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Thread: Building Surface Tension

  1. #166
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    Strange as LED is far brighter then normal lighting. Anyone have any knowledge of where I might go to research the Allison combo Nav lights?
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Planetwarmer View Post
    A feller at west marine told me that coast guard doesn't approve LED running lights because they aren't bright enough.

    Yep those West Marine guys are really knowledgeable sometimes. This model is CG certified for vessels under 20 meters. I think I'm ok. 90% less juice to run it and no bulb contacts to always clean works in my book.
    C16B67 My "baby"
    2012 World Cat 320EC 4.2L V6 F300 Yamahas

  3. #168
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    Well, today my tank came in.....at least the tank bottom...
    Clint and his team have been spot on with all there suggestions and the quality of the work so far has been outstanding. With that as backdrop, I went with The Master Fabricator's suggestion to use a local metal shop for the belly tank. Can't say that I have not been skittish so far as the tank quality and execution in this build is super critical, and I don't know anything about the shop doing the work. This approach is very unusual for me, but I trust the Master Fabricator so its "all on black" now. The metal shop prefers to use a huge break to bend, instead of weld, the 1/8" aluminum sheet into shape as a tank bottom. They then drop the bottom off at Clint's so the guys can eyeball the base on a dry set in the hull and suggest any small angle changes that might be needed.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  4. #169
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    There have been a lot of threads on how to protect a new gas tank from rotting out over time. Mr. Carter is the source on most of what works and he was kind enough to provide some pm insights to me a while back. Last night, while guarding the castle on "mischief night", I decided to search up a bunch of details on the "best" way to handle a relatively inexpensive aluminum gas tank. Other materials have been talked about, but if you want to claw back every inch of extra fuel capacity with a custom tank, it seems like aluminum is the only choice that has acceptable weight. When my tank is fully fabbed, I will place it on the electronic scale to get a weight as it is two levels and roughly 6' x 2' so pretty big. I am assuming that it will weigh in under 100lbs in final fully baffled and valved config.
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  5. #170
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    I think I came up with the following key preservation steps when I merged all the various comments. This is even more important to me as we run in salt water. Anyway, here goes..........corrections welcome!

    1. Scotchguard the entire surface of the aluminum tank and remove EVERY BIT OF SHINE on that aluminum.

    2. Clean the entire gas tank surface with a mild soap like Dawn, then dry it with a towel and hairdryer.

    3. Wipe down the entire tank with Acetone to remove any traces of oil or contaminants.

    4. Now prime the bare gas tank with 3 coats of BASF R-M EP789 two part epoxy primer in black. This particular primer has a lot of zinc chromate. Second choice would be Interlux Primocon.

    5. Next and final step will be to apply George Carter's coal tar epoxy treatment. I think this is the stuff...."Epoxy.com Product #216 Coal Tar Epoxy Coating Resin System" is a two component coal tar epoxy coating used to protect steel, concrete structures, timber, and other construction materials in corrosive environments. In my application, I think we will only apply to the bottom, sides, and ends of the custom tank.

    The above 5 steps are all intended to protect the tank but as important is how to properly install the tank. On my project, I have no choice but to foam in the tank. I need to so that it adds to the overall structural rigidity of the hull stringers in general, and the pad in particular. This is where I could use some feedback from folks on the board if my choices are wrong. Right now, the plan is to bed the tank directly into a light foam base and also foam the sides and ends in. Then, the top of the gas tank will have mechanical cross fastener strips
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  6. #171
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    Way to go Greg!

    Aren't you glad you don't have to do the glass work?
    I think you have this 16 figured out.
    George Carter
    Central Florida
    gcarter763@aol.com
    http://kineticocentralfl.com/


    “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid"
    Professor Ian Plimer, Adilaide and Melbourne Universities

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Guimond View Post
    I have no choice but to foam in the tank. I need to so that it adds to the overall structural rigidity of the hull stringers in general, and the pad in particular. This is where I could use some feedback from folks on the board if my choices are wrong. Right now, the plan is to bed the tank directly into a light foam base and also foam the sides and ends in. Then, the top of the gas tank will have mechanical cross fastener strips
    After seeing the consequence of water saturation in and around the compartment where the fuel tanks had been placed in my 27 magnum, it leads me to believe there must be a better way to keep them dry plus keeping them in a stable bedding. Although, I don't have the structural rigidity issues you've explained, I do know that the tanks should have some sort of air circulation around them. On my tanks I intend to place 1/4" neopreme squares to the bottom just high enough for air to circulate around them. To the issue of securing them in?...... there will be welded brackets to the sides of the tanks for attaching to the stringers.......hope this helps.
    1983 Cigarette 35' Mistress
    1976 Magnum 27' Sport
    1986 Donzi 18' Classic
    NEVER FORGET 9/11

  8. #173
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    Thanks George. My thoughts, like yours, are although these small details are painful to think through and execute correctly, why not do it right while you have the access. I'd like to think this project gets passed down to our second grade girl decades from now. Scippy, pm me if you want some reading fodder on air flow mount options, I found a bunch of stuff. On my build one of the keys to making the pad work perfectly is to be 100% sure that the structure can't be compromised be even the tiniest amount of deflection at high speeds. The Scientist was adamant about this detail in his report and Clint went to great lengths on the layup. We all agreed that using the tank as almost a "joined" add to the pad would make a lot of sense, thus the need to foam. We still have to figure out exactly how to tab the top of the tank and then strap it. Once the tank is dry set and pictures taken, the options will come into better focus.
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  9. #174
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    Scippy, it's been my experience that water finds its way into tank spaces through poorly sealed drains, etc.
    The next thing to consider is proper coating. If it's done correctly, the tanks(s) won't corrode.
    Foaming them in adds tremendous strength to the hull.
    I know there's always exceptions, but in performance boats, where it seems tanks are almost always down in the bilge, it's hard to beat this arrangement.
    George Carter
    Central Florida
    gcarter763@aol.com
    http://kineticocentralfl.com/


    “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid"
    Professor Ian Plimer, Adilaide and Melbourne Universities

  10. #175
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    scippy, In my MAGNUM I have a 1" PVC pipe at the keel that extends thru the bulkheads with a bedding to prevent water from entering area under gas tanks, 1 on each side of center stringer. I put 3/4" blocks at bottom of tank so the foam would flow under the tank. Had to lag 2x4 at top of tank secured to stringers so that tank would not move as foam activates. I would not put tabs on tank and secure to stringers, feel tank can flex. Should paint tank with zinc chromate, and seal floor hatch with silicone... done. "HIGH LIFE"

  11. #176
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    Solid information as always from those that know!.........Sorry to sidetrack, but since we're on the subject of foam, a quick question? ......Was foam right there at the avent of the new dawn of fiberglass boats?..........or did it pre-date RPF boats and was commonly used around fuel tanks of earlier hull designs?
    1983 Cigarette 35' Mistress
    1976 Magnum 27' Sport
    1986 Donzi 18' Classic
    NEVER FORGET 9/11

  12. #177
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    It's been around tanks since the '70's anyway.
    The bad rap it gets has to do w/not following through w/ the other stuff...
    Like properly sealed drain pipes. Donzi, and I suppose others, installed drain pipes w/douple sided foam tape?????? How dumb is that?
    Also no coatings on the tanks. So water penetrates the space, the uncoated tank corrodes, but the real culprit wasn't the foam.
    George Carter
    Central Florida
    gcarter763@aol.com
    http://kineticocentralfl.com/


    “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid"
    Professor Ian Plimer, Adilaide and Melbourne Universities

  13. #178
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    I have no experience with foam so here is a question. I have always assumed that if you roll in a thin layer of foam on the keel of the boat and then set the tank on top, that the foam actually "kicks" and forms an adhesive that grabs onto the bottom of the tank. In addition to structural rigidity, is foam ALSO like Elmers glue?
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  14. #179
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    I've only done a few of these. But the stuff grows and exerts an awful lot of force. The tank has to be in place and withstand that force or you can plan on starting over.
    I can't conceive of playing w/the tank while that's going on.
    That's why I clamp the tank to angles bolted to the stringers.
    I just hope for the best w/the foam.
    George Carter
    Central Florida
    gcarter763@aol.com
    http://kineticocentralfl.com/


    “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid"
    Professor Ian Plimer, Adilaide and Melbourne Universities

  15. #180
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    I agree with George
    It has to be mounted in place to the stringers or the foam will move it all around It finds all the little nooks and crannies and fills them.

    Parnell
    Time forSweet Cheekz to find a new home

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