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Thread: New motor?

  1. #1
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    New motor?

    A while back I posted some questions about expanding our garage to house the Classic and our 911 and my wife's Subaru. We finally have plans and are getting ready to break ground in the next week or two. The garage will be big enough to house a 22 Classic with room to get around it. All was going well and I've been looking for a 22 to replace the 18C. Until now.

    Over the past 18 months we have rebuilt the transom and replaced the stringers in the 18. A new gimble, oil pan, timing cover and chain, exhaust manifolds, risers, exhaust tips, trim tabs, etc. So a lot has been done to the 18.

    The last time out we put about 60 miles on and it was running terrible when I got back. I pulled the plugs and on the port side they looked like they were steam cleaned. The heads were pulled and the port head is cracked. Actually, it's more like a hole rotted through. So the extra money that I would put toward a 22 is now being spent on the motor and I've decided to keep the 18 a bit longer so that the garage can be "finished" so that it's more than just a place to work but also a good place to spend time pondering and maybe watching a race from time to time. Besides, running the 18 in rough water on Tampa Bay or the other surrounding areas can be a ton of fun! So this leads to the question that has been asked many times here; what to replace the stock motor with. Chris from Fitch Powerboat Services has a 377 long block if I can talk him out of it. If not I'm looking for options. I'd like to end up with 350 to 375 hp. Reliability is also important. I'm keeping the Alpha as I don't need to do extreme hole shots but we do pull skier's from time to time on the lake. Skier's don't need hard hole shots.

    Just curious what your thoughts are. There's a lot of knowledge here and I'd like to tap into it before I do something and then later hear "you should have..."

    Thanks,
    Chip

    '96 18 Classic
    '69 16 Ski & Sport - sold


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    If it were me .. I would look around for a newer model 350mag... You will be hard pressed to match the reliability and user friendliness of the 350mag/alpha package . If you can get the 377 block and move over your accys', thats not a bad deal either .
    better to die on your feet, than live on your knees

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    I agree for reliability

    Thanks for the advice. I agree that you can't beat the 350 for user friendly and reliability, but i want more performance than that. With a Mirage 21 I top out at around 58 mph at 4800 rpm. The reason for thinking about going to a 22 is to get into the mid 70's top end or mid 60's without running wot all the time. I can give up a little reliability but I'd rather not have something that gives up at 200 hours. I know there are guys like Carl that put big hours on their BBC's without being in the shop all the time. So that's why I was thinking of the 377 or 383.

    '96 18 Classic
    '69 16 Ski & Sport - sold


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    ----If you are looking for a great motor with a WARRANTEE that actually works go to the Michigan Motorz (correct spelling) website and poke around. They have never let me down and prices are good! And,,,dont pay much attention to horse power as Torque is what gets you that nice high cruise......Bill S

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    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by olredalert View Post
    ----If you are looking for a great motor with a WARRANTEE that actually works go to the Michigan Motorz (correct spelling) website and poke around. They have never let me down and prices are good! And,,,dont pay much attention to horse power as Torque is what gets you that nice high cruise......Bill S
    Thanks Bill. I've looked around on their site. I have a four bolt intake so I'd have to buy an intake mainfold and probably a carb as well. Will my exhaust manifolds and risers bolt on as they're fairly new? I think the other accessories will bolt right on.

    '96 18 Classic
    '69 16 Ski & Sport - sold


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    Chip, since you had this particular type of problem, are you considering closed cooling?
    George Carter
    Central Florida
    gcarter763@aol.com
    http://kineticocentralfl.com/


    “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid"
    Professor Ian Plimer, Adilaide and Melbourne Universities

  7. #7
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    I built a 377 for my cruiser with a clearance GM Performance block from Summit and a rotating assembly from Scat. just waiting on spring to put the flywheel and the exhaust manifolds on then it's going in.

    In the Minx I put in a Dart 400 . That build was a short block from Tri Star. and Eddy heads.


    http://www.tristarengines.com/catalo...ortblocks.html
    machinist ,bore it deeper,ream it bigger, and lap it to a fine finish



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    Quote Originally Posted by gcarter View Post
    Chip, since you had this particular type of problem, are you considering closed cooling?
    I've given that a lot of thought. The crossroads I'm at is I still want to have fun in the 18 but eventually I'll move to a 22, it's what I really want. The closed cooling system should add value in this area and I see full systems are available for $800 to $1,200. The cheaper ones cool the block only while the more expensive are full systems that cool the heads as well. Since the heads are where the problem is (this time) I think I'd want the full system. If money weren't an object it would be fun to put one of the new LS3 motors in with the full system but $16k seem a little pricey.

    '96 18 Classic
    '69 16 Ski & Sport - sold


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    Quote Originally Posted by joseph m. hahnl View Post
    I built a 377 for my cruiser with a clearance GM Performance block from Summit and a rotating assembly from Scat. just waiting on spring to put the flywheel and the exhaust manifolds on then it's going in.

    In the Minx I put in a Dart 400 . That build was a short block from Tri Star. and Eddy heads.
    If I understand correctly I could bolt my exhaust manifolds and risers onto a 377 long block. Would my fly wheel fit or do I need to pick up a new one?

    '96 18 Classic
    '69 16 Ski & Sport - sold


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    As far as the flywheel goes, ya gotta ask if the new engine is internally or externally balanced,
    and what was the configuration of the old engine.
    George Carter
    Central Florida
    gcarter763@aol.com
    http://kineticocentralfl.com/


    “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid"
    Professor Ian Plimer, Adilaide and Melbourne Universities

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcarter View Post
    As far as the flywheel goes, ya gotta ask if the new engine is internally or externally balanced,
    and what was the configuration of the old engine.
    Thanks George. I'll get the configuration off my old one in the next few days. Trying to do this at the same time that we are building the garage and fit work in as well is becoming a challenge. I'm glad it cooled off and got windy or I'd feel like I'm missing our prime boating season!

    '96 18 Classic
    '69 16 Ski & Sport - sold


  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip w View Post
    I've given that a lot of thought. The crossroads I'm at is I still want to have fun in the 18 but eventually I'll move to a 22, it's what I really want. The closed cooling system should add value in this area and I see full systems are available for $800 to $1,200. The cheaper ones cool the block only while the more expensive are full systems that cool the heads as well. Since the heads are where the problem is (this time) I think I'd want the full system. If money weren't an object it would be fun to put one of the new LS3 motors in with the full system but $16k seem a little pricey.

    Actually they're available in two versions. 'Partial system ' or 'Full system'
    In both cases the entire block AND heads are FWC , the difference is that with the full system the exhaust manifold (but not the riser) is covered as well .
    Just because something's old doesn't mean you throw it away !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan's Cloud View Post
    Actually they're available in two versions. 'Partial system ' or 'Full system'
    In both cases the entire block AND heads are FWC , the difference is that with the full system the exhaust manifold (but not the riser) is covered as well .
    Thanks for clarifying that. For a few hundred dollars more it seems to make sense for a full system. Add stainless risers to it and it should be a system that lasts longer than I'll own the boat. And again, a good selling point.

    '96 18 Classic
    '69 16 Ski & Sport - sold


  14. #14
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    There are two (slight) downsides to the 'full system' though.
    One , it needs a bigger heat exchanger than a half system.
    Two , unless you have an exhaust system like Hi-Teks you still have the weak spot in the link which is the manifold/riser gasket and also the chance for the riser to fail or crust up causing raw water dump problems .

    BTW I'm a big fan of FWC systems .
    Just because something's old doesn't mean you throw it away !

  15. #15
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    Yes!
    What Steve said about cooler size.
    Another thing to consider is the need for new manifolds
    w/a full system. You can never get the manifolds clean enough
    so that when you fill the new engine and old manifolds w/pure
    water and antifreeze, the old crud doesn't coming off the surfaces
    and causing problems in the total cooling system.

    It turns out that the most economical system is a "half" size
    cooler and old manifolds.
    George Carter
    Central Florida
    gcarter763@aol.com
    http://kineticocentralfl.com/


    “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid"
    Professor Ian Plimer, Adilaide and Melbourne Universities

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