First Donzi ever built?

[Greg Guimond]

Staying focused on the 16 Ski Sporter timeline .............

A. Lets get a picture of the June 30th date stamp
B. Does it take the month of July to construct a wooden plug?
C. Does it take the full month of August to build the mold for the Ski Sporter?

some other benchmarks in the design and production timeframe of other donzi models from paper to plastic. the 21 GT
paper plans july 68 boat started in mold Dec 68

Now this is when Donzi Marine is out of racing and they are solely setup to sell boats and have years of production under their belts. so it looks like a 5-6 month avg from paper to production. I will say Don probably pushed things a bit quicker maybe 4 months or so . So in Nov there are 3 16 built but I would say not many more are made in 64. I will say after the Nov race/jax show focus changes from race operations to the 16 big time

Greg

let's take these dates June 15th and take 4 months and a week or two and you are at the end of OCT this is when you have a completed mold based on the avg shown in my previous post. So production starts in NOV. Logistically speaking the final plan can come later once the offsets are done they can start the plug.

I highly doubt there were only (5) Ski Sporter 16s built in 1964. Walt finishes the final "Plan Overview" on July 1, 1964. It would then take a month to build the wooden plug (July) and then say most of the month of August to build the mold. The 16 was not as complicated as some of the other hulls you mentioned earlier. So on September 1, 1964 out comes 16 hull #1 as shown in the black and white photo below, correct Matty? That leaves four months to build Ski Sporters. I still like the number (10) for 1964 builds but certainly no more than that given what I've pieced together. We also know that two hulls were brought to the New York Boat Show in January, 1965 so those would probably have been built in 1964.

[Greg Guimond]

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The picture above on the right is from a Swedish race magazine dated July 21, 1965. I believe that specific boat was restored and owned by Thomas Roonberg in Sweden for years. He believed it to be 1964 hull #2 or #3.

[Greg Guimond]

Here, courtesy of the .org site is a watermarked picture and ad of Fred Darwick's private 1964 Ski Sporter 16. I'm not going to sell the picture lol. Mr. Darwick believes that his hull was #5 or #6. He bought it directly from Don Aronow and he and his wife never attended the Jacksonville show. They won the 9 hour on January 2, 1965 in the Ski Sporter.

[Greg Guimond]

Donzi was pushing the Ski Sporter and it was noted in this January, 1965 issue of Motor Boating magazine ...........

[mattyboy]

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The picture above on the right is from a Swedish race magazine dated July 21, 1965. I believe that specific boat was restored and owned by Thomas Roonberg in Sweden for years. He believed it to be 1964 hull #2 or #3.

Greg

again I love the way you photoshop the photo is from the cover of tekniken varld a Swedish technical magazine that issue also has an article on the new volvo car
Also the two boats on top are different boats so what hull do you think the press photo is on the top left?

the averages I gave you are from two datapoints in Donzi History both under the same ownwership which was geared to marketing and selling production boats. Both models are no more complicated than tooling up for the first time. The 22 was the same hull they had been building for 15 yrs with just a streched nose. The gt was basically a longer 18 with higher sides. The GT was the only boat that needed tooling they could focus on it at the time it was the only new model at that time. The 22 came along at a time when all the other veteran models were coming to end of life no other RnD going on. The 22 would be the model that would carry Donzi for the next 35 yrs. I would think they would want to get it out as quickly as possible


I do not agree with your timeframe of a month to create the plug and a month to create the mold.
If it was the only thing on their plate maybe 3 months for both . The final drawing again can come later once the offsets are done work on the plug can start so use your June date and take 4 months until a boat goes into the mold. So it took them 5-6 months in 68 and 78 to get a new model from paper to plastic but some how I am to believe they could do that in 2 months in 64 with totally new designs in a world were plastic boats were relatively new???

Does anyone know if their was another designer working for Donzi at the time behind the scenes??? That could work on things when all the other key players were out racing??

[mattyboy]

Greg
no argument on that after the Jax show and their race record in Nov of 64 they went bonkers. That ad about Fred also made it to some of their flyers in 65 and 66

unusual that Fred's hull would have a aq100 and be 5 or 6 and hull 1 or 2 would have an aq 200???? I would think Fred's hull could be the first out of the mold and used as the test platform then sold as they pop a few more out in the end of 64

[mattyboy]

the boat on the left top and bottom is the same boat this boat is what Thomas in sweden thought was the one that Brownie took to the show. I have stated and truly believe that there was a ton of stuff going on at the factory that the main focus was on racing and getting the last of the formulas out of the factory to have the time and room to focus on the new Donzi line up

look at the 16 on the lift lower left what would those boats in the background be ???? formulas being finished????

[Greg Guimond]

Greg, I do not agree with your time frame of a month to create the plug and a month to create the mold. If it was the only thing on their plate maybe 3 months for both. The final drawing again can come later once the offsets are done work on the plug can start so use your June date and take 4 months until a boat goes into the mold. So it took them 5-6 months in 68 and 78 to get a new model from paper to plastic but some how I am to believe they could do that in 2 months in 64 with totally new designs in a world were plastic boats were relatively new???

Does anyone know if their was another designer working for Donzi at the time behind the scenes??? That could work on things when all the other key players were out racing??

Matty, you and I have never built a plug nor a mold, I'm just offering my opinion. I don't think what happened in 1968 and 1978 has any real bearing on what happened at Donzi between June 15, 1964 and December 31, 1964 with demanding Don A at the helm. As the historian, if you are trying to figure out how many Ski Sporters were built in 1964 why don't you just call Walt Walters on the phone and ask him if he had an apprentice designer helping out? Or if he remembers Mr. Darwick's purchase of an early 16. You have Walts contact info. Go to the original sources like I have, call him up.

[Greg Guimond]

I should have the #8 picture next week. The boat is out on the West Coast. Matty, do you have a picture of the Plan Overview date?

No dice on hull #8. Initially the seller said they had the grease pencil markings, then that changed into "he has the original invoice". That finally degraded into this Bill of Sale from a Marina ...........

[Greg Guimond]

Can anyone tell what the last digit is on this 16 marking?

[gcarter]

Matty, you and I have never built a plug nor a mold, I'm just offering my opinion. I don't think what happened in 1968 and 1978 has any real bearing on what happened at Donzi between June 15, 1964 and December 31, 1964 with demanding Don A at the helm. As the historian, if you are trying to figure out how many Ski Sporters were built in 1964 why don't you just call Walt Walters on the phone and ask him if he had an apprentice designer helping out? Or if he remembers Mr. Darwick's purchase of an early 16. You have Walts contact info. Go to the original sources like I have, call him up.

Greg, in todays world, you can create a hull design on a computer screen, forward the file via the internet to a mold maker/generator who can generate a mold directly w/o any intermediate steps. It still takes time.
In the '60's, the plug builder was essentially building a wooden hull upside down on a strongback.....pretty normal stuff in that period of time, but very time consuming.
The only time saving I can visualize would be to farm out the plug to a wooden boat builder. There were plenty of them at the time right there in the Ft. Lauderdale/Miami area. If that individual/shop could prioritize the project, it could be done relatively quickly.
The mold would have had to be built by glass people.
As an example, when I was in school, I worked as an apprentice pattern maker. The shop i worked for contracted for a plug for a 43' production sail boat.
I left before it was finished but it took 6 months or so to build. A plug has to be a much higher quality wooden hull than a typical wooden boat is.

[jl1962]

Can anyone tell what the last digit is on this 16 marking?

16-339.
The boat is currently listed on eBay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1966-Donzi-C...wer_Motorboats

George - do you recall which production 43' sailboat the plug was for?

[gcarter]

George - do you recall which production 43' sailboat the plug was for?

The time period was about '65-'66. and it was for a local Houston builder of trailable 20'-25' sail boats (sorry, but I can't remember the name) that had delusions of grandeur. I know the plug and mold were completed and maybe one hull was popped out. It may have been rigged and shown, but I seriously doubt if any more were produced, although I do recall some magazine advertisements for it. It seemed to be reminiscent of a Cal-40 w/a slightly longer keel....but it was a very long time ago.

[Greg Guimond]

Greg, in todays world, you can create a hull design on a computer screen, forward the file via the internet to a mold maker/generator who can generate a mold directly w/o any intermediate steps. It still takes time.
In the '60's, the plug builder was essentially building a wooden hull upside down on a strongback.....pretty normal stuff in that period of time, but very time consuming.
The only time saving I can visualize would be to farm out the plug to a wooden boat builder. There were plenty of them at the time right there in the Ft. Lauderdale/Miami area. If that individual/shop could prioritize the project, it could be done relatively quickly.
The mold would have had to be built by glass people.
As an example, when I was in school, I worked as an apprentice pattern maker. The shop i worked for contracted for a plug for a 43' production sail boat.
I left before it was finished but it took 6 months or so to build. A plug has to be a much higher quality wooden hull than a typical wooden boat is.

George, that is excellent feedback based on your real world experience. In my mind I'm seeing Don A being a slave driver of sorts when he started the company in 1964. If it took 6 months to build a plug for the 43' sailboat how long do you think it would have taken Donzi to build the much smaller 16 Ski Sporter? I have no experience and was not born back then but isn't it a lot easier and quicker to build a small low profile 16 footer wooden plug? It takes me longer to build 5,000 sq ft of house then it does 2,500 sq ft so just wondering.

Of course, Walt Walters would probably remember exactly how long it took as he was there. I could call him but I got busy taking my 16 out for a spin on a November day yesterday.

[gcarter]

In '68 and '69, I was working at the Cape for Bendix. A guy I worked with was developing a canoe ("Gheenie", I think they're still in production in Titusville, FL).
He built his own plug and mold, but it took him the better part of a year to get it right.
A professional should be able to do it quicker. But those parts have to be perfect!!!!!!!!!