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by jl1962 View Post
    McLube HullKote
    http://www.mclubemarine.com/

    Smells good too!
    Thanks for that info.........pretty interesting product. In theory, if we designed the pad correctly, it will be the only thing in the water when bench racing
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  13. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Guimond View Post
    Thanks for that info.........pretty interesting product. In theory, if we designed the pad correctly, it will be the only thing in the water when bench racing

    You keep adding weight it will never get up on that pad...
    C16B67 My "baby"
    2012 World Cat 320EC 4.2L V6 F300 Yamahas

  14. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Guimond View Post
    Hmm, if we spray only the pad surface black, I'm sure there is a product that offers faster properties then the red gelcoat. That might help with the bench racing.
    Greg , just curious and could you explain your thoughts on this please ?

  15. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Guimond View Post
    Thanks for that info.........pretty interesting product. In theory, if we designed the pad correctly, it will be the only thing in the water when bench racing

    Well - you're correct. Certainly less wetted surface at speed on a Donzi than a sailboat! I put it on all my boats - very slippery stuff! Helps keep everything clean too.


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