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yeller
09-26-2016, 12:22 AM
It only took 4 years to swap out my 496 to the 502, so it only makes sense to swap out the 502 after 4 runs..................doesn't it. :boggled:

I just got news that I'm losing my storage for the boat at the end of December so that's pushing up the schedule for the LS3 swap. I planned to sell some stuff to fund this project, but now I'll just have to order the parts to get it done asap and hope my wife doesn't check the visa card. :nilly:

So the plan is to boost the LS3 with about 10lbs, which should put it well over 600hp.
I'm strongly considering installing a blow off valve and setting up the SC to about 15lbs and wasting the excess 5lbs of boost. That will allow the SC to produce boost earlier and build power sooner, but still not grenade the engine at the top end. I still need to do a bit more research on that

I want to increase the ring gap to help avoid having the ring ends butting and snapping the top ring land off the piston. Of course that requires a total engine disassembly, which I did today.

85132


...............And now I have a bunch of left over parts. Make me an offer. :biggrin.:

85133



I'll need to get a new harmonic balancer because the stock one doesn't have any bolt holes to accept the SC pulley. I also have to get a flywheel to bolt the coupler to, and Comp Cams make a rocker arm trunnion upgrade kit for the rocker arms. From what I have found out, the stock rockers are decent, but trunnions are the weak link. Also need a new cam, exhaust manifolds and bigger injectors. Will probably call Bob Madera?? for the cam and Marine Power makes an aluminum exhaust manifold for only $225 a side. I'm pretty sure I can make the risers off my 496HO fit the manifolds.
The expensive purchase will be the computer to run this thing. Not sure yet what brand I'll get.

yeller
09-26-2016, 12:32 AM
The construction of the LS3 is pretty impressive. Considering how well this motor was finished and the thought put into it, I was quite surprised to find they didn't clean up the bottom of the bores.
You know how when you drill metal, the back side will usually have burrs/flakes of metal. That's what was on the bottom of the bores, when they drilled the block for the cylinder sleeves.

I picked up several pieces of aluminum from every bore. Will definitely be cleaning that up before reassemble. The pictures don't really show how bad it was and I picked up a lot more metal than whats shown on my finger. I got 3 to 6 pieces the size shown on my finger from each bore, just from rubbing my finger on it. That's a lot of metal to be floating around a new engine.

gcarter
09-26-2016, 05:39 PM
I was wondering why the cam wasn't in the "not needed" pile.

Speaking of the stock finish....one of the reasons I used a Dart block
was because several folks told me how much cleaner and better finished
they were compared to a new Bow Tie block, for instance.
Considering how so much of your new engine is robot assembled, and the
tolerances they're built to, I suspect that if the unfinished bore bottoms
turned into a problem, they'd generate a cleanup fix to take care of it.

I was curious,.....is this a direct injection engine?

yeller
09-26-2016, 10:49 PM
It is not direct injected. The new versions (LT1/LT4) are and also have VVT.

On another note, I now believe I can use the stock cam. I had misinterpreted the information I had read earlier and it shouldn't have reversion issues. That's good news for my wallet.

Carl C
09-27-2016, 12:33 PM
Is there a reason you are ditching the proven 502?

gcarter
09-27-2016, 02:57 PM
Does this engine have iron cylinder liners?

duckhunter
09-27-2016, 07:09 PM
Awesome project - blown LS will make a killer engine for your 22. With the cost of parts coming down I'm kinda surprised we haven't seen more of these.



I'll need to get a new harmonic balancer because the stock one doesn't have any bolt holes to accept the SC pulley.

If you're trying to avoid unnecessary spending (and who isn't?), you can probably reuse your stock balancer. Just get the jig to drill/tap for your S/C pulley. Pretty common practice.

Keep us posted on your progress!

gcarter
09-27-2016, 07:26 PM
Awesome project - blown LS will make a killer engine for your 22. With the cost of parts coming down I'm kinda surprised we haven't seen more of these.



If you're trying to avoid unnecessary spending (and who isn't?), you can probably reuse your stock balancer. Just get the jig to drill/tap for your S/C pulley. Pretty common practice.

Keep us posted on your progress!

I'm sure a local machine shop could do it for under $50. I know my local shop would.
Sure beats several hundred for an new balancer.

yeller
09-27-2016, 11:05 PM
Is there a reason you are ditching the proven 502?
Yes. To go with the proven LS3. :kingme:

I've just always wanted to do an all aluminum small block.....long before the LS3. I like the idea of weight savings and will love the extra room in the engine compartment. It's the current 502 I have, that sent me over the edge and made me pull the trigger.

85145

It's just too big. If I drop something in the bilge, I can't reach in to get it.




Does this engine have iron cylinder liners?
Yes it does.



If you're trying to avoid unnecessary spending (and who isn't?), you can probably reuse your stock balancer. Just get the jig to drill/tap for your S/C pulley. Pretty common practice.I have thought about that. I'm very hesitant because the 3 "arms?" on the balancer are very thin. I'm concerned there isn't enough meat there to support the strain of the blower pulley

Carl C
09-28-2016, 06:37 AM
[QUOTE=yeller;665570]Yes. To go with the proven LS3. :kingme:
I've just always wanted to do an all aluminum small block.....long before the LS3. I like the idea of weight savings and will love the extra room in the engine compartment. It's the current 502 I have, that sent me over the edge and made me pull the trigger.
85145
It's just too big. If I drop something in the bilge, I can't reach in to get it. [QUOTE]

That looks so damn AWESOME though! You should be solidly in the 90s. Anyway, a lot of us will be anxiously following your new project because, like you, I have a crapload of weight in back. :alligator (where are the yellow billet battery boxes?)

gcarter
09-28-2016, 12:08 PM
I have thought about that. I'm very hesitant because the 3 "arms?" on the balancer are very thin. I'm concerned there isn't enough meat there to support the strain of the blower pulley

This is a good reason to go w/a new balancer.

tmdog
09-28-2016, 04:15 PM
[QUOTE=yeller;665570]

85145

It's just too big. If I drop something in the bilge, I can't reach in to get it.



Looks like you have twins .........stuffed.:)

CHACHI
09-29-2016, 08:02 AM
This has the makings of a great thread.

Glen, I am glad you have to keep busy.

Ken

yeller
09-29-2016, 12:21 PM
This has the makings of a great thread.

Glen, I am glad you have to keep busy.

KenI'm only doing this for you guys. Now that George is done, someone has to pick up the gauntlet. :biggrin.:

gcarter
09-29-2016, 12:26 PM
I'm only doing this for you guys. Now that George is done, someone has to pick up the gauntlet. :biggrin.:

And it gives me an opportunity to chime in on other threads.

CHACHI
09-29-2016, 02:29 PM
Love both of you guys.

Ken

Pat McPherson
09-30-2016, 10:26 AM
I'm only doing this for you guys. Now that George is done, someone has to pick up the gauntlet. :biggrin.:

Thank you!

Carl C
09-30-2016, 11:35 AM
I say leave it alone and enjoy it with the blown 502. :cool:

tmdog
09-30-2016, 06:10 PM
I say leave it alone and enjoy it with the blown 502. :cool:

^^^^^^^
What he says.

gcarter
09-30-2016, 08:32 PM
My suggestion to Glen was to build a monster, (say 570 in) NA engine.
At least he'd have more room w/o the blower on it.

Ghost
09-30-2016, 08:43 PM
As long as it's SEM, I'd vote for either the LS or the monster cubes. I dig both ideas.

Someday I'd like to do a 572, so GO LS!

yeller
09-30-2016, 11:34 PM
I say leave it alone and enjoy it with the blown 502. :cool:


^^^^^^^
What he says.


My suggestion to Glen was to build a monster, (say 570 in) NA engine.
At least he'd have more room w/o the blower on it.
Sorry to disappoint you, but Big Blocks are old school. Gotta change with the times. Out with the old and in with the new.........LS3!
:biggrin.: :pimp:

chip w
10-04-2016, 04:26 PM
Sorry to disappoint you, but Big Blocks are old school. Gotta change with the times. Out with the old and in with the new.........LS3!
:biggrin.: :pimp:

Can't wait to follow the thread and see how this turns out. I had been thinking about a NA LS3 for my 18. Or sell it and buy a 22. Tough decisions but your project will be fun to watch!

Pat McPherson
10-04-2016, 06:14 PM
Easier to make torque with a big block but a stroker LS with a supercharger should work nicely😁 My boat excelerates like no other boat I've had with the stock 502. Not sure a small block could duplicate without a supercharger👍

JayZ
10-07-2016, 10:31 AM
This is an awesome idea. ...but I gotta ask are you trying to challenge George for the longest build?

yeller
10-09-2016, 11:48 PM
Can't wait to follow the thread and see how this turns out. I had been thinking about a NA LS3 for my 18. Or sell it and buy a 22. Tough decisions but your project will be fun to watch!I'd think a LS3 would be THE ticket for an 18. :yes:


Easier to make torque with a big block but a stroker LS with a supercharger should work nicely My boat excelerates like no other boat I've had with the stock 502. Not sure a small block could duplicate without a superchargerI agree, you can't beat cubic inches for building torque, and I'll certainly be giving up a bunch of it (especially on the bottom end). If I was going from a stock 502 to a S/C'd LS3, I doubt I'd notice any loss, but going from a SC'd BB to a SC'd SB, I'm sure I'll notice some loss. I hope to minimize the loss, by running more boost in the LS. I'm also strongly considering a blow-off valve so I can set up the SC to (potentially) make 15lbs of boost, but open the valve at 10lbs and waste the excess. That would help to build TQ and HP sooner in the rpm range.


This is an awesome idea. ...but I gotta ask are you trying to challenge George for the longest build?
Man....I certainly hope not....... :biggrin.:

yeller
10-09-2016, 11:57 PM
Haven't done much yet with the build. Ground the loose burrs off the inside of the motor and quickly ran the grinder over the entire block just to smooth it out a bit. Nothing too detailed, just a quick grind. Then I washed it several times, blew the water off, and oiled it down. I checked all clearances on the crank and rods, just for peace of mind, then reinstalled the crank, cam, timing set and oil pump. That's as far as I've got for now.

yeller
10-10-2016, 12:06 AM
I had already installed the oil pump and a few days later I was doing a google search for a crank pulley that would work with the Procharger and the LS3 damper and just happened to come across a thread about installing an oil pump. I consider myself lucky that I found that. Apparently, you can't just bolt on the crank driven pump. If you do, you could end up with incorrect tolerances and break the pump gear.

So I had to loosen the pump and remove the pump cover to clearance the gears. It took three 0.008 gauges for the inner gear to crank clearance and four 0.0025 gauges for the outer gear ring to housing clearance. I only had one 0.0025 gauge so I had to sacrifice it and cut it into 4 pieces.
The housing gets torqued while all the gauges are in place. If it's not done this way, the housing could end up too far to one side and the gears could bind.

yeller
10-10-2016, 12:19 AM
Here's a few picks of the LS3 to see how it's made, in case anyone is interested.

A close up pick of the bore sleeves, because George had asked about them earlier.

85255


The crank driven oil pump, timing chain and chain tensioner. (Chain is a single roller)

85256


Full windage tray

85257


Six bolt mains. Four on the caps for the crank and two on the side of the block to tie the caps to the block. The full width mains I'm guessing are to ad rigidity to the entire block. The rods are the nicest factory rods I've ever seen. In person, it's easy to see why these are rods are superior to the forged rods in earlier motors.

85258

yeller
10-10-2016, 12:22 AM
Heads with stainless steel exhaust valves.

85259


Rocker arms are interesting. Notice the offset intake rocker and the metal that was removed to save weight.

85260


The flat top pistons which give the motor a 10.7:1 compression. Fairly high for a boosted application, but it seems they handle 10lbs of boost fairly reliably....with good tuning of course. You can also see the lifter 'holders' above the piston. The head gasket is in the way, but you can grab the 'holder' and pull out 4 lifters at a time. The way this is designed, you don't have to remove the intake or lifters to change the cam, but you do have to remove the heads if you want to get at the lifters.

85261


A pic of the valve cover. They could be a decent looking cover, but the mounts for the coils ruin them. I'm going to relocate the coils, cut the mounts off and grind and polish them. I'll then paint the indented lines......yellow of course. :)

85262

yeller
10-10-2016, 12:39 AM
Ready for gapping the rings. (Hopefully next weekend). Always too cheap to buy the right tool for the job, I put my angle drill in bondage to make my own ring grinder. :boggled:

The nylon rings that are screwed to the base, hold the ring square to the grinding wheel and the high-end lamp :rolleyes: helps me make sure it is. I also bought a 6 x's magnifying glass that I'll use to make 100% sure the ends are ground square.
Currently the top rings are gapped 0.012 and the 2nd rings are 0.014. I plan to open them up another 0.010.

gcarter
10-10-2016, 02:04 PM
Glen, this post has nothing to do with your project.
But I wish someone would build one of these as a
NA marine engine.
They're not cheap, and they have an iron block,
they'd require different forged pistons w/a lower C/R,
oil pump, water pump, pan, intake manifold, carb,
ignition controller, cam, and etc!!!!
But it looks to me like a great package w/lots of
torque in a small package!

yeller
10-11-2016, 11:58 AM
I agree George. I'd like to see one of those in a boat too.
If money was no object, I'd be buying this:
http://www.racingheadservice.com/rhs/ls-aluminum-race-block-finish-honed-9-750-tall-deck-4-165-borehtml/

Could make an all aluminum 500ci monster.

yeller
10-11-2016, 12:05 PM
I also think the new LT4 has to be one of the best deals out there for a street rod. 650hp from an OEM with warranty and under $16k.
http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines/lt4.html

It's pretty amazing the power the manufacturers are selling these days. I remember when you were the king with 350hp.

Pat McPherson
10-11-2016, 12:48 PM
http://gmpowertrain.com/2013_pdf/FHR_REV_6.2LSA_Marine_010713.pdf

Pat McPherson
10-11-2016, 12:50 PM
http://gmpowertrain.com/2013_pdf/M_Vert_Gen5_6.2%28L86%29_020315.pdf

Why doesn't Merc use these?

gcarter
10-11-2016, 12:51 PM
I agree George. I'd like to see one of those in a boat too.
If money was no object, I'd be buying this:
http://www.racingheadservice.com/rhs/ls-aluminum-race-block-finish-honed-9-750-tall-deck-4-165-borehtml/

Could make an all aluminum 500ci monster.

Ya know, I paid about 45% of that number for my iron Dart block..........of course, that's just the starting point.

yeller
10-24-2016, 12:35 AM
Had some parts come in!

Exhaust manifolds, head bolts, damper bolt, and LS9 7 layer head gaskets.

yeller
10-24-2016, 12:37 AM
Getting the head bolts and gaskets meant I could bolt the engine back together.
I didn't paint the oil pan because I still need to do some work on that. I want to enlarge the front section of the pan so it will hold a couple more quarts.
Still need to finish up the polishing on the valve cover. It's only about half way done.

yeller
10-24-2016, 12:45 AM
I was excited about getting the exhaust, until I did a test a fit.
They drilled the holes a good 1/4" off from where they should be! Essentially they are useless as they are.

In the first pic, I cut a piece of cardboard to match the head ports. The pen marks show where the hidden part of the exhaust port is. This is what would be blocked if I bolted them on as is.

The second pic shows a stock LS exhaust gasket on the manifold. The stock gasket is actually larger than the the LS head ports, yet it still blocks a ton of the manifold port.

In the third pic, I marked the manifold with a felt pen to show where the holes should have been drilled.

Finally, in the forth pic, you can see that the holes are not centered to where the manifold was designed for them to be.

I sent an email to Marine Power, requesting they take these back and send me a new set. I would expect them to cover shipping both ways as well. We'll see how it goes. If I don't hear back by tomorrow afternoon, I'll give them a call.

yeller
10-24-2016, 01:00 AM
If I end up using a set of the Marine Power manifolds, I will need to adapt my 496 risers to them.

The pics below show the difference between the manifolds and the riser. I knew I'd have to adapt the mating surface, so this wasn't a surprise to me. I had hoped the difference would be as much as it is though. To mate the two, I'll get a piece of 1" aluminum plate and cut/grind the opening to flow from the rectangular outlet to the circular inlet.

The two holes on the top of the manifold are for the stock marine power risers. They supplied plugs for those and I will install fittings in the holes on the side to feed the risers.

Carl C
10-24-2016, 08:24 AM
So the heads have round exhaust ports and the new manifolds are rectangular? Also nothing lines up. Are they even designed for this engine?

yeller
10-24-2016, 01:06 PM
The heads are actually a "D" port. I was a bit surprised to see that the manifolds weren't designed with a D port also. The difference isn't very much though, provided they are lined up correctly. The manifold ports are only slightly larger than the heads, and only in the "corners" of the manifold port.

As an fyi, the factory GM exhaust manifolds are also larger than the head ports, but are circular.

yeller
10-24-2016, 01:09 PM
Marine Power responded to email and said they are looking into it. Mine are one of the 1st of 50 sets that they just made. I asked that they get back to me this afternoon.

yeller
10-25-2016, 03:50 PM
Marine Power said they will send me a new set with a shipping label to return these ones. :clap:

I was told these were for a Gen 5 motor and mine is a Gen 4. Doesn't really jive, because a Gen 5 is the LT1/4 and uses a different 5 bolt pattern as opposed to 6 bolts for the LS. Regardless, I'm just glad they will exchange these and I didn't have to argue about shipping costs.

Still have my fingers crossed until the new ones actually show up, though.


If these manifolds do actually play double duty for the LS and LT motors, that would somewhat explain your point Carl about the mis-matched shape of the ports.
The LT motors look to have a more rectangular port than the LS, so these may be a closer fit for the LT's

gcarter
10-25-2016, 06:09 PM
Glen, as long as the manifold ports are larger than the heads, it shouldn't make any difference since your engine is blown.
Maybe, at worst, a little massaging will work.

Carl C
10-25-2016, 06:24 PM
Good luck. Sounds like good customer service.

yeller
10-27-2016, 07:04 PM
Glen, as long as the manifold ports are larger than the heads, it shouldn't make any difference since your engine is blown.
Maybe, at worst, a little massaging will work.
I'm not at all concerned about the ports being slightly larger. I doubt there is a manifold or header on the market that mates perfectly to a head port.
As long as the ports line up, there would be very little porting required to match them, but from some of the research I've been doing lately, a slightly larger manifold port can actually be a good thing as it can help prevent reversion.

yeller
10-31-2016, 02:24 AM
Marine Power was set to send me a replacement set of manifolds, but I wasn't sure the new ones would be any better. They said they bolted them to a block they had in the shop and they fit. I had to re-explain to them that bolting to the block wasn't the problem, it was the mis-matched port alignment that was the issue. I asked that they double check against a gasket before sending. After a couple hours, they got back to me and said it looks like the entire run of manifolds they just made, may be faulty. :eek: I think someones going to be in a whole lot of trouble over that. That was near the end of day Friday and didn't hear back after that. I imagine there was a bit of chaos going on afterwards, (and probably will be at the start of the week) so I figured I'd wait until the middle of the week before contacting them again.

For now, I'm at a bit of a stand-still with the LS until I get a new harmonic damper and S/C pulley. The brackets for the PS pump, alternator and S/C all have to be custom made, but I can't proceed until I know where the crank S/C pulley will sit.

In the meantime, I pulled the 502. I'm am so happy to have it out. :yes: It took up sooooooo much room. Truth be told, the motor itself wasn't really the problem, it was everything else. The M3 procharger is a monster. The closed cooling with all the hoses consumed so much space. Even the CMI headers took up more room that stock manifolds. I just couldn't get at anything.
When I started to put this motor in, I took a lot of time to make sure the wiring was neat and hidden as much as possible, and carefully planned out the cooling hoses to be neat and tidy. Then it turned out the heat exchanger I had was the wrong type, so I had to replace it. That required rerouting most of the hoses. Then I had a few electrical issues, but by hiding most of the wires behind the engine, it was a complete nightmare to diagnose the problems. In the end, both the wiring and the hoses ended up being a total mess.

This time, it will be different. :rolleyes: :lookaroun:

I do really want to free up as much space as I can though. You can see the hose mess in the pic below. I plan to re-solder the twin inlets on the HE (at the top of the pic) so they face each other, and that way I can run a hose straight across to a T-fitting and eliminate one hose. I'm also going to try and see if I can mount the HE on the back of the motor or transom to free up the front of the bilge of hoses. Not sure if I can make that work, though.
Mr Carter is not going to like this one.....but I will probably get rid of the crank driven water pump as well. They are definitely easier to change impellers, but again, it pulls two more hoses around to the front of the engine. The real issue though (for me) was that it makes it a pita to change the belt because you have to remove either the pump or both hoses.
In order to free up even more space, I've also decide to ditch the Q&Q exhaust. I do like having it around the dock and when I'm idling around talking, but it's not worth the space the diverters and Y-pipe take up. I run the mufflers, so it's not overly loud anyways, and I assume the small block will be slightly quieter than the big block.

It sure was nice having the drive jack/stand, when I pulled the drive. First time I actually got to use it. No sore back muscles. Just unbolt the drive, set the stand in place, and roll the drive out of the way. Should have made one of these years ago. It's not really made for a BH, but easy enough to adapt it.

Greg Guimond
11-01-2016, 07:17 PM
You got yourself a cool project going Glen. :clap:

yeller
11-02-2016, 04:18 PM
Thanks Greg. I'm really looking forward to trying it out.
I'm stalled right now because I just can't pull the trigger on a new damper and S/C pulley. I didn't count on the damper replacement and there's not a lot of options out there that accommodate an SC pulley. So far, the cheapest setup I've come up with is close to $500. With the Cdn exchange and 12% tax I'm looking at around $750. That's a lot of coin, just to be able to run an SC pulley.

I keep trying to figure out ways/options to do it cheaper. I woke up at 3am this morning, convinced I'd thought of a solution, but when I checked my damper, I was wrong......again. :frown:

RickSE
11-03-2016, 10:26 AM
Glen, can't one of us buy it down here and send it to you? Do you still have to pay all the tax? I have competition accounts with Summit and Jegs that also give some discounts. Send me a part number. :)

yeller
11-03-2016, 01:26 PM
I appreciate the offer Rick. The tax is due at the border. It's our wonderful Cdn sales tax. 7% provincial and 5% federal. I get all my orders sent to a US address (at the border) and go across to pick it up. It saves me the brokerage fees. Anything over $100~150, and you usually have to pay the tax, (unless I stay in the US for a certain length of time).

Ed Donnelly
11-04-2016, 10:10 AM
Yeller, use the trick I used to bring back my steering. I told customs I took all the parts with me to sell in the states, but , the buyer decided not to buy.
Customs was ok with that.....until..... He told me there would NOT have been taxes because the parts were built in Vancouver DUH!!!!!!!

yeller
11-07-2016, 07:16 PM
Not worth the risk IMO Ed. I will admit, border security scares the crap out of me.

yeller
11-07-2016, 07:33 PM
I decided to order a stock Corvette style harmonic damper and an ATI S/C crank pulley. The pulley is designed to bolt to an ATI damper, but I believe I can get a spacer made and adapt it to the Corvette damper. I couldn't do this with the damper that came with the motor, because there isn't enough meat to tap it for bolts, and the surface isn't flat. I should get the parts later this week. So next weekend I should be able to start fabricating the mounting plates for the S/C, altenator, and P/S pump.

I did a test fit of the motor this weekend, so I'd have an idea of where/how I could mount everything. I also made some adaptor plates for the motor mounts. The LS uses 4 mounting bolts further back than the traditional 3 bolt design.

Another gift came by UPS this week. I ordered new fuel rails, because I can't feed each bank individually with the stock ones, and there is no return line either.

yeller
11-07-2016, 07:46 PM
It looks like I won't have to cut new transom holes for the exhaust. That's a relief. :yes: They don't line up perfect, but without the Q&Q, there is enough distance that the exhaust hose can flex over enough to make it work. Still probably going to do some transom work though. I'm thinking more and more about re-positioning my trim tabs to the conventional position of parallel with the boat bottom. I didn't get a lot of time testing them mounted horizontally, but enough to know that I wasn't overly happy with how they acted.

In the continued quest to increase the free space, I'm removing my subwoofers and will install them somewhere up front. I'll have to make a new "firewall", of course. I'll also be removing all the faux checker plate. I personally like the look, but it isn't holding up like I had hoped. Also, after seeing pics of Trueser's bilge in his Criterion, I really, really like the smooth finished look. I probably won't go to the extent he did...simply because I'm not that patient, but I'll knock down the roughest spots and give it an overall once over with the grinder.

Really looking forward to more fiberglass dust.............:boggled:

gcarter
11-07-2016, 08:42 PM
Glen, I like the cantilevered mounts. What material are you planning to use?

Just an opinion...and everyone has a few......
Why replace the "firewall? Granted, the center of the back seat needs the
support under the deck to keep it from cracking, but out to the sides, it does nothing.
Remember, every 22 before 1994 didn't have a firewall.
The reason I even mention it is there's a lot of room under the rear seat that can be useful.

yeller
11-08-2016, 12:14 PM
Glen, I like the cantilevered mounts. What material are you planning to use?The adaptor plates? Those are 1/4" steel. The funky curves around the bolt holes are because the piece of metal I had was 1/2" to small, so I had to overlap the template.


Just an opinion...and everyone has a few......
Why replace the "firewall? Granted, the center of the back seat needs the
support under the deck to keep it from cracking, but out to the sides, it does nothing.
Remember, every 22 before 1994 didn't have a firewall.
The reason I even mention it is there's a lot of room under the rear seat that can be useful.I have thought of that George, or even a modified version. Once I removed my speakers, I was looking at the space behind the wall and was picturing all the equipment you were able to install in that space. I do like the finished look the wall provides though, so I'm kind of on the fence. I though about modifying the wall to allow space for the batteries. Like most things I do, whatever I build, I'll probably change it later. :biggrin.:

On a side note, and an update to the exhaust manifold issue. Marine Power realized the error on my manifolds is on every one they just made. They are replacing mine. They just don't have any in stock at the moment.
Time for a new shop foreman IMO if he allows an entire run of manifolds to be made without even checking one of them.

Pat McPherson
11-08-2016, 03:15 PM
I was pulling the battery out of my boat last night and dropped a nut and washer down. Man, the older and fatter I get, the tougher it gets to fish stuff out from under the engine...

RickSE
11-09-2016, 01:57 PM
Is your diamond plate the plastic version?

yeller
11-10-2016, 12:46 PM
Yes it is. It holds up reasonably well to the oils and fuel, but I've scratched it up pretty good from repeatedly stepping on it while working on the motor. They put the chrome finish on the surface of the clear plastic. If it was on the underside of the clear, it would have worked for me.

yeller
11-14-2016, 10:07 PM
Not too much to update. A couple more parts came in. The Corvette style damper and the crank S/C pulley.
Also picked up some plate aluminum for making the S/C and accessories mounts, as well as a chunk of round stock which will become the pulley spacer.

S/C pulley is 8.6". The one that came with the procharger was 6.5". I went with a much larger crank pulley so I don't have to go as small on the S/C unit, to try and avoid belt slip. On the HO motor, the S/C was making 3.5~4lbs of boost. I am guessing.....and only guessing, that it will pick up a couple lbs when on the small block. The larger crank pulley should bump it up 2 or 3 lbs more, so maybe I'll be around 8~9lbs. I have absolutely no data to back this guess up with, so I could be anywhere with the boost. I won't know until I fire it up, and then I can change the unit pulley to hit the boost I want.

I added a pic that shows both the damper that came with the motor and the Corvette damper. Side by side, it's easy to see why I didn't want to drill the original damper to take the S/C pulley. Way to thin on the metal.

I spent almost the entire weekend trying the alternator, P/S pump and S/C in different locations, to see what would work best. I waste a lot of time overthinking things, instead of just doing. In the end, I decided on the exact same locations as I planned to use before I even started. :boggled:
I took a bunch of measurements and pulled the motor in order to start fabbing the mounting brackets. I have a good plan now, so hopefully I should be able to knock those out next weekend.

yeller
11-14-2016, 10:13 PM
I also decided to use the stock water (circulating) pump and reuse the crank pump. It really just came down to cash. I couldn't justify buying two new pumps.
Also ordered the flywheel and a few fuel connections. Those should arrive by the end of the week. That gives me enough parts get the motor completed, short of wiring and the computer. I am assuming, of course, that Marine Power comes through fairly soon with replacement manifolds

Pat McPherson
11-15-2016, 09:12 AM
Thanks for sharing...

Fishermanjm
11-15-2016, 10:17 AM
where did u get the drive stand/jack??? How much??? I need one
for sure. I will be getting into gimbal service work this off
season an my back can't take that bravo drive punishment any
more
Jim

yeller
11-15-2016, 02:53 PM
Made it myself:

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?71026-Drive-jack-and-stand&highlight=

Can't believe I waited so long to make one. No more straining the back to re/re the drive.

yeller
11-23-2016, 01:52 PM
Weekly update......isn't much.

Didn't get my mounting brackets done as planned. I bought a new aluminum cut blade for my chop saw and it was horribly out of balance. I had to chase the saw around the garage trying to make a cut. Too late on Saturday to take it back and couldn't find anyplace that sold one on the Sunday. I did find a 7.5" one, so I installed it on my tile saw. It worked, but the cutting was slooooooooooooooowwwwwwww. Better part of 4 hrs just to get the rough cutting done on the S/C bracket. The only thing I did get completed was one side of the coil relocation bracket. I'm mounting the coils low, under the exhaust. I want to get the coils off the top of the engine and putting them below the exhaust will go a long way in cleaning up the looks, plus I can use the stock wires and save a bit of $. Phone died, so no pics for now.

Manifold update: Marine Power is making new manifolds. It's going to be a month or two until I get replacements though. In the meantime, they have no problem with me keeping the current ones to use for mock ups. They'll send me shipping label to get them back whenever I'm done.
Customer service gets an 8 out of 10. They have always responded instantly to any email I send them, but they never keep me updated. I always have to contact them, so they lose 2 points for that. :biggrin.: Wouldn't hesitate to deal with them again.
Motor isn't going to be ready to run in the next couple months, so I don't mind waiting.

yeller
12-08-2016, 12:42 PM
Thought I'd update........just to let you know there is no update. :rolleyes:

Had to relocate the boat and shop. Lots of organizing needing to get done at the new place before I can get the boat inside and have room to work. The new shop is only 21' deep, so I'll have to build a redneck extension for the boat. :biggrin.:
Could easily be the new year before I can get back at it.

chip w
12-08-2016, 12:58 PM
Sorry to hear that you had to move your shop. Or maybe it was a good move? Anyway, moving and reorganizing is no fun but at least you know what you have when you're done and hopefully where everything is. Good luck. Looking forward to hearing more about the swap once you get back to it.

Carl C
12-08-2016, 02:01 PM
Get movin' man! Between this project and the Arneson project there is a lot to look forward to! :cool!:

JayZ
12-10-2016, 07:38 PM
Can't wait to hear about the twin turbo marinized eco-boost engine that goes in after this LS-3. J/k. Couldn't resist though

yeller
01-16-2017, 02:11 AM
Can't wait to hear about the twin turbo marinized eco-boost engine that goes in after this LS-3. J/k. Couldn't resist thoughDon't laugh. I've wanted to see one of those in my boat too! I think it would be an awesome engine for a 16 or 18. :yes:


Been over a month since I've added to this thread. My new storage is a tad smaller than what I had before, so it took some thought (and time) to get everything organized to maximize the space. We're between houses so the boat and my tools share the storage with our household stuff. Boat is still outside (under cover) until I build a redneck extension to the garage, but at least I have my shop set up so I can get some work done.

Still haven't decided on a computer for the motor yet, but I picked up a factory engine harness from a CTV and stripped it down and pulled out the connectors I need, so they are ready to go once I know what connector will go on the other end.

85591

I finally got around to getting a machinist to make the S/C pulley spacer and some S/C bracket spacers. I also had him lightly turn the face of the damper for a smooth finish.

85592

The damper end of the spacer was hogged out to clear the damper bolt and the pulley end has two steps. One for the pulley and the smaller one for the crank water pump.

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I drilled the spacer and tapped the damper for the attaching bolts. The 3 extra holes on the spacer (which I drilled and tapped) were for "insurance" bolts, so I would have 6 bolts holding on the S/C pulley. I had forgot that once the water pump is installed, the pulley would be fully "sandwiched" between the spacer and the pump flange and I can't use the extra bolts. :bonk:

85595

yeller
01-16-2017, 02:29 AM
The LS3 is an all metric engine and the damper/crank bolt is an M16 which isn't easily purchased. I don't need the bolt for the damper, but I needed a long bolt or some rod, to install the damper. I don't like installing dampers by cranking them on with the bolt. Puts too much stress on the crank threads IMO, so I like to install a rod and use a nut to push the damper on. Then most of the stress is on the rod/nut instead. Only telling you all this because I couldn't find M16 rod, so I took the old damper bolt and lengthened it by cutting off the head and welding on some 1/2" rod. Well, my weld wasn't good enough and I snapped off the rod, leaving a chunk of the bolt in the crank. :boggled: It was in pretty tight and I'm sure my extractor was on the verge of breaking, just before the bolt loosened up. Pretty nervous for a while, until I got it out.

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Still had to get the damper on, so this time I notched the bolt and rod so they overlapped and I could get a better/longer weld. No problem the second try. I used a special, hi-tech rod that would let me know when the damper was fully seated. You can tell it worked by the missing threads. :biggrin.:

85598

yeller
01-16-2017, 02:36 AM
Here's a pic of my coil relocation bracket.

85599

And one of the S/C mounting bracket that I roughly cut before Christmas

85600

And finished up with bottom support and spacers installed. (The pulleys do line up. Just doesn't look like it in the pic)

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I still to have machine a recess into the mount (where the green tape is) for the belt tensioner and I haven't decided yet whether to polish it, paint it, or hydrodip.

yeller
01-16-2017, 02:55 AM
And some good news......we just bought a lot and will be building a new house.....and more importantly, a GARAGE! :yes: We've been renting since we moved in 09 for our business. It will be nice to have our own place again. My wife is super excited about having a new home. I guess a new home is ok......but I'm super excited to have my own garage. Does that make me a redneck? :biggrin.: Not enough room to build the shop I really want, but it will be deep enough to hold the boat.

22classic
01-16-2017, 03:45 AM
Who cares where you live, You need to finish that boat!

p.s. congrats on the new place!

CHACHI
01-16-2017, 08:41 AM
Glen, you just love keeping balloons in the air.....

Congrats on the house.

chip w
01-16-2017, 09:28 AM
Cool beans on the house and especially the garage. I have the same issue about not enough space for the shop I want, but we are breaking ground in the next few weeks to expand our existing garage. When finished I'll have 32'8" in depth, 22' wide with a small work area of 8' x 10' off the side for the bench, cabinets and tools. Small but better than nothing. So getting a garage big enough to hold your boat is awesome! Congrats!!

Ghost
01-16-2017, 11:46 AM
Congrats--a garage that fits the boat is awesome.

yeller
01-31-2017, 08:36 PM
Thanks for the congrats guys. :wavey:

....and Ken, yes I do tend to keep busy. I'm actually pretty lazy, but I just can't seem to relax. Makes sense doesn't it? :boggled:
Must be because I'm a Gemini. Twin personalities....

yeller
01-31-2017, 08:40 PM
Was reading through my own thread to remind myself what I've done so far. Yes, my memory is getting that bad.

I noticed a couple things that I'd like to correct. Not really important info, but wanted to correct anyways.

Originally I said I was going to upgrade the rocker trunnions because they have been identified as a weak link. I decided not to bother, because I figure most failures have probably been due to guys adding bigger cams, stronger spring pressures, and revving higher. I'm keeping it all stock and won't be revving anywhere near the 6600rpm redline.

At one point I said that you don't have to remove the intake to remove the cam, but you do have to remove the heads. Not sure what I was thinking when I said that. Neither intake or heads have to be removed to pull out the cam. You just have to release the spring pressure and rotate the cam 360deg. The lifter baskets will hold the lifters up, out of the way and the cam can come straight out.

That's it. Like I said, not important......but now I can finally sleep good. :)

yeller
01-31-2017, 09:07 PM
I had almost forgot that I didn't have a PS pump. Actually, I had forgot.......I just recently remembered.

I didn't want to use the Saginaw that was on the 502, because I couldn't mount it where I wanted to, due to it's size. The TC size pumps are smaller and would go where I wanted. Just didn't know which one to buy. So off to the wrecker to look over the different vehicles and ended up with a pump from a 2002-2008 Chev Trailblazer. I'm not really overly concerned whether the pump is any good or not, although I suspect it is. The wrecker was just the best/cheapest way to find out what I can make work. $30 for the pump/pulley/reservoir as well as a couple needed idler pulleys and mounting bushings.
I thought I was going to be able to use the reservoir. That is why I picked this particular pump, but turns out it wouldn't fit where I wanted to mount the pump. Not too big of a deal. My back up plan was to use a remote reservoir anyways.

85641 85642

I made a PS pump bracket out of 3/4" aluminum and welded up a new mounting bracket for the belt tension that I had previously used on the 502. I cut down the mounting bosses on the water pump for the belt tensioner and I got lucky and pulley alignment worked out perfect first try. The tensioner isn't mounted in the pic, but the belt shows the path it will take

85644 85643

In order to mount the belt tensioner for the S/C, I need to mill a 3" spot on the S/C mount. So I set up my "milling machine" :biggrin.: and went to work. It requires some serious manhandling of the metal...but it works. Just pretty slowly.

85645

I'll get some pics of the PS mount and tension later this week.

yeller
01-31-2017, 09:19 PM
Now that I had all the pulleys and parts to complete the serpentine belt setup, I discovered I am going to have to get a new spacer made for the crank S/C pulley. I forgot I needed to add an idler on the right side of the motor, because of the reverse rotation water pump, so I didn't set up the S/C mount to accomodate that. I ended up having to space the S/C mount 1/4" further forward to allow clearance for the idler pulley. Initially I thought I could simple space the S/C 1/4" off the mount to compensate, but I can't make the S/C belt tensioner work if I do. I could source a different tensioner, but it'll probably be easier just to get a new spacer made 1/4" longer.
The aluminum round stock is about $10/inch. Glad I only need 5" and not a few feet.

Carl C
02-01-2017, 06:40 AM
Good to see that you are getting things done!

gcarter
02-01-2017, 11:10 AM
You'll like the Type II P/S pump. I used the original Hynautic reservoir and put about 5 PSI
of air pressure in it.
My steering system is the most reliable system on the boat. I never think about it.

yeller
02-01-2017, 01:22 PM
Not sure I fully understand George. Is that normal to add air pressure to the Hynautic reservoir?

Morgan's Cloud
02-01-2017, 02:13 PM
Not sure I fully understand George. Is that normal to add air pressure to the Hynautic reservoir?

My Hynautic system is far from brand new but it does need to be pressurized once it's all set up . I can't recall the pressure needed but there's a psi gauge on top of the reservoir that needs to be monitored . I keep a small bicycle tyre pump on board all the time as part of the basic tool kit .

I seem to recall that a few years after I had mine put in Teleflex came out with a similar non high performance system that had no reservoir nor did it need pressurizing .

gcarter
02-01-2017, 03:17 PM
Not sure I fully understand George. Is that normal to add air pressure to the Hynautic reservoir?

Glen, you may remember Carl tried to use a Type II pump
w/o a reservoir and found he couldn't run in rough water w/o one due to entrained air.
After adding one, he still had occasional problems but it was better.
In my case, the Hynautic reservoir is quite large and holds about
4-5 pints and have a positive pressure on top of the fluid. This was necessary w/the original Hynautic system which wasn't boosted and had a 25# charge to make sure the system was always charged.
I'm keeping the reservoir about 1/4 full and about 5 PSI air charge which keeps fluid in the suction side of the system air free.

yeller
02-03-2017, 01:34 AM
Thanks for the explanation guys.
George, I'd think the air pressure would also help in preventing the fluid from aerating as it enters the reservoir from the high pressure side...or maybe that's what you where trying to tell me.

I had a TC pump on the 496, so I know it'll work for me. I just couldn't use that one because the inlet/outlet were 180deg from where I needed them.

yeller
02-22-2017, 10:16 AM
Things are moving slowly. Doing bits and pieces.

Serpentine setup is basically finished. Just need to get a slightly smaller belt, and waiting on my new spacers before I fully bolt down the S/C bracket. I had to slightly modify my tensioner bracket because it was hitting the P/S pump pulley. Not a big deal; just had to cut it down from a 3-hole mount to 2

85672

Here's a pic of the finished coil relocation setup and alternator bracket. .....well it may not actually be completely finished. I was looking online for a starter and realized the coil bracket is going to hit the starter solenoid. I'm hoping I'll only have to space it out a bit to clear.

85673

When you have to custom make everything, there seems to be an endless cycle of pieces not fitting; even when you're positive you have everything worked out.
Even the bolts gave me a problem. I countersunk the bolt holes in the alternator bracket, so I could "sink" the heads of the allen bolts. Then when I buy new bolts, the heads are larger than the bolts I've purchased in the past. Had to grind down the heads of 7 S/S bolts. Took a lot longer than expected and did a pretty good job of wearing down my grinding wheel.

85674

yeller
02-22-2017, 10:46 AM
I had planned to use the reservoir below for my PS pump but now I'm not sure. I got it when I purchased my steering setup (years ago) from CP Performance, but never put it into use. I was looking inside and I think they built it incorrectly. There is a baffle inside that runs diagonally from top to bottom. I believe its purpose should be to help reduce foaming of the fluid as it enters the tank. The way it's built, both the inlet and outlet are on the same side of the baffle. I think they should be on opposite sides. That allows the fluid entering the tank to "settle down" prior to the pump drawing the fluid out.
Maybe I'm over-analyzing....

85675

I started making the fuel lines for the motor. I'm feeding the two fuel rails individually (from the front). Most setups I see run the rails in series. That's the way the Holley instructions show. I know a series setup would work, but I'd always have that 0.001% of concern that the last injector could run dry and lean out that cylinder. So for an extra couple feet of line, why not be super-safe.
Made a small bracket to mount the Y-block to the back of the head. Will have a -10 going in and -6 feeding each rail and a -6 return.
Need to order two 30deg fittings in order to finish it off.

85676 85677

Discovered (the hard way) that you can't set the rocker arm bolts on the head if you remove them. The LS3 has some significant sized oil drain holes that I wasn't paying attention to when I was reinstalling the rocker arms. Put the 2" long bolt down on the head and heard "tink". Uh-oh. :boggled: Dropped down to the lifter. Took a while, but I was just barely able to grab it with my flexible tongs and pull it out. Otherwise, I would have had to pull the head.

85678

yeller
02-22-2017, 11:03 AM
Another one of the projects for this engine is to convert the Drive By Wire throttle body to cable. Yes, I could buy a cable TB, but where's the fun in that? :biggrin.:

So I removed the motor and put it in the "for sale" pile; removed the butterfly and knocked the shaft out. Just to make things interesting, I broke the return-spring tab.

85680 85681 85679

I was able to bend the spring end and fit it into the same spot as the idle spring.

85683 85682

I then drilled and tapped the end of the shaft, so I can screw a shaft extension on. I still need to make an extension and I'll probably end up welding it in place, but screwing the two together will make welding a lot easier. I also need to make a cover plate to replace the (removed) motor and then pick up and install a throttle position sensor. The shaft for the TBS is already there and is long enough to protrude past the cover plate.

85684 85685 85686

yeller
02-22-2017, 11:10 AM
I had decided to polish the supercharger, so I broke it down to make it easier to work with. I didn't get too far and I'm not sure I'll continue. The casting is fairly rough and it'll take hours and hours to get it done. I put it aside for now and might chip away at it...or I might get impatient and paint it.
But in case you've ever wondered, here's what the inside of a procharger looks like. Just a set of 4:1 step-up gears and an impeller. The thin disc which looks like the middle sized gear in the pic is just an oil slinger.

85687 85688

BUIZILLA
02-22-2017, 02:12 PM
find someone with a walnut shell tumbler :lookaroun:

duckhunter
02-23-2017, 07:05 PM
yeller, it looks great so far! Keep it up, you're getting down to the short hairs.

It was 70 here today. I'd be thinking about bolting the blower up as-is and polishing that sucker next winter!

FarPoint
02-23-2017, 08:34 PM
Hey Glen, thanks for the shop tour today. Beautiful 22, your rigging and all the custom fab. work is impressive! Way beyond what i would tackle. Let me know if you ever need an extra pair of hands - I'm usually in the area mid week and happy to help.

yeller
02-24-2017, 03:36 AM
find someone with a walnut shell tumbler :lookaroun: Thanks for the suggestion. No doubt that would work, but I'm not really looking to spend any money on cleaning up the SC. If I can find the time to polish it up a bit, I will. Otherwise I'll just paint it.


yeller, it looks great so far! Keep it up, you're getting down to the short hairs.

It was 70 here today. I'd be thinking about bolting the blower up as-is and polishing that sucker next winter!
Looks like it's getting close, but I still have to make a wiring harness, find an ECU and learn how to tune, relocate the tabs, replace the bulkhead/firewall, replumb the closed cooling system, smooth out the bilge and paint it, and on, and on, and............


Hey Glen, thanks for the shop tour today. Beautiful 22, your rigging and all the custom fab. work is impressive! Way beyond what i would tackle. Let me know if you ever need an extra pair of hands - I'm usually in the area mid week and happy to help.Glad you could stop by. I think you just pretend to be impressed. Anyone that's been racing most of their life and cruises the water in a 150mph skater, probably knows a thing or two about boats.. :yes:

FarPoint
02-25-2017, 10:52 PM
I am impressed. Hanging on to the wheel is one thing - You're actually designing and building all this on your own. Outta my league.

And -the Skater aint that fast!

Don't forget - i hope you're available when I get my 22 out for 1st run. I will definitely need your help and experience.

Ghost
02-25-2017, 10:59 PM
+1, some amazing folks here with amazing skills.

yeller
02-28-2017, 01:56 PM
Thanks guys, but I don't post a lot of my "mistakes". For every success I post a picture of, there is probably 3 or 4 failures lying at my feet. :biggrin.:

I just like to be able to tell people "I made that", instead of "I bought that", even though it would often be cheaper if I would have just clicked the Buy button.

yeller
02-28-2017, 02:33 PM
I was looking over all that I had left to do and came to the conclusion that I should listen to others and just get the damn boat in the water. It's still going to take me a while to finish off the necessities, but I decided to forgo the tab relocation and general cleaning and reorganizing of the bilge equipment.
It's going to take long enough to simply finish the wiring harness, ecu, and learn to tune the efi, but hopefully with the reduced workload I can drop it in the water sometime in April.
I can always pull the motor next winter to redo the tabs and bilge. I had earmarked next winter for a complete interior replacement, so we'll see how that goes. I have plans to update the interior in a way that the purists won't like.............but that's for your next winter's reading enjoyment. :biggrin.:

I still don't know exactly which ecu I'm going to use, but I have to make up my mind pretty quick. I originally planned on the Megasquirt, but as time went on I started to lean towards the Holley, because of its reputation for being easier to tune. The Megasquirt has price on its side (provided you buy the build-it-yourself kit), but the Holley should have a shorter learning curve. I was about to buy a Holley and then I found out you have to use a Holley O2 sensor, and they cost $220. It's also only a LSU4.2 sensor, which the auto industry stopped using many years ago. I can overlook using the inferior sensor, but the cost is tough to swallow. The Megasquirt can use the newer LSU4.9 sensor and those can be had for under $100. I need 2 to start and it is quite possible I could kill a couple of them, because O2 sensors do not like water. It could get very expensive buying the Holley sensors. What to do....what to do...:confused:


On Sunday a stopped by the shop and knocked out the throttle body cover plate, that was needed due to the removal of the DBW motor.
Also made the mounting bracket for the PS pump reservoir. The CP Performance reservior I posted a pic of earlier just looked too bulky on the motor, so I ended up using the stock 496 tank

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yeller
03-19-2017, 12:00 AM
Finally made a decision on a computer. Decided to go with a Megasquirt. Of course, I always like to add to my workload whenever possible :boggled: so I ordered the kit form. Will start with assembly tomorrow. Wife has gone to India for 3 weeks, so I'm hoping to get a bunch of work done while she's gone. :wrench:

In the end, I couldn't justify an extra $900 to get into the Holley. I'm into the MS for about $650 and as odd it may sound, I really like the idea of building it myself. For the longest time, I was concerned about finding a tuner, but when I really started to think about it....AFR's are what they are. The needed AFR's aren't going to change based on the system I'm using and if a tuner is halfway decent, he should be able to tune any system. Hopefully I'll be able to set up all the initial parameters and get the motor running; then I'll get it on a dyno to dial it in better. After that, I'm cautiously optimistic that I'll learn enough to play with the settings myself.

yeller
03-19-2017, 12:14 AM
The one thing I really do not like about the MS is the connectors. Crappy, old, outdated DB37 connectors.

The take-off wiring harness I purchased was complete with the factory GM ECU 73 pin and 80 pin connectors. The pins were easily removable so I looked around and found the matching 80 pin header and connector pins. I plan on ditching the two DB37's and using the header I bought on the MS enclosure instead. The coil of pins are for the stock GM connector. I'll have to make some modifications to the MS enclosure...or make a new one, but I think this setup will be a lot better. I'm hoping I can end up making the entire enclosure waterproof; or at least water resistant.

yeller
03-19-2017, 12:30 AM
I still need to purchase a couple O2 sensors and controllers, as well as set of injectors. I keep checking the LS and Corvette forums hoping to snag a deal on the injectors. I'm leaving those to the very end in case a deal pops up. I'm pretty sure I'll be ordering the O2 sensors and controllers early next week. As it sits right now, the O2 controllers will be the raw board and components, so I can integrate them into the same ECU enclosure.

The final big item is still the exhaust manifolds. Five months later and I still haven't been able to get a replacement set. At this point, I 75% believe Marine Power will come through. They still always answer my emails, but they say they don't have any themselves, because their casting company is back-ordered. The latest is Marine Power will be taking a deliver at the end of this month or early next month; then they have to machine them. I've been told they have a bunch of motors sitting to go out that need the manifolds, so if what they are saying is true; I'm hopeful they'll save a set for me. In my opinion, (and of course I'm biased) I should be their number one priority. They didn't even know they had an issue until I brought it to their attention. If I hadn't said anything, they would have sent out a bunch of bad manifolds to other motor companies (like Michigan Marine), as well as delivered their own motors...all with bad manifolds. That could have ended up being a nightmare for them. I've been extremely patient, but I admit, it's running pretty thin. I'll be contacting them again at the end of the month and we'll see what they say.

HallJ
03-19-2017, 09:25 PM
What has steered you away from the GM ECU?

Jeff

JayZ
03-20-2017, 05:45 PM
Dyno tuning will be your friend. Just went through this with A whole lot of help from my friends on my old Porsche 911

22classic
03-21-2017, 12:53 PM
Looking great! Keep up the good work!

yeller
03-21-2017, 05:13 PM
Jay, I agree. The dyno will not only get the tune better, but also save me a bunch of time. I imagine I will still have to tweak it a bit once it's in the boat, but the dyno should get it 95% there.


What has steered you away from the GM ECU?
JeffLooked into this as that is what most LS guys are using; even those with boosted applications. From what I could find out there isn't a company that will unlock the ecu for life. They sell you "credits" to flash the ecu. Once the credits are used up, you have to buy more.
The stock ecu is the cheaper way to go if you only need to flash the ecu a few times, but I expect to have to flash it a whole bunch of times and the stock setup would end up being exorbitantly expensive in the long run.


22Classic: waiting for the your test data. :drive: :)

Carl C
03-21-2017, 05:56 PM
Looking good. Hope you get the exhaust soon. :alligator

HallJ
03-21-2017, 08:39 PM
You buy a license per ECU. Did you look at EFI live? The knock control algorithim in the GM ECU would be desirable for a supercharged high compression engine like the LS3. Did you change out the pistons? I may have missed that.

Jeff

yeller
03-24-2017, 03:55 PM
Actually Jeff, I did not. I had seen mention of EFI Live, but thought it was the same as HP Tuners (which sells credits).

I'm not sure if it would have swayed my decision though. If it was only $400 maybe, but at $900, may as well go aftermarket and have greater control over the function of the I/O's. If you haven't noticed, I have Stockitis. (The fear of anything "stock"). I was diagnosed as a young child when I took a saw to my lego's in order to modify them. :biggrin.:


.....I did not change the pistons and I will have two knock sensors with the MegaSquirt.

HallJ
03-25-2017, 10:57 AM
One of the things I like about the megasquirt is the documentation, it's extremely thorough!!!
Are you aware that the knock sensor doesn't directly interface to the ecu?

Jeff

yeller
03-25-2017, 03:42 PM
I'm adding the knock module, which solders directly to the main board.
https://www.diyautotune.com/product/ms3-knock-module-kit/
I am aware though, that it's difficult to get the knock working properly.

MS documentation is good to a point. I found the assembly instructions a bit vague in some areas. Luckily the MS forum had the answers I needed as it was easy to find someone who had the same questions.

The area that the MS falls flat is if you need to make any changes. Getting a definitive answer on making changes can be somewhat difficult.
Example is; I have used up all the "documented" inputs, but want to monitor oil pressure. There are 2 inputs which are assigned for CanBus communication. I am not using those and was told by one of the top MS guys that they can be reconfigured as analog or digital inputs. Trouble is, he won't tell me exactly how. I posted a diagram and explanation of how I "thought" it could be done and he kind of, maybe, possibly said it would work. I'm not 100% sure if he said it would work. He didn't say "no", so I have to take that as a yes.

In case you're interested, I'll have the following inputs;
2 x knock, 2 x O2, engine temp, intake air temp, throttle position, manifold pressure, barometric pressure, fuel pressure, oil pressure, cam & crank position, low meth.
And the following outputs:
8 x spark, 8 x injector, fuel pump, tach, low pressure relay.

You can't set up the MS to directly monitor the oil or fuel pressure and put the engine into limp mode (on low pressure), so I plan to trigger an output relay on low oil/fuel pressure and wire the relay to the low methanol input. MS can monitor low meth and set a limp mode.

HallJ
03-25-2017, 06:54 PM
Do you really need the baro sensor?
Could you put the oil pressure on that channel instead?

Jeff

yeller
03-27-2017, 04:54 AM
I do boat at different elevations, so the baro is something I want.
The MS has enough inputs for what I want, just a bit confusing in how to wire the last one up.

I've been forced to get a better understanding in how the MS works electronically, as I did a bonehead move and killed a couple of the components.
I powered it up to do a bench test and didn't notice the board was sitting on a strand of bare wire and it shorted a couple of the components. One of them smoked, but I didn't see exactly which one and there was no visible damage. Spent the entire weekend brushing up on my electronics knowledge and troubleshooting the board. I'm 60% confident I found the offending parts and hopefully I can pick up replacements locally.

yeller
03-30-2017, 07:47 PM
Ok, I really feel like an idiot now. I don't think the "wire" that I thought had shorted the MS board, actually did. I'd been chasing a component problem for 3 solid days, replacing items I thought might be the problem, only to find out they weren't. Luckily electronic components are pretty cheap.
Anyways, I realized I wasn't getting anywhere and started back at the beginning and took some basic voltage measurements. There were a couple voltages that never made any sense to me, right from the start, but I didn't really "think" about it until I decided to start from scratch again.
There were voltages (albiet only 0.5v) on two pins which should not have anything on them because they were only spare pins, and not connected to anything. Also, there were two other pins that had a higher voltage (by 0.5 to 1v) than what the schematic showed was possible.

So either I discovered how to create energy (unlikely :biggrin.:); or the board itself had a short internally (also unlikely) or it was shorting on the surface. I knew for a fact there were no wires or solder causing a short, so the only other thing on the board itself was the residue of the flux I was using. So I scrubbed it with some alcohol and let it dry overnight. Powered it up this morning and voila! No more problem.
The "smoke" that I thought had come from a fried component was only the flux burning off, as there was one hole that was getting real hot (before I cleaned the board).

Still have a couple components to put back in and give the board another good scrubbing (as there is still a trace voltage on one pin that should be zero), but it looks as if I can now move forward.

The real idiot thing I did was; I have both an electronics flux and a plumbing flux in my tool chest. I didn't pay attention to what I grabbed and was using the plumbing flux. I'm still surprised it caused the board to short out though, as it is lead free and typically (I thought) it was only leaded flux that would cause shorts. :bonk:

22classic
03-30-2017, 09:29 PM
Great progress!

What is your goal for when it might be ready for the water?

Best regards,
Matt P.

HallJ
03-31-2017, 08:51 AM
You're learning! Nothing wrong with that.

Jeff

yeller
03-31-2017, 12:48 PM
Great progress!

What is your goal for when it might be ready for the water?

Best regards,
Matt P.Later. :nilly:
.
.
.

I don't do well with deadlines. The big unknown is the computer. I have zero tuning experience, and I have no idea how long it's going to take me to get the engine running. There's guys on the megasquirt forum that have struggled for months to get their engine running right; and guys that got it virtually right away. I'm hoping I'll be the latter.

You're learning! Nothing wrong with that.

JeffYes, but when I have to learn something new, it chips away at that part of me that is convinced I know everything. :biggrin.:

yeller
04-27-2017, 01:56 PM
Update: Of course, not as much done as I had hoped, but chipping away.

As far as the ECU goes, it is almost finished. I'm using a GM factory 80 pin connector instead of the Megasquirt DB37's so I soldered 74 wires (2 x 37) onto the MS board. The wires have slip on connectors to go to the back of the 80 pin plug.

85884 85885


Once I was done, I realized it was going to be a pita to remove the board from the case (if I ever had to), because I'd have to remove 74 wires from the 80 connector to do so. So I de-soldered all the wires and utlilized the DB37 connectors on the board so I could easily disconnect the main connector. I'll bolt the DB37's together, so there will be no chance that they will vibrate loose.

85886


I have the wiring harness measured and strapped to the correct length, but still have to install the pins for the main connector. I received my O2 sensors and the controllers and have to wire those in as well. Final wiring step will be to set up a relay and fuse panel.
I found a free electronic schematic program (TinyCad) and used it to draw up a couple diagrams for my panel and sensor connections. I figured the time spent doing the drawings would pay off come connection/setup time.

85887

yeller
04-27-2017, 02:16 PM
I did another test fit of the engine, so I could determine the layout of the wiring harness, PS hoses, fuel lines and plumbing.

85892


As long as I remove the oil pan, my hoist can lift the engine high enough to clear the deck.

85891


I was saving the HE from my 496, to sell with the engine (once I get around to putting it back together), but as I am trying to maximize the free space in the engine bay, I've decided to ditch the HE I was using before and use the 496 one. It is considerably smaller, but it had absolutely no problem keeping the SC'd 496 cool, so I figure it should work with the LS. The 496 HE almost looks like an ps cooler next the one I was using. :biggrin.:
I'll mount it down low, to keep the hoses out of the way, as much as possible.

85889 85890


I've also removed the bulkhead/firewall, as I need to replace it due to the subwoofer holes I had cut into it. Well it's out, I'll be able to re-route a few wires and one of the PS hoses that I want to relocate. I've also removed all the "chrome" plating. There are a bunch of screw holes I need to fill and a bit of grinding to do, so I'll have to repaint most of the bay.

85888

yeller
04-27-2017, 02:25 PM
FINALLY......Marine Power is sending me a replacement set of manifolds. I am crossing my fingers they have been correctly machined.
They're still waiting on a new batch of castings to machine, but they said they have a set from an engine order that was cancelled, that they can send to me. They said they were machined before they changed their setup, so they should be good.

The only downside.....which (time wise) is an upside, is they are powder coated black. (I had ordered a raw set). I was going to polish my exhaust, for that added bling factor, but in the end, I'll probably be better off just installing a ready-made set, instead of spending an extra week trying to polish a rough casting.

The should be here next week.

chip w
04-27-2017, 04:23 PM
It looks like you're making really good progress Glenn. Will you be putting the firewall/bulkhead back in?

Carl C
04-27-2017, 04:28 PM
I did another test fit of the engine, so I could determine the layout of the wiring harness, PS hoses, fuel lines and plumbing.

85892


Where's the engine? Oh wait, I see it now. Thought that was the trim pump at first ...

Carl C
04-27-2017, 04:38 PM
What a difference. Will that little engine be up to the task?

gcarter
04-27-2017, 05:03 PM
Probably a good choice on the heat exchanger change, Glen.
Mine went in so neatly, but it's has so much extra capacity that
it never gets over 160*-170* unless I run really hard for an
extended time. I think the capacity is about 700 HP. It'd probably
be great for a blower motor.

22classic
04-28-2017, 01:31 AM
Looking great! Keep it up!

but I must admit......I get nervous with all those wires and connections!!! I went old school with a 1 wire ignition :worthy:. I envy your ability and patience with working with all the electronics and tuning!


keep keep up the good work!

yeller
04-28-2017, 02:36 PM
It looks like you're making really good progress Glenn. Will you be putting the firewall/bulkhead back in?
Yes. A new firewall will go back in. I had cut 10" holes in it for some subwoofers, but I plan to relocate those, so need to replace the wall.


Where's the engine? Oh wait, I see it now. Thought that was the trim pump at first ...

What a difference. Will that little engine be up to the task?
Lol. Nice shot. :biggrin.: It may be small, but it will be mighty!! (I hope)
The LS is 200 lbs lighter. The change in exhaust, HE and smaller S/C add up to at least another 50. That's a significant amount of weight off the back end.


Probably a good choice on the heat exchanger change, Glen.
Mine went in so neatly, but it's has so much extra capacity that
it never gets over 160*-170* unless I run really hard for an
extended time. I think the capacity is about 700 HP. It'd probably
be great for a blower motor.
I agree George. Also, being all aluminum, the engine will dissipate heat a lot faster and won't require as much cooling as an iron block



Looking great! Keep it up!
but I must admit......I get nervous with all those wires and connections!!! I went old school with a 1 wire ignition :worthy:. I envy your ability and patience with working with all the electronics and tuning!
keep keep up the good work!Thanks. I get nervous too! I probably rewired that 80 pin connector 4 or 5 times. Every time I checked the pinout, I always seemed to find another wire I set in the wrong spot. I'm nervous every time I power it up, thinking I may have done something wrong. :biggrin.:

Carl C
04-28-2017, 07:19 PM
"Lol. Nice shot. :biggrin.: It may be small, but it will be mighty!! (I hope)
The LS is 200 lbs lighter. The change in exhaust, HE and smaller S/C add up to at least another 50. That's a significant amount of weight off the back end."

I'm just messing with ya. Lots of us are watching this project. Less weight is always better.

yeller
05-04-2017, 11:08 AM
No worries Carl. I know you're just kidding.

I feel the loss of 250lbs, should help to mitigate some of the loss of BB torque.




They finally arrived. Almost 7 months after the original order, I have a usable set of exhaust manifolds.

yeller
05-04-2017, 11:20 AM
I've been working on the relocations of the fuel pump, sea strainer and H/E, trying to free up valuable "working" space.
The fuel pump was just a minor relocate, from the top of the "shelf" to the side of the stringer.
The sea strainer was on top of the shelf, on the starboard side. That was about the only place I could find with the 502. Now that I'm not using the Q&Q, the removal of the Y-pipe opened up some room to drop the strainer down to the side of the stringer. Can't fit it on the starboard side because of the starter, but there is room on the port side. It doesn't really change my plumbing too much. Using the 496HO H/E and mounting it down low will significantly change the plumbing.....for the better. I'm going to mount it down low in the bilge, just in front of the crank pump. Because of the "stiffeners" that were installed for the factory repair, I have something to bolt it to. I could put it low on the firewall/bulkhead, but that will result in hoses taking up that beautiful open space in front of the engine.
I'll post some pics later.

gcarter
05-04-2017, 03:27 PM
They finally arrived. Almost 7 months after the original order, I have a usable set of exhaust manifolds.

Those look good!
I bet you could smooth them up a bit and a coat of high end acrylic/polyurethane paint would make them look like a mirror!
I waited a year for a replacement speedometer! Apparently the MFGR got into a disagreement w/the silk screener, and nothing
happened for months and months.

txtaz
05-04-2017, 05:32 PM
Outstanding work Glen.

Looking good.

wetcoast
05-05-2017, 12:20 AM
This is a very cool project Glenn and I wish I stumbled upon it sooner! I'm an LS junkie myself. I cammed, pullied and tuned my '09 LSA powered CTS-V. I would love to LS swap a boat and I'm interested to see how that boat comes out of the hole with a drastically different torque curve.

Why aren't you using a stock ECU?

wetcoast
05-05-2017, 12:24 AM
Looked into this as that is what most LS guys are using; even those with boosted applications. From what I could find out there isn't a company that will unlock the ecu for life. They sell you "credits" to flash the ecu. Once the credits are used up, you have to buy more.
The stock ecu is the cheaper way to go if you only need to flash the ecu a few times, but I expect to have to flash it a whole bunch of times and the stock setup would end up being exorbitantly expensive in the long run.


22Classic: waiting for the your test data. :drive: :)

This is not correct. You buy credits in HPTuners for a single serial number and you can re-flash over and over on the same credits you already used. I used 2 credit for my '09 Caddy and 2 credits for my '15 Sierra and I keep flashing them whenever I need to make changes.

wetcoast
05-05-2017, 12:31 AM
I still need to purchase a couple O2 sensors and controllers, as well as set of injectors. I keep checking the LS and Corvette forums hoping to snag a deal on the injectors. I'm leaving those to the very end in case a deal pops up. I'm pretty sure I'll be ordering the O2 sensors and controllers early next week. As it sits right now, the O2 controllers will be the raw board and components, so I can integrate them into the same ECU enclosure.

The final big item is still the exhaust manifolds. Five months later and I still haven't been able to get a replacement set. At this point, I 75% believe Marine Power will come through. They still always answer my emails, but they say they don't have any themselves, because their casting company is back-ordered. The latest is Marine Power will be taking a deliver at the end of this month or early next month; then they have to machine them. I've been told they have a bunch of motors sitting to go out that need the manifolds, so if what they are saying is true; I'm hopeful they'll save a set for me. In my opinion, (and of course I'm biased) I should be their number one priority. They didn't even know they had an issue until I brought it to their attention. If I hadn't said anything, they would have sent out a bunch of bad manifolds to other motor companies (like Michigan Marine), as well as delivered their own motors...all with bad manifolds. That could have ended up being a nightmare for them. I've been extremely patient, but I admit, it's running pretty thin. I'll be contacting them again at the end of the month and we'll see what they say.

I have a set of LSA injectors (64 lbs I think) laying around because I went up to ID850's. The only thing is the spray pattern is a bit different for boost and the wing cast into the LSA heads. Let me know if you're interested in using them, I'm sure we can work something out. I also have a stock and ported LSA blower and one of them is a spare but I can't decide which right now because I haven't purchased the 102mm throttle body I need for the ported blower yet.

wetcoast
05-05-2017, 12:40 AM
Hi Glenn,
I didn't read back all the way but I was wondering if you saw these and if you planning on running closed loop?

http://www.marineindustrieswest.com/ProductDetails.cfm?group_id=10&catid=75&productid=4647&CFID=1264692&CFTOKEN=f0092a-01dd1b2e-ee97-45f3-acb6-5b623571f931

txtaz
05-05-2017, 10:13 AM
This is not correct. You buy credits in HPTuners for a single serial number and you can re-flash over and over on the same credits you already used. I used 2 credit for my '09 Caddy and 2 credits for my '15 Sierra and I keep flashing them whenever I need to make changes.

I use ScanTool for my American cars. I can flash them as many times as I want. I think the package I have is good for 3 cars but of coarse you can always buy more. :)

Has anyone used the Mercruiser tools such as Rinda for the ECU?

Taz

yeller
05-05-2017, 12:48 PM
Those look good!
I bet you could smooth them up a bit and a coat of high end acrylic/polyurethane paint would make them look like a mirror!
George, I convinced myself not to polish my manifold and keep the black in order to reduce my launch schedule. Don't encourage me to do more work. :biggrin.:


This is not correct. You buy credits in HPTuners for a single serial number and you can re-flash over and over on the same credits you already used. I used 2 credit for my '09 Caddy and 2 credits for my '15 Sierra and I keep flashing them whenever I need to make changes.I was unaware of that. I misread their website then. In any case, even though I looked into it, I never really planned to use the stock ECU. I was always leaning 90% towards aftermarket.


I have a set of LSA injectors (64 lbs I think) laying around because I went up to ID850's.
I am interested if they have the USCAR connector. What fuel pressure are they rated 64lbs and are they a true 64lb injector or a redrilled/reworked lower injector? I'm not really concerned about the spray pattern as I don't believe it makes too much of a difference, as the injectors can't keep up to the firing of the cylinders anyway. Probably makes a difference in the LT1/4 that are direct injected and run close to 3000lb fuel pressure.


Hi Glenn,
I didn't read back all the way but I was wondering if you saw these and if you planning on running closed loop?
http://www.marineindustrieswest.com/ProductDetails.cfm?group_id=10&catid=75&productid=4647&CFID=1264692&CFTOKEN=f0092a-01dd1b2e-ee97-45f3-acb6-5b623571f931Never saw those, but they wouldn't work for my application because I am adapting my 496HO risers to the MP exhaust manifolds, so I have to go from a rectangular manifold collector to a circular riser. I have 1" aluminum plate that I fabbing to fit. I was going to install the O2 sensors in the plate, but have since decided to weld the bung in the end of the riser......although this may change

yeller
05-05-2017, 01:00 PM
Wetcoast, PM'd you my number.

yeller
05-05-2017, 01:02 PM
Taz, I've never used the Rhinda, but I also never saw anything negative about it during my searches.
Used ones come up for sale occasionally on OSO, but tend to go fast.

txtaz
05-05-2017, 02:08 PM
Taz, I've never used the Rhinda, but I also never saw anything negative about it during my searches.
Used ones come up for sale occasionally on OSO, but tend to go fast.

Thanks Glen. I like that it is a handheld and would be easier to use while running. No need to take a laptop.

Taz

gcarter
05-05-2017, 02:53 PM
Glen, I didn't mean polish the manifolds, but, knock down the high spots, prime and paint.

wetcoast
05-05-2017, 03:10 PM
Never saw those, but they wouldn't work for my application because I am adapting my 496HO risers to the MP exhaust manifolds, so I have to go from a rectangular manifold collector to a circular riser. I have 1" aluminum plate that I fabbing to fit. I was going to install the O2 sensors in the plate, but have since decided to weld the bung in the end of the riser......although this may change

Be careful about this because heated O2's are very very sensitive to moisture. I've heard of a few other trying to mount them and have them burn out immediately. Further away form the water injection point the best.

yeller
05-05-2017, 06:01 PM
Glen, I didn't mean polish the manifolds, but, knock down the high spots, prime and paint.I do know that is what you meant.......but it's still extra work. :) I'm ok with the powder coating for now. Need to get this thing running. I can always go back to that later.


Be careful about this because heated O2's are very very sensitive to moisture. I've heard of a few other trying to mount them and have them burn out immediately. Further away form the water injection point the best.Yes. Well aware of that. I have a plan...:propeller:

yeller
05-08-2017, 01:18 PM
Somewhere George had mentioned how Aluminum and Brass aren't good together.
Here's a pic to support that.

Both these items were brand new and there is only 3hrs (absolute MAX) on the parts. All my other aluminum only or brass only parts still look new.
The corrosion wouldn't be much if these parts were years old, but it is surprising that this much corrosion could show up in less than 3hrs. It is very clearly starting to corrode on the threads and the inside of the brass nipple. (The tan colored stuff at the base of the aluminum threads is just excess pipe paste).

yeller
05-08-2017, 01:35 PM
Just an added note to the ECU talk. I had wanted to use the MSPro (megasquirt) because it's assembled and I feel it's a comparable unit to Holley, AEM, etc, but a more economical price. I didn't go that route, because it doesn't have any more analog inputs than the MS3, so (for me) it didn't warrant the extra cost. It actually has less A/I, because the MS3 has a couple "unadvertised" inputs that can be created.
Figures, that now they have come out with the MSPro EVO. $50 more than the Pro and 4 extra inputs. That would have given me the 2 extra inputs that I had to "create" with the MS3, plus 2 more, which would be perfect for my 2 EGT's.

Every single ECU that I looked at, from every manufacturer was a compromise on what I wanted (unless I wanted to spend $2500 +). The MS3 had the least amount of compromise, and as a bonus, it was the cheapest.

I would have snapped up the EVO if this had come out a couple months ago. Damn! :frown:

yeller
05-28-2017, 02:33 AM
Not too much to report on over the last few weeks. A bunch of small things that eat a lot a time and make you feel like you aren't getting anywhere.
Struggling to find something to post. Below is about all I have.

I'm moving my sea strainer from the starboard to port side, so I had to flip the transom water inlet fitting 180 degrees. It didn't land in the correct position, so I made this little adapter, to clock it a few extra degrees.

85982


Spent quite a bit of time making the wiring harness. Didn't want to use the corrugated plastic sheathing that I used before. I wanted something that looked a bit more professional, so I used different sizes of expandable woven and fabric split sheathing. I'm happy with how it turned out. I still have to add the 80 pin ECU connector. That'll be a several hour job for later.

85981


I've been dreading making the adaptors to fit my risers to the exhaust manifolds. A ton of grinding involved. Have one 80% done. Several hours, but wasn't as bad as I anticipated. Need to smooth it out some with a flapper wheel and finish the outside edges.

85984 85983


Going out of town for a week, so won't be getting any work done. I'm hoping to have all the work done and engine in by the end of June. The BIG question mark, is how long is it going to take to get it running properly with the Megasquirt. Have my fingers crossed that it'll go relatively smoothly. Going to be a big learning curve for sure, though.

22classic
05-31-2017, 05:44 PM
Hey Yeller!

Clear out your inbox!

yeller
06-01-2017, 03:22 PM
Hey Yeller!

Clear out your inbox!Done. Don't know what happened. The site reloaded a bunch of PM's that were deleted long ago.

yeller
06-05-2017, 04:34 PM
Put the motor back in for another test fit.

Turns out my water inlet adapter plate pushes the fitting forward enough to hit the bellhousing. It will still fit, but I had to make a new fitting that clocks it a bit further. That and I wasted a $25 rad hose, because now it has been cut too short. It's all the $20 to $50 items that you don't pay attention to that really push up the cost once they are all added up.

Not pretty, but it's not seen, so it is what it is
86006


The relocated sea strainer barely clears the block. I was off on my measurements, but luckily, not by too much.
86005


My big worry right now is the exhaust riser clearance. As it sits, I'll have to notch the underside of the engine hatch slightly for clearance. I originally planned on using 1" plate for my riser adapters, but the metal shop had a piece of 1.25" already cut, so I used that instead. Sure wish I had that extra 1/4" now. :boggled: I'm not sure how close I am with my engine alignment, so I'm hoping that I need to lower it during alignment. If it needs to go up, I may have to ditch the risers and order the correct ones.
86004

Now that I've been able to have a better look at how everything fits, it's clear that the exhaust isn't going to line up with the transom holes. The holes should be higher; much like a Blackhawk boat. I really don't want to redo the transom.....again :bonk: ...so I'll be doing that as a last resort only. I'm going to try a flexible exhaust hose first. If that doesn't work, then I hope to weld up some 4" exhaust tubing to fit.

gcarter
06-05-2017, 08:32 PM
Hi Glen!
Where does that water inlet adapter go?

joseph m. hahnl
06-05-2017, 09:38 PM
Put the motor back in for another test fit.

Turns out my water inlet adapter plate pushes the fitting forward enough to hit the bellhousing. It will still fit, but I had to make a new fitting that clocks it a bit further. That and I wasted a $25 rad hose, because now it has been cut too short. It's all the $20 to $50 items that you don't pay attention to that really push up the cost once they are all added up.

Not pretty, but it's not seen, so it is what it is
86006


The relocated sea strainer barely clears the block. I was off on my measurements, but luckily, not by too much.
86005


My big worry right now is the exhaust riser clearance. As it sits, I'll have to notch the underside of the engine hatch slightly for clearance. I originally planned on using 1" plate for my riser adapters, but the metal shop had a piece of 1.25" already cut, so I used that instead. Sure wish I had that extra 1/4" now. :boggled: I'm not sure how close I am with my engine alignment, so I'm hoping that I need to lower it during alignment. If it needs to go up, I may have to ditch the risers and order the correct ones.
86004

Now that I've been able to have a better look at how everything fits, it's clear that the exhaust isn't going to line up with the transom holes. The holes should be higher; much like a Blackhawk boat. I really don't want to redo the transom.....again :bonk: ...so I'll be doing that as a last resort only. I'm going to try a flexible exhaust hose first. If that doesn't work, then I hope to weld up some 4" exhaust tubing to fit.
You could fly cut the adapter plate . It only needs to be as thick as the diameter of the bolt your using for a tapped hole and counter sink for a flat head screws to mount the adaptor to the manifold. I'm assuming you have though holes to the manifold and tapped holes for the risers. You could get away with 1/2 in plate and still have full thread.

yeller
06-06-2017, 01:05 PM
Hi Glen!
Where does that water inlet adapter go?

George it's for the water inlet at the transom. The part in the red circle. Despite how the pic shows it, it mounted near horizontal (to the starboard). I need it pointing to the port.
86007



You could fly cut the adapter plate . It only needs to be as thick as the diameter of the bolt your using for a tapped hole and counter sink for a flat head screws to mount the adaptor to the manifold. I'm assuming you have though holes to the manifold and tapped holes for the risers. You could get away with 1/2 in plate and still have full thread.It's not just for bolting the two together. I could tap the manifold to accept the riser directly if that was my only concern. There were two reasons I wanted a thicker plate. The first was that I wanted to mount an O2 sensor in the adapter. I've since changed my mind on that.......but have since started to change my mind back on that. :boggled:. The second is because the manifold collector is rectangular and the riser is circular. The difference is fairly significant. By using a thicker plate, I can reduce the "abruptness" of the transition.

86008 86009

yeller
06-06-2017, 01:09 PM
http://gmpowertrain.com/2013_pdf/M_Vert_Gen5_6.2%28L86%29_020315.pdf

Why doesn't Merc use these?
Pat, you're not alone in thinking that. I completely agree. So does this guy:
http://www.powerboatnation.com/why-dont-boats-get-the-ls-engines-that-supercars-do/

chip w
06-06-2017, 02:14 PM
Pat, you're not alone in thinking that. I completely agree. So does this guy:
http://www.powerboatnation.com/why-dont-boats-get-the-ls-engines-that-supercars-do/

I'm sure that I'm not the first to come across this. When I first say it several months ago I thought that it'd be great to put in my 18 but I really didn't want to drop that kind of money on repowering an 18. Glen, it might have been an option for you. I'm not sure what kind of challenges there may have been to fit it in with the Blackhawk, etc. but I'd love to see someone do this swap.

http://gmpowertrain.com/2013_pdf/FHR_REV_6.2LSA_Marine_010713.pdf

gcarter
06-06-2017, 04:29 PM
Glen, another solution would be to block off that transom port (Merc offers the parts for about $25 US),
and add a Stainlesss Marine through transom pickup and hose it to where you want it.
You can find the pickpus on eBay somewhat frequently.
Another benifit is lower raw water cooling system pressure.

yeller
06-07-2017, 10:49 AM
I'm sure that I'm not the first to come across this. When I first say it several months ago I thought that it'd be great to put in my 18 but I really didn't want to drop that kind of money on repowering an 18. Glen, it might have been an option for you. I'm not sure what kind of challenges there may have been to fit it in with the Blackhawk, etc. but I'd love to see someone do this swap.

http://gmpowertrain.com/2013_pdf/FHR_REV_6.2LSA_Marine_010713.pdf
This is the motor to use. :yes:
http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines/lt4-wet-sump

Considering GM wants $26k for an LS9, this is a steal for $16k. More hp/tq and 10k less. About $1500 more than the LSA, but a worth it imo. I've seen them for sale for around $13k


Glen, another solution would be to block off that transom port (Merc offers the parts for about $25 US),
and add a Stainlesss Marine through transom pickup and hose it to where you want it.
You can find the pickpus on eBay somewhat frequently.
Another benifit is lower raw water cooling system pressure.
C'mon George. You have to know me well enough by now to know I wouldn't buy a plate......I'd make one. :biggrin.:

I have often thought about that, but I'd add a pick up for the motor and utilize the drive pick up for the S/C's intercooler.

yeller
07-30-2017, 01:07 PM
Been a while since I've updated this. Haven't done too much as I've been busy with other life duties.

Daughter just got married! Congrats to me! :biggrin.: It was an Indian wedding (as in from India, not Native) and those weddings last over a week, with multiple events/ceremonies prior to the actual wedding day. A lot of pre-planning and out of town visitors to take care of.
I've also (finally) started to build our house. I'm acting as the general contractor, so it's been 12hr days 6 days week for the last little while.

I don't see being able to get the boat done this summer. As Chachi said earlier, I have too many balloons in the air. My wife is NOT! happy about that. I can't even mention the word "boat" around her, without getting a lecture on selling it and getting one that "runs". :boggled:

Nonetheless, I chip away at it when I can. I had to make a new set of motor mount adapter plates. Farpoint was kind enough to get an alignment tool for me to use and with the mount adjustments bottomed out, I feel the motor still needs to go down a smidge more. Tool slides in near perfect and would be ok as is, but I'd prefer "perfect". The new plates will allow another 1/2" of adjustment.
Also, completely ripped apart my "completed" engine harness to reroute the wiring. I didn't like how close I had it running to the alternator, (which can be a major source of EMI), so I had to reroute several sensors and while I was at it, I decided to reroute the coil wires also. Unfortunately, this puts more wires across the top of the motor, which I was trying to avoid, but I'd rather have a clean signal to the ECU than a clean looking motor.
Still haven't fully finished the ECU and wiring. Need to add some wires for the 02 sensors and a couple toggle switches, then solder all the pins for the main connector, and assemble it in the case.
At least I've finished up the fuel system and have the cooling system 100% figured out. Only need to add a pressurized reservoir and pick up a couple of hoses to finish it off.

There's not a ton left to do. Still need to do the following:
Finish the exhaust riser adaptor plates (1 day)
Finalize the throttle linkage. (1 days)
Enlarge oil pan (1 day)
Build intercooler mounts and plumb S/C (1 day)
Possibly need to build exhaust riser to muffler offsets (1 day)
Build new "firewall" (1 day)
Plumb P/S pump and misc. items (2 days)
Complete the ECU, as mentioned above. (2 days)
......then learn to tune (?? days, weeks?, months?, ??)

The fact that I don't get complete days to work on it anymore does make a 1 day event take several, and there is still additional days required to "beautify" the motor, but I'm going to delay the aesthetic side of things until it's up and running.