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Thread: Donzi Marine 63-65

  1. #46
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    The Magnum Missle was a copy of the Austrian racing champ and boatbuilder, Dieter Schulze. Don bought a 16' and a 19' and copied both of them. After we sold Donzi to the Chisholms, I worked the 1968 Miami Boat Show for Don selling the 16' missle. The demo boat had a 135 Merc, and ran 65 mph. It would make a 30' circle at that speed. Anyone with an underwear concession at the dock would have made a fortune, if you get my drift.
    BROWNIE

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ALLAN BROWN View Post
    GOOD ANSWER ON THE NAME. WYNNE/WALTERS EXISTED BEFORE AND AFTER DONZI. WYNNE/ARONOW FELL OUT IN '65. WHEN WYNNE WON THE VIAREGGIO-BASTIA RACE IN '65, HE TOOK OFF HIS RACING JACKET AND SHOWED AN 009 SHIRT, AS AN OBVIOUS SWIPE AT ARONOW'S 007 AND 008. 64 TO 67, WE ONLY USED GEOGRAPHICAL FLAGS AND THE DONZI FLAG, WHICH LOOKED SUSPICIOUSLY LIKE A MERCEDES EMBLEM. THEY SUED OUR ASS, AND WHEN THE CHISHOLMS BOUGHT THE COMPANY, THEY DREAMED UP THE LION/DOLPHIN THING. THE 35' MOLDS WERE FINISHED (HULL ONLY) DURING THE TELEFLEX SALE PERIOD. TELEFLEX GAVE IT TO DON IN RETURN FOR HIS USING DONZI ON HIS RACEBOATS, AND HE STARTED MAGNUM (WHICH I NAMED AFTER A GAS PUMP IN AN OLD HUMPHREY BOGART MOVIE). WE FINSHED AND SOLD A FEW 14' DONZI PEANUTS, MOSTLY WITH VOLVO ENGINES. IT WAS A LETHAL LITTLE S.O.B. B.B. DONZI, MIKE, IS THAT YOU?

    BROWNIE

    interesting ......

  3. #48
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    To the top ...........
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  4. #49
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    Lots of interesting reading in these four pages. Where did all these people go? Great stuff. What made you bring it to the surface Greg? Glad you did.

  5. #50
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    I have been rummaging through old threads trying to find information that might help me ID the 1965 Gerry Walin OB 16 over the months. No luck on the 1965 but you certainly run across some interesting stuff. I don't know but maybe Big Bad Donzi is Michael Aronow?
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  6. #51
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    interesting comment by Brownie that the few 14's had Volvo's..
    Charter Member - WAFNC, SBBR, KWOSG
    1955 Perfect Mate
    1986 Hornet III, 502-415 TRS

    www.donzi.org


  7. #52
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    Great reading.... been going through a lot of old posts recently
    Sean Conroy,
    1964 Formula Jr. (hull #2) project

    1972 Greavette Sunflash III
    1981 Kavalk Mistral project

    "A man can accomplish anything... as long as he doesn't care who gets the credit."

  8. #53
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    BIG BAD DONZI is Michael Aronow if I'm not mistaken.
    Lake St. Clair, Lake Huron, Lake Erie, Lake Oakland

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIG BAD DONZI View Post
    No knock aqainst Peter Guerke as he was one of the best but Don wanted results and he wanted results quickly. He wanted designs capable of obtaining optimum speed in the roughest conditions. Don played the game learning by observation and through trial and error. The more he watched and the more he competed, it became clear to him that the only naval architects with the abililty to design a V that could outrun Raymond Hunt's Bertrams and Sonny Levi's outstanding and unique Italian designs were the Americans, Jim Wynne and Walt Walters who, in Don's opinion were the two most knowledgeable marine engineers in the business. Peter Gurkes's 27' was a beautiful boat, but in truth did not have the racing lines Don sought.( Sure enough, she was purchased by Marlin Boatworks in North Carolina and became a top notch sport-fisherman) Wynnne and Walters were hired and Wynne and Walters delivered.
    The son of the founder of Marlin Boat Works is still here: David Hartman, of Hornet Boats fame.

    Also notice the courtesy Michael payed to Sonny Levi, a true genius and at about 85 is still working.
    The following is an excerpt of a two part seminar presented by Michael Peters, probably the premier fast boat designer in business:

    "In preparing for this presentation, I
    came to further appreciate four books
    that have probably meant the most
    to me in my professional career. In
    alphabetical order, they are: Dhows to
    Deltas, by Renato “Sonny” Levi (published
    in 1971); Elements of Yacht
    Design, by Norman Skene (Skene’s own
    1938 revision was recently reissued by
    WoodenBoat Publications); High-Speed
    Small Craft, by Commander Peter Du
    Cane (first published in 1951); and
    Naval Architecture of Planing Hulls, by
    Lindsay Lord (first published in 1946).
    Now, I’m what I call a pretengineer.
    I’m not an engineer. I’m not a naval
    architect. So everything I do relies on
    somebody to set me straight and
    interpret it. In revisiting these books I
    realized the person I really learned everything
    from was Sonny Levi. Anyway, I
    would encourage people to read those
    four references. Updated editions exist
    in all cases except Levi’s.


    I have all these books, and purchased them more than 35 years ago. If you want more than picture books, and really want to learn something about boat design, find them and read them.

    One more point about Michael Peters, in the same seminar, he presented his "Peter's Principles" in which the main thing he says is: "Copy, Copy, Copy"

    • Believe in the basic tenets of naval architecture. Never skip any steps
    in the design process. No matter how tedious and boring weight studies
    might be, they are unquestionably the most crucial part of design.
    • Always copy someone. The only way to improve is to understand
    what has been done before. Be a student of history. Always analyze what
    others have done, both good and bad, in order to create a baseline
    of design.
    • Breakthroughs come slowly. Have faith that there will always be
    another project, enabling you to try your ideas in controlled increments.
    Resist the temptation to try all your ideas at once.
    • Always get someone else to pay to try your ideas. A true design
    breakthrough can be made only with willing partners who understand
    the risk. Nothing new can be done without risk. Finding people who
    appreciate this maxim—and give you the freedom to fail—is critical to
    exploring new ideas.
    —Michael Peters
    George Carter
    Central Florida
    gcarter763@aol.com
    http://kineticocentralfl.com/


    “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid"
    Professor Ian Plimer, Adilaide and Melbourne Universities

  10. #55
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    George, is that "Marlin" the company that was out of Oregon I believe?
    1972 16 OB - C16B-63 - "Surface Tension" Resto Project
    1974 16 OB - DMR16106017-B - "The Mule"

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Guimond View Post
    George, is that "Marlin" the company that was out of Oregon I believe?

    Michael's quote above says North Carolina.
    George Carter
    Central Florida
    gcarter763@aol.com
    http://kineticocentralfl.com/


    “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid"
    Professor Ian Plimer, Adilaide and Melbourne Universities

  12. #57
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    Two things come to mind .
    There seems to be conflicting stories on the origin of the Magnum Missile . And I'm not going to question either of the sources ! Maybe in time the facts will come out .

    Secondly , Brownie continues to be a fountain of information . The story about how the name 'Magnum' came about is interesting to say the least.

    I find it amazing how there's some off the wall story about how Formula , Donzi , Magnum and Cigarette all ended up with their names .

    Especially when you put it in the context of today's business founder struggling to come up with a new and fresh company name that will never end up becoming a legend. Or just one of us battling over a name for our boats or homes .
    Just because something's old doesn't mean you throw it away !

  13. #58
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    Allan Brown is a living bible on U.S. hull design.

    A quote from Allan Brown(Brownie).
    Quote:
    "Mike, I hope you don't mind my piling my recollections on top of yours. Two small points: The builder of the original wooden missiles, 16' and 19' was Dieter Schulze. The missile took up too much room in the small glass shot to create enough bucks to make it worthwhile."

    A reply from Michael Aronow.
    Quote:
    "No problem AB, I welcome your input and appreciate the help, - after all, you were there on the street all week while I was in school. As to your post:
    You are right on. Dieter did indeed build the wooden 16' and 19' and true enough, there was not enough room in the 'shop' to make producing the Missiles worthwhile when the money was in the larger Magnums.
    One more interesting little footnote: The Missile molds ended up in the vacant field next to plant 1 at Cigarette, along with that large group of discarded molds and other mold parts, etc. and with all the change of ownerships going on over the years, I do not believe that any of new owners were ever aware of it."

    A reply below from a fella that glassed them all.
    Quote:
    "A set of 16' molds ended up with Randy Rabe @ Rabco cir. 1977. I put together a few of them. (Hated crawling up in the nose to glass the deck and hull together).
    Rabco sold and resold over the years but I think the original mold or a copy is still with them somewhere in Sarasota last I heard. Randy built somewhere around twenty of them I think."

    P.S. Always appreciate when you honor Sonny Levy in your comments George. D.S.
    LARS THE SWEDE

  14. #59
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    Legendary thread, courtesy of OSO, by Brownie.

    http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...at-design.html

    I quote a few highlights from the thread:

    #1
    BROWNIE
    My Boats:
    4 BOATS KILLED
    Location
    MIAMI, FL

    Original milestones in hi-perf boat design.

    "In the late 50's, Ray Hunt built the original Deep Vee. It wasn't any faster in calm water, but it rode better in the rough. Dick Bertram had a 30 footer built (of wood) and ran it in the 1960 Miami-Nassau race. It averaged a blazing 22 MPH! A record that will never be broken! Since it was the 'only game in town', many of the former flat flat bottomed, tree wood, underpowered racers bought the fiberglass version, and it became the world standard of offshore racing. A 25' version followed, then the development of the Mercruiser and Volvo outdrives (instruments of the Devil). Engines got bigger and bigger, until some of the Bertrams could hit 60 mph. The Bertram/Hunt hull design was heavily patented, and was never successfully copied (who would want to)?

    Along came the South Florida version of the 'carpetbaggers', who started cranking out deep vee's by the score. Who were they? A teenaged Harry Schoell did the Alim V-20, Jim Wynne and Walt Walters did the Wyn-Mil II, 17' precursor to the Formula Jr. Then they did the Formula 233 for Aronow. They later used similar lines to create the Donzi 16', 19', 28' and 35'. Long after, builders used those original boats to make "new" models. The 35' Donzi was given to Aronow by Teleflex in return for his breaking the non-compete clause (he did that a lot). The 35' Magnum was stretched to 38' then to 40', then to 44' and it got better and better as it got longer and longer. Then, they took the lines of the 40' Magnum, stretched them lengthwise a couple of feet, and expanded one and one quarter times to become the 53' Magnum. Aronow had previously used this trick to build the 49' Cary, which was exactly one and one half times expansion of the 32' Cary/Cigarette. The 28' Magnum, 32' Cary/Cigarette, 35' Cigarette were all Harry Schoell. Harry also did the 23' Magnum which became the basis for a hundred 7' wide hulls and boat companies. The was not much else. More later."
    LARS THE SWEDE

  15. #60
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    Smile Brownie has alluded to the possibility of a book.

    #2
    BROWNIE

    Further to shrinking and stretching.

    "Harry built the 28' Magnum for Don, and it became a popular racer. Don cut it down vertically to make the 27 and 28 foot Magnum Sport models. He swiped one when he sold Magnum to Apeco, and turned it into the 28' Cigarette. The 32' Cary/Cigarette was stretched to 36', then to 40', back to 39', up to 44' (Performer), down to 37' (Midnight Express) back to 36' (Mirage), down to 33' (Avanti) back to 32' (Contender, et al). The 35' went to 37 1/2", 38', 39' 41' (Apache), 44' (Slingshot), 47' (Apache), split for USA cat.
    The 23' Magnum became P and D, Excalibur, Superboat, and maybe 50 others.
    Linder did the excellent 21' Challenger which became, Apache and several others.
    The 32' Cary/Cigarette and the 35' Cigarette are entirely different. The 36' chine was drawn with a #43 Kand E ships curve, and the 35' chine is straight for the first 12'."
    Attached Images Attached Images
    LARS THE SWEDE

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