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Thread: First Donzi ever built?

  1. #241
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    Okay, This topic came up ...again (but, elsewhere).

    So, I just re-read all of the posts from the beginning. I think it helps to have left this alone for a while.... But, here's a thought...

    Given that the Formula Jr. was already in existence... And further, that it was reluctantly sold. We know the Jr. gave rise to the Ski Sporter on paper. So, it follows that a short cut in the development of a similar boat for DONZI could have been a reworking of the Formula Jr. plug and / or a mould.

    This plug could have still been in existence and if so, access would not have been an issue. To modify details of the Jr. to become the Ski Sporter would have taken much less time than starting from scratch to produce a similar boat. Especially if Walt/Don knew what they wanted to change.

    The result would undoubtedly have been closer to a finished product without as much need for performance "adjustments" that also take time ...

    If this is what happened it would have also been a cost saving procedure and might have let Don regain some inner satisfaction after selling the Jr.

    Plausible?
    Sean Conroy,
    1964 Formula Jr. (hull #2) project

    1972 Greavette Sunflash III
    1981 Kavalk Mistral project

    "A man can accomplish anything... as long as he doesn't care who gets the credit."

  2. #242
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    BTW: Fred Darwick says his white / green 9 hour champion (Hot Volvo) boat was NOT a pre-production test mule, and it WAS a production boat. It was Donzi Invoice #67, dated December 10, 1964.

    Fred also relates that four of the six "Hot Volvo" boats went to:

    1) Bob Cox and Ed Joyce of Lauderdale Marina
    2) Fred's own white/green boat (9 hour endurance winner)
    3) A white/blue boat Fred helped a friend buy (Still around Merritt Island, V6 repowered)
    4) Don had a bright green one for Michael.

    Apparently the Interceptor/Eaton combination only made about 45mph and the "Hot Volvo" (as written on his bill of sale) was faster
    Sean Conroy,
    1964 Formula Jr. (hull #2) project

    1972 Greavette Sunflash III
    1981 Kavalk Mistral project

    "A man can accomplish anything... as long as he doesn't care who gets the credit."

  3. #243
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    German Tank problem

    Hey, just found this explanation of the German Tank problem and figured it could be used to estimate our little project here.... Any mathematicians here that want to give a stab?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_tank_problem
    Sean Conroy,
    1964 Formula Jr. (hull #2) project

    1972 Greavette Sunflash III
    1981 Kavalk Mistral project

    "A man can accomplish anything... as long as he doesn't care who gets the credit."

  4. #244
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    That was a fascinating read. Pondering the math, I don't think we're likely to improve upon our existing understanding of the history as compiled through written records and compilations of memories. That said, it's a neat idea just to think about this sort of analysis.
    "I don't have time to get into it, but he went through a lot." -Pulp Fiction

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by woobs View Post
    BTW: Fred Darwick says his white / green 9 hour champion (Hot Volvo) boat was NOT a pre-production test mule, and it WAS a production boat. It was Donzi Invoice #67, dated December 10, 1964.

    Fred also relates that four of the six "Hot Volvo" boats went to:

    1) Bob Cox and Ed Joyce of Lauderdale Marina
    2) Fred's own white/green boat (9 hour endurance winner)
    3) A white/blue boat Fred helped a friend buy (Still around Merritt Island, V6 repowered)
    4) Don had a bright green one for Michael.

    Apparently the Interceptor/Eaton combination only made about 45mph and the "Hot Volvo" (as written on his bill of sale) was faster
    This is correct. Alan Brown brought a 16 Ski Sporter to the Jacksonville show on November 15, 1964. Fred told me that he and his wife never went to the Jax show and bought there boat directly from Don A after the show as a production boat. He recalls that it was the 5th or 6th production hull built while we now know that the 16 boat that went to the Jax show was the 3rd. Fred's invoice date of 12/10/64 meant the boat was very fresh as he won the 9 hour on January 2, 1965.
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  6. #246
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    Mr. Darwick told me that he felt there were 6 Volvo boats made in '64 which were later in the production run (but Alan Brown would know best) the Ford/Eaton boats therefore being first. If boat 6 (Fred's boat) is delivered Dec 10 and at that time there's some boats finished, being finished, some being rigged and some in the mould with two weeks to Christmas...I think there must have been somewhere around 10 - 12 production boats in 1964.

    To look at it another way. If Fred's boat, (hull 6) is the 2nd Volvo (because they knew the Volvo's were faster) of 6 made and the Ford/Eaton boats were built first; that makes at least 10 made in 1964.

    If someone here knows Mr. Brown (and would ask him), it sure would help put an answer to this question.
    Sean Conroy,
    1964 Formula Jr. (hull #2) project

    1972 Greavette Sunflash III
    1981 Kavalk Mistral project

    "A man can accomplish anything... as long as he doesn't care who gets the credit."

  7. #247
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    Cool

    .
    Brown probably will not remember that. His focus in 64/65 was on winning races and chasing skirt, and not in that particular order according to lore.

    Keep in mind how many Donzi race boats were in action in late 1964 that would have required Browns focus. Example - In November there was major preparation underway for the big Miami-to-Key West Offshore Race. This race was critical as it was the last race in the 1964 World Powerboat Championship 6 race series (aka "The Sam Griffith Trophy") which Jim Wynne won that year with Dick Bertram taking second. The race was run on November 6, 1964 and had Wynne in a Donzi 28 (2nd), Jim Breuil (3rd) running his own 36' Breuil diesel, Walt Walters in a second Donzi 28 (4th), Allan Brown in a Donzi 19 Hornet (8th), and Jake Trotter placing 16th in yet a 3rd Donzi 28 . There is/was rumor of a 4th 28 but I can't substantiate it. What Allan Brown did indicate to me with 100% certainty was that the hull he brought to the Jax Boat Show the next week was the first Ski Sporter EVER with a Volvo 200. This was confused by many folks for 15 years. Now, we know that Mr. and Mrs. Darwick's 16 was rigged with a Volvo 100, correct?

    The timeline for 1964 Ski Sporter production could look like this ...........

    July 1, 1964 - Final drawings for the Ski Sporter 16 are printed by legendary designer and living icon Walt Walters who is now 84. The design effort is fast-tracked by the Walters/Aronow 1963 Formula Jr. hull and the 1962 race winning Wynn Mill II driven by Jim Wynne.

    September 1964 - Production starts on the 16 with Hull #1 built. Powerplant and drive was from Eaton Manufacturing, Dearborn Marine Engine Division. It was labeled the "Interceptor" and was a 260ci (Ford) V8 probably making 165hp? Boat was Wonder White with a Grumble Green deck stripe. Walt Walters could verify what power the first one got and if he had an apprentice helping with the design. Call him up. This hull seems to be the one piloted by Allan Brown who is running alongside Jim Wynne in the well known flat water photograph. It has no waterline boot stripe in the photo and notice that the decals show America in front of Great Britain.

    September 1964 - "Popular Boating"' magazine writes that Hull #2 (or #3) is demonstrated at longtime establishment Santana Marine in Coconut Grove Florida running on Dinner Key. The iconic "grab rail" is offered as a $48 option on 1964s. No pictures survive of it at Santana Marine but this hull could be the one a bearded Jim Wynne is piloting alongside Brownie in the same photo referenced above. The hull is Volvo powered and rigged with an AQ drive after Wynne and Volvo President Harald Wiklund introduced the first drive to America in 1959. Which model is on that Santana demo boat, 100 or 200? It does not have a grab rail, and carries the Swedish decal (recognizing Volvo) first followed by America. These three items are identical to the press boat photo. It is white with a red deck stripe and red waterline boot stripe. Very possible that the "press boat" was also the "demo boat" that PB's Dick Borden wrote about in there June 1965 issue.

    October 1964 - Hull #3 (or 2) is built. Power was Volvo/AQ100. It is reviewed in the July 21, 1965 issue of the Swedish performance magazine "Teknikens varld." Many decades later Thomas Ronnberg in Sweden bought and fully restored this 16 and ran it for years. Boat is white with a red deck stripe, no waterline boot stripe and has the 3 gauge dash instrument panel. The 3 gauge panel though seems to be slightly different. Thomas believed it was 1964 hull #2 or #3. Lars on the board would/could contact Ronnberg in Sweden.

    November 15, 1964 - Living legend Allan Brown (now 81) as Sales Manager for the new Donzi Marine, brings Hull #4 (or 3) to the Jax boat show rigged with a Volvo/AQ200, the first 200 imported into the US market, but not the first Ski Sporter hull built as has been assumed by master blasters for decades. Boat is white with a blue deck stripe according to AB. No information on if it had a boot stripe or not. Big K's team at Merc (Bill Steele and Joe Swift) tries to bribe Brownie for a closer look at the brand new Aquamatic technology at Lake X. No dice.

    December 10, 1964 - Fred Darwick (now 74) takes delivery of hull #6 (or 5) with a 4 cyl Volvo power plant making 110hp and an AQ100 drive. The 110 enginet itself had been proven thoroughly, winning 4 ocean races the prior year in a Formula 233. The cost is $3,500 with trailer while printed ads show a price of $3,995 for 16s to the public. Is the lower cost because of the leftover AQ100 drive instead of a newer 200 or is it because Darwick is both a friend and a supplier to Don Aronow? The boat is white with a green stripe and "Hot Volvo" is handwritten on the original Bill of Sale. The boat has just one option, an Aquameter Speedo and carries the American sticker first followed by Sweden below the scripted Donzi Marine. Wearing #11 on the deck and hulls sides, Fred and Judy go out and win the January 2, 1965 "Orange Bowl Regatta 9 Hour" Endurance Race "Class A" in this Ski Sporter. Archive that invoice at Mystic Seaport and then find Bob Cox and Ed Joyce (who ironically raced a Formula 233 in other earlier races) to see if they bought Ski Sporter hull #5. On April 8. 1965 two Donzi 19 Hornets would compete in the Miami-Nassau Ocean Race. One 19 was a converted I/O and ran dual Johnson 90hp motors and was piloted by the team of Bob Cox and Ed Joyce.

    January 15, 1965 - Two (not one) Ski Sporters are shown on the floor at the 55th Annual National Motor Boat Show at the old Coliseum on the UWS of NYC. Also in the booth that day are two 19 foot Donzi's. This is the exact same day that LBJ calls MLK to discuss the Voting Rights Act. The boat show runs from January 15th to January 24th and has 290 boats on the floor. These two 16 hulls were probably built in December 1964 as they would have left Miami a full week earlier to allow for a snow storm cushion. No pictures exist of the booth with those boats but some very rough and unsubstantiated research indicated that the Ski Sporters were red and blue. There is, however, no magazine written account of there colors, power plants, deck stripes or boot stripes. Also unclear who from Donzi manned the booth at this show. There was also some comment that both these Ski Sporters were sold at the NYC show to a dealer in New Orleans.
    .

    Also ........ note that Frank Civitano remembers his Father (who was friends with Don A) buying a Ski Sporter 16 from Don in 1964. Frank was 14 and recalls it being green with a red stripe and the 4th or 5th 16 made. Ask him to confirm the color combo (how could you forget green?) and did the boat have Volvo or Eaton in the back? This green Ski Sporter could possibly be the same green hull that Fred Darwick mentioned Don had put aside for his young son Michael. The hull color green would have been suspect though as there is no records of 1964 hulls being painted a solid color. I would assume that if Darwick and Civitano's recollections are correct the "bright green" was actually Grumble Green which would have been used on later 16s in 1965.

    Also, Also ........... at the time I believe that Mr. Darwick was living in Coconut Grove. Given Santana Marine was also in Coconut Grove, Fred might remember going over to see the Ski Sporter demo that was done there on Dinner Key.

    Third Also ............ do not forget that a very early 16 was given to Bill Muncey as a promo present by Don Aronow. This boat was last sold back in 2009 after a complete restoration. Edward Muncey, son of famed racer and Unlimited Hydroplane Champion Bill Muncey (who died in 1981) would know what the original history of this claimed 1964 hull was. Find him and ask.
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

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