PDA

View Full Version : Classic 22 with Arneson



22classic
09-21-2016, 12:49 PM
Hello,
Has anyone performed the Arneson swap on a Classic 22? If so what was the experience? What did you do about bow lift etc? How was the rough water handling?

Thanks for any and all input!

Best,
Matt

gcarter
09-21-2016, 03:04 PM
I won'r elaborate, but it's generally not the best or easiest solution to your performance wants and desires,
besides the cost.
Generally the bow won't lift and the boats will inevitably run flat.
There's been a couple of exceptions.....one was an 18 and not a 22, the other is a 20' Minx, which has a porpoising problem.

Inferno
09-21-2016, 05:20 PM
When I was setting up my 22 I was going to use an Arneson ,as I raced with Howard and was racing when he developed his first one . However everyone said the SCX would be a better fit and would give me more lift .

Ed Donnelly
09-21-2016, 08:51 PM
When I was setting up my 22 I was going to use an Arneson ,as I raced with Howard and was racing when he developed his first one . However everyone said the SCX would be a better fit and would give me more lift .

How did that work out for you? ...Ed

BUIZILLA
09-21-2016, 09:59 PM
didn't Ken have an Arneson?

CHACHI
09-22-2016, 07:52 AM
Buiz, you mean Kenny Lessard? He had one installed, but if my memory serves me, he could never get it to perform properly. He ended up selling the boat.

Ken

smokediver
09-22-2016, 10:25 AM
CDMA , Chris Allard was working on one a while back . Not sure of the outcome .

gcarter
09-22-2016, 10:52 AM
CDMA , Chris Allard was working on one a while back . Not sure of the outcome .

I'm pretty sure it was never finished.

mattyboy
09-22-2016, 11:11 AM
to paraphrase Ken

I took a 60 mph and made it a 45 mph boat


I would think a BH hull over a reg 22 hull might respond better with the built in rocker but I bet you would nee Arny rocker plates as well

olredalert
09-22-2016, 11:51 AM
I won'r elaborate, but it's generally not the best or easiest solution to your performance wants and desires,
besides the cost.
Generally the bow won't lift and the boats will inevitably run flat.
There's been a couple of exceptions.....one was an 18 and not a 22, the other is a 20' Minx, which has a porpoising problem.

----George,,,I believe Jeff has conquered the problem with the Minx!.......Bill S

smidgen too
09-23-2016, 10:30 AM
Hope Jeff will chim in but since he added Arneson rocker tabs to his Minx & using a 4 blade Rolla 23 pith prop it's working much better. The pic here does not have the rocker tabs on the Minx yet.

mattyboy
09-23-2016, 10:45 AM
Hope Jeff will chim in but since he added Arneson rocker tabs to his Minx & using a 4 blade Rolla 23 pith prop it's working much better. The pic here does not have the rocker tabs on the Minx yet.


nice pic :yes: mighty mouse was entirely different after the arny rocker plates too. I guess the marine engineers on the board can discuss the difference the short strakes of the minx and the longer strakes of the 22 and how they will react to the arny surface drive

The minx is just a 4 foot longer 16 ski sporter hull the minx has no built in intentional hook does it? from the pic I would say no looking a Jeff's boot stripe it almost looks like there is rocker in the hull

HallJ
09-23-2016, 11:49 AM
Kenny couldn't get the bow lift but I had the opposite problem. Out of anything I tried, the 17.75x23 4 blade Rolla helped the most. The added length of the rocker plates cured the porpoise. I do not run them in rocker mode. Just a tick down. 280 K planes would have probably done the job as well. I have just acquired my own Rolla. Next year I will see how fast it will go. I like the setup and it really shines in rough water. I also have bow tank which helps quite a bit.
The porpoise was so strong, 210 pounds of sand bags in the front wouldn't stop it. It blows my mind.
All is well now. I moved the fuel tank back 19". I should have just left it.
I will attempt to measure the long CG again. Nothing like a good project!

Also, running these boats in flat water is absolutely boring.

Jeff

Donzi Z22
09-30-2016, 09:15 AM
Whats the difference in a Black Hawk drive and a Areson drive. I found a Black Hawk and folks say they will swap ends...Will the rocker plates help. Maybe strakes on the bottom of the rocker plates that go into the water 4" to 6"...Not trying to high jack, just trying to learn.

Lenny
10-01-2016, 10:41 PM
Whats the difference in a Black Hawk drive and a Areson drive. I found a Black Hawk and folks say they will swap ends...Will the rocker plates help. Maybe strakes on the bottom of the rocker plates that go into the water 4" to 6"...Not trying to high jack, just trying to learn.

Blackhawk is a surface drive but counterrotating twin propellors. Arneson is a surface drive but a single prop. Blackhawks do not normally swap ends , they swap which surface of the boat is out of the water :)

Strakes provide a 10x or similar downforce on the water ( psi ) as the water that originally rose up to hit them. Think hanging onto a fire hose. That force lifts the hull.

You DO NOT want to lift the transom so I'd put that idea to bed.

:)

mattyboy
10-02-2016, 09:44 AM
rocker plates are not tabs they bend to add hook to pull the nose down if needed or rocker to let the nose rise all while adding to the running surface of the boat don't think the added strakes would like to be bent

a simple way to look at rocker plates is think of a sheet of alum locked in a vise with 12 inches sticking out of the vise pushing up on the end would be rocker pushing down would be hook

here are rocker plates and an arneson

gcarter
10-02-2016, 10:11 AM
Although Jeff didn't mention it, I believe he extended the inner strakes.
I don't know where he ended them, but, as you can see in the picture, Minx
inner strakes are really short. A 22's inner strakes end 24" from the transom.
A 22 is a lot heavier than a Minx or an 18. I'm not convinced it would be
easy to make a 22 perform w/an Arneson.

Lenny
10-02-2016, 11:12 AM
George, I bet a Blackhawk hull could be convinced to like the addition of an Arneson with a bit of magic... Bow lift issue would disappear most probably.

If we use your money $$$$$...

:)

Greg Guimond
10-02-2016, 12:30 PM
Sounds to me like it is an exceptional way to spend gads of money and get a very minor return.

Buy Patrick's 22 Classic with a 502/Bravo for $25k and be done with it. He even has some new verified speeds posted with that excellent Rev4 prop. 70mph any day of the year. :yes:

gcarter
10-02-2016, 01:51 PM
George, I bet a Blackhawk hull could be convinced to like the addition of an Arneson with a bit of magic... Bow lift issue would disappear most probably.

If we use your money $$$$$...

:)

:):):)
Yes, good idea!


Not!

Donzi Z22
10-02-2016, 04:32 PM
Blackhawk is a surface drive but counterrotating twin propellors. Arneson is a surface drive but a single prop. Blackhawks do not normally swap ends , they swap which surface of the boat is out of the water :)

Strakes provide a 10x or similar downforce on the water ( psi ) as the water that originally rose up to hit them. Think hanging onto a fire hose. That force lifts the hull.

You DO NOT want to lift the transom so I'd put that idea to bed.

:)

Just trying to figure why people do not want the Blackhawk's. I hear the 3rd porpoise is a problem.Trying to figure what might keep the boat stable at speed.Is there anyone I can speak with about the Blackhawks Donzi's ?

Ghost
10-02-2016, 05:22 PM
Just trying to figure why people do not want the Blackhawk's. I hear the 3rd porpoise is a problem.Trying to figure what might keep the boat stable at speed.Is there anyone I can speak with about the Blackhawks Donzi's ?

Important to distinguish between a couple things. A factory Blackhawk boat had a Blackhawk drive AND a different, Blackhawk hull. The drive has its challenges with finding parts and such, but can be a really good thing. The Blackhawk hull is a rockered 22C. The bottom is curved, like the rockers on a rocking chair. It lifts the nose but causes the 3rd porpoise danger.

A BH drive on a BH hull is a handful, but if one is sensible and builds a lot of seat time, can be learned. We've had some great BH drivers.

You can put a BH drive on a regular 22C hull and get great results. I would do this in a heartbeat if I was comfy I could get parts to keep it running.

Never heard of anyone being happy with a standard drive on a BH hull, and it'd be very hard to sell.

gcarter
10-02-2016, 06:00 PM
Since folks are getting such good results w/a standard hull, a shorty, and lots of power,
I wonder why some are looking for supposed "shortcuts"?

Why not put your money into something that works?

Donzi Z22
10-02-2016, 09:03 PM
Since folks are getting such good results w/a standard hull, a shorty, and lots of power,
I wonder why some are looking for supposed "shortcuts"?

Why not put your money into something that works?

The more I research, this sounds like the best way to go. The Blackhawk being a handful and parts being scarce. This is a great group and a lot of knowledge here !

Pat McPherson
10-03-2016, 12:30 PM
Sounds to me like it is an exceptional way to spend gads of money and get a very minor return.

Buy Patrick's 22 Classic with a 502/Bravo for $25k and be done with it. He even has some new verified speeds posted with that excellent Rev4 prop. 70mph any day of the year. :yes:

The Fall price on my boat is a firm 22K. Actually had a couple of local guys inquiring recently. If she's still mine, I'm planning to add a steering upgrade this off season...

HallJ
10-04-2016, 08:14 PM
rocker plates are not tabs they bend to add hook to pull the nose down if needed or rocker to let the nose rise all while adding to the running surface of the boat don't think the added strakes would like to be bent

a simple way to look at rocker plates is think of a sheet of alum locked in a vise with 12 inches sticking out of the vise pushing up on the end would be rocker pushing down would be hook

here are rocker plates and an arneson

Get bent!!!! Check it out......

https://youtube.com/watch?v=eibj5PS4wJ8

Pismo
10-05-2016, 07:34 PM
great video....

SKnies
10-05-2016, 10:13 PM
...another pretty cool video showing what a surface drive looks like in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of1RY4M8VqM

mattyboy
10-06-2016, 08:15 AM
Get bent!!!! Check it out......

https://youtube.com/watch?v=eibj5PS4wJ8

they are cool Geoo's did have the end cap like yours

chip w
10-06-2016, 09:29 AM
...another pretty cool video showing what a surface drive looks like in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of1RY4M8VqM

I love it! That was a great way to start my morning!!!

gcarter
10-06-2016, 11:30 AM
It hasn't been mentioned in this thread, but a in previous thread, I mentioned Arnesons seem to work
much better in stepped hulls that run flat anyway.
That seems to be the controlling factor w/o a bunch of trick stuff.

22classic
10-27-2016, 11:29 AM
I have been working with Rick at Arneson and he says that they have been used on classic 22's successfully. After he explained the engineering it makes sense to me that the system should work appropriately, have more speed, more reliability, less maintenance, and throw a big rooster tail!

So, I picked up an arneson conversion kit! Here we go!

I'll post photos and video as I progress. :popcorn:

best,
Matt P.

Carl C
10-27-2016, 01:23 PM
Sweet! :)

yeller
10-27-2016, 07:01 PM
Nice! Make sure you post pics of the project and keep us updated. I'm very interested in the results. :yes:

thriller
10-28-2016, 02:17 AM
me too

CHACHI
10-28-2016, 08:00 AM
Between this project and Woobs's restoration, and Yeller's new motor, it is going to be a great winter.

Ken

chip w
10-28-2016, 09:28 AM
I have a friend that just bought a 22 for a project. He's signed up for the site and is awaiting approval and then he will post their project. They have had the boat for about two weeks and they already have it stripped down and the cap off the hull. They're moving very quickly. I've seen the pictures so far but I'll let him post them and what they are doing. This is the same guy that rebuilt my transom a while back. He does great work.

gcarter
10-28-2016, 10:46 AM
I wish you well Matt.
It's not easy to make a hull handle differently
than what it was designed for.

tmdog
10-28-2016, 12:41 PM
http://www.arneson-industries.com/page.php?type=products&id=bravoConversion

Have no idea of conversion cost, I think pricey. Kit looks awesome and appears to somewhat like an average install.

Good luck with the install, 22 and keep us up to date.

bertsboat
10-28-2016, 02:33 PM
T

here was a full kit, down to the power steering pump, not that long ago. I think he wanted 8K. It was a steal. If I find it I will post it.

http://www.arneson-industries.com/page.php?type=products&id=bravoConversion

Have no idea of conversion cost, I think pricey. Kit looks awesome and appears to somewhat like an average install.

Good luck with the install, 22 and keep us up to date.

22classic
10-28-2016, 04:01 PM
New the conversion runs $24,500.

That comes with everything, including steering, lines, pumps, etc...

Then you need to buy a prop, but they range all over in price. new used etc..

-Matt

22classic
11-10-2016, 09:28 PM
853608536185362

The first step was to adapt the Damper plate from a 454 to the 460 flywheel. I could have bought the 460 plate, but figured now is the time to make it easy to change plates if I want. There are high performance plates available for the 454 flywheel. So Ill keep my options open....

I made this easy for anyone else with the schematic, maybe someone will search for it in the future.

First step done!

yeller
11-11-2016, 01:06 AM
Alright....the fun begins!
I love it when other people spend money on projects. Makes me feel somewhat normal. :biggrin.:

Definitely going to follow this one.

22classic
11-11-2016, 02:16 AM
Yeller, we are the ones that are normal....(maybe).

In all honesty, I was tired of dealing with drive issues and the wife was not having it.

So we talked about a different boat, maybe something slow with a bathroom..... but SHE was the one that said we both like it, its the best looking boat in the field, we make it to the casino in 30 min, and at least it's different then everyone's ski boat, plus we look good in a boat with such good lines....So just fix the drive issue so we never have to fix it again, it has to be cheaper than buying a different boat or fixing it all the time.

I have to agree with her that if you can fix it once that it is cheaper and better. I do spend a lot of time in rough water with the drive in the air and switching to an xr drive was going to run about 18ish and that doesn't include steering etc, etc... then I have been reading of lots of people still having trouble with xr's and gears breaking or clutch parts going out.

if you think about the traditional outdrive design, the gears and clutches in the drive can only be so big, they must fit in the drive and the lower has to drag through the water. So bigger requires more power and more pressure....

So the arneson it is!

This might not be for everyone, but I think it should be fun and make for a more reliable, safer, faster boat.

HallJ
11-12-2016, 02:19 PM
First order of business is to straighten the bottom of the boat out. Grab a straight edge and tell us what you find.

Jeff

Carl C
11-12-2016, 05:30 PM
I have to agree with her that if you can fix it once that it is cheaper and better. I do spend a lot of time in rough water with the drive in the air and switching to an xr drive was going to run about 18ish and that doesn't include steering etc, etc... then I have been reading of lots of people still having trouble with xr's and gears breaking or clutch parts going out.


XR upper and Imco shorty lower can be obtained for closer to 8 grand but you are right; It takes a little longer but they still break. If this project works out there could be an arny in my future too. I boat on the Great Lakes and also get a lot of air and no one can be perfect on the throttle.

22classic
11-12-2016, 10:37 PM
Hall,
I used a straight edge and it looks pretty darn straight. Maybe out here and there by an 1/8 to 1/16.

i figured I will install everything and if I need to do some bottom work I'll do it then. But I never had a problem of to little bow lift when I had the KC. (King cobra)

How would you modify the bottom if it needs it? What do you use as filler? West system or something like it?

best,
Matt

HallJ
11-13-2016, 09:49 AM
Matt,

What year is your boat?
An 1/8" is too much to leave alone.
I would use 3M marine filler. It is Vinyl Ester and glass spheres. This equates to low moisture absorption potential which is good for the bottom of a boat.

I will dig up some pics of the bottom of my boat. There was a large depression about two feet forward of the transom from the outer strake to the keel. I believe the Stbd side was 1/8" max and the Port side was up to a 1/4".
I had to add glass on that side.

Don't hesitate to ask questions.

Jeff

HallJ
11-13-2016, 10:56 AM
This was the Port side. The Stbd side was worse.

Jeff

22classic
11-13-2016, 03:38 PM
The boat is a 1990.

The engine is is now out, I'll get some pics going soon.

gcarter
11-13-2016, 03:59 PM
What Jeff said is important. My old Minx was 5/16" and 1/4", P&S.
My 22 is/was better as the inner strakes are longer and that seems
to help.
Here's a picture of the 22 w/some of the gel removed. This is typical
bottom damage for performance boats.
The engine mounts are directly above the end of the inner strakes.
There was significant damage there, including delamination.
Before you build a 100 MPH package, make sure the boat won't come
apart.

22classic
11-13-2016, 09:03 PM
Here is the engine in all its mess.

There doesn't appear to be any stress cracking anywhere on the hull. I will measure with the straight edge again as I progress in the project.

My intentions are not to build a 100mph boat but one that is very reliable and that I don't have to keep working on once its all done. (i know I'm going to have to tune it)

I'm new to the computer and forum and I have no idea why it is showing a picture of the dash, sorry about the massive photo....

85371853728537485370

Carl C
11-13-2016, 09:31 PM
Massive photos are good! Sideways ones hurt my neck ;). You gonna have it ready for testing in the spring?

gcarter
11-13-2016, 10:29 PM
While you're looking at the bottom, let me give you something to gauge by.....
There's a hairline crack in this picture, and it's visible. It's at the top of the
vertical side of the strake.
Under the gel, it was delaminated.

yeller
11-14-2016, 09:50 PM
Nice looking drive. That must get you excited to go out to the garage. :biggrin.:

For pictures; google image resizers. Lots of free apps and super easy to use. Besides changing the viewing size, they greatly reduce the file size which makes it much nicer for those wanting to view your pics.

Pat McPherson
11-15-2016, 09:13 AM
This will be an interesting thread to watch! Thanks for sharing...

22classic
12-06-2016, 09:29 PM
progress

After talking with Rick. You place a board off the bottom of the boat. place a 1" spacer between the bottom of the board and the extension box. At this point you measure and make sure that you have 1/2" to 1" of clearance from the water line at speed. If the extension box drags in the water it will force the bow of the boat down.... At this point you mark the height and your center line, then place your template and make sure you are on the center line of the transom. Mark your holes and drill them 90 degrees to the transom. Install the box! 854798548085481

Carl C
12-07-2016, 06:40 AM
Box looks huge on there!

HallJ
12-07-2016, 10:00 AM
I have a 1.5" thick steel bar I use as a drill guide. It has a 17/32 hole in it to guide the drill. I also machined some pieces of threaded rod to a point. I screwed these into the standoff box mounting holes, position the box and gave it a good whack with plastic mallet to give me my drill points.
That's my little Arneson story for the day kids.

Jeff

22classic
12-07-2016, 09:48 PM
Progress

I made an exact template of my standoff box by using painters paper and a pencil. It worked for me to place exactly where the center of the holes should start.

I then machined a tool to assist in drilling the holes square to the transom. It worked out well. First I drilled 1/2" next will be 9/16".

Then I drew out the inner lines of the transom plate and went to town with the sawzall. I will clean it up with a sander and then come back and west system everything in. THen finish with a good white bilge paint.

At least the transom wasn't rotten!

yeller
12-08-2016, 12:12 PM
Good to see progress. Keep the updates coming.

On a side note: you really should download a picture resizer. It'll take a 5meg pic down to 100~200kb. I don't bother looking through all your pics because they take too long to load.

22classic
12-21-2016, 01:24 AM
Progress...

Finally got around to machining the adaptor to mount the water pump to the end of the crank shaft.

The pump was originally in the drive, and there really isn't much available for a 460 water pump so I ordered a generic johnson pump off ebay.

The box is mounted and the transom is cut. There is no going back now!

When I post pictures, why do some of them turn? It appears to be difficult to use....:nilly:

85520855218552285523

gcarter
12-21-2016, 09:57 AM
Is that a pilot for inside of the pump flange?
I'm a big fan of Johnson crank mounted pumps and have used them on several projects.
The last pump, on a BBC, had nothing to pilot to, so I used the three 1/2" diameter
flange holes and made spacers from thick wall stainless tubing. It was a very precision fit.
Essentially, I made three shoulder bolts w/o the expense of having custom bolts made.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=85524&d=1482332249


http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=85525&d=1482332251

22classic
12-21-2016, 12:08 PM
I guess I didn't totally show what I did.

I machined the harmonic balancer flange to have a lip, then the spacer, then used the lip on the pump so everything would align. It should be within a couple thousandths.

The pump is a generic Johnson pump off of eBay. I want to say it was 120 shipped if I remember correctly.

Its made in Korea, but looks to be good quality.

KrausMotorSports
12-24-2016, 04:27 PM
Hope Jeff will chim in but since he added Arneson rocker tabs to his Minx & using a 4 blade Rolla 23 pith prop it's working much better. The pic here does not have the rocker tabs on the Minx yet.


That is such as badass pic! Perfect timing! I hope to have some nice shots next season! Great Thread! :boat:

yeller
12-27-2016, 01:08 PM
I guess I didn't totally show what I did.

I machined the harmonic balancer flange to have a lip, then the spacer, then used the lip on the pump so everything would align. It should be within a couple thousandths.

The pump is a generic Johnson pump off of eBay. I want to say it was 120 shipped if I remember correctly.

Its made in Korea, but looks to be good quality.It seems the crank driven pumps are never a straight bolt on because the bolt holes are much larger than the bolts so they need work to keep them centered. I had to make up a centering disc for my 502

22classic
01-08-2017, 08:38 PM
I finally mounted the drive and the steering is mounted, then I started running the hydraulic cables and mounting the steering helm. I made a press fit ring and mounted the helm in the original housing as you can see in the picture. 8556085561

22classic
01-30-2017, 09:15 PM
Update!

Engine and transmission are mounted, everything was pretty easy, no real problems yet. You do need to make sure that your clearance between teh transmission output and the drive input is correct as it can differ depending on the thickness of the transom. But it loos killer hanging back there!

While I was at it I painted the bilge with bilge coat.

Steering helm and wiring is next.

Should be ready for early spring!

8563785638

22classic
01-31-2017, 12:42 AM
Forgot to mention the engine sits 1" lower and 3/4" forward of its original location.

This will really help with the hatch clearance, it also shouldn't change the center of gravity. Some people were saying that I was going to have to move the engine into the back seat!:bonk:

Carl C
01-31-2017, 07:32 AM
Nice! I'm eagerly following this project.

yeller
01-31-2017, 09:24 PM
What he said! :drool:

22classic
03-08-2017, 09:51 PM
Progress!

I should be ready for the water by this weekend!

I figured out a couple different things along this build.

1. I installed an oil thermostat that will keep the engine oil at 160-180 and speed oil temp warm up.

2. I installed an oil gauge metering the oil temp after the cooler.

3. Installing all new coolers and accessories can be a fun but difficult job.

4. the entire build really wasn't very difficult plumbing safely is probably the most difficult.

5. I'm glad I had a friend on hand to check that turning left was indeed turning left, as I had the lines mixed up! That could have been a good laugh at the dock!

6. I think it would be best to design and build an adjustable fin for the bottom of the skeg....


Video is uploading now....

22classic
03-08-2017, 11:08 PM
Proof!

https://youtu.be/ZNgB2pfZlAg

ill show the inside after I detail the girl....

but this is a great first step!

22classic
03-08-2017, 11:26 PM
https://youtu.be/T0fssv-53Ok

video showing steering and trim...

chip w
03-09-2017, 10:47 AM
Wow, that looks like it came out really well. Can't wait to see some videos of it in the water and running. What a great project. keep us posted on the handling, etc.

gcarter
03-09-2017, 02:08 PM
Steering reversed w/an Arnison could be a bit more than just comedic at the dock!
Nice coolers and good instrumentation are so important.
I've gone back and forth about an oil thermostat a jillion times.
My temp sensor is in the pan and i found it took awhile to warm up all the oil in the pan.
I was really concerned until I shot the oil filter shell w/my IR temp gun and decided all
was good and temps were great. Here in Florida, the water temp is in the high 80's
most of the year and present the boat owner w/ a bit of a dilemma as to necessity.
I did go to the trouble to pick an oil thermostat, decide where to mount it, and how to plumb
it w/the least disruption to existing hoses, etc.
Your drive installation looks spectacular and I hope you have none of the handling issues
so common on stepless deep-V hulls.

yeller
03-11-2017, 07:15 PM
Looking forward to the results. :yes:

22classic
03-26-2017, 02:58 AM
Progress!

She made it to the water!

My first impressions on the water are as follows.

1. It pulls out of the hole much faster, and it is much more stable. When you slam on the power with the original drive it would torque over, and un-torque if you got off the throttle fast. This does not happen with the Arneson, it is dead flat and stable.

2. Reversing isn't quite as good as the original drive, but it shifts much faster and easier. So it kinda makes up for some of the limited reverse control. It is still much better than my chris-craft that only had a prop and rudder. It is still very maneuverable.

3. Steering is rock solid, and there is no play with the hydraulics. Its nice when you are in a tight channel. You can literally drive with your hands off the steering wheel. its is really nice not having something being pulled out of your hands......

4. I no longer have to constantly trim the boat, when its up, its level. I don't understand why this would change, you would think that it would just be the bottom of the boat.

5. The boat is much faster, or at least accelerates much better. I kept the speeds under 60 because this is only a test run at this time and I have not chased out all the gremlins yet.

6. Bow lift shouldn't be a problem, or at least so far under 60 she rides just like I would want. I even used the tabs to trim the bow down.

7. so far only smooth water, so a rough water review will have to wait.

8. I threw the power steering belt, so I found the first gremlin...on the search to find more.

Carl C
03-26-2017, 07:02 AM
Hmmmm. Intriguing. Keep us posted on progress. I'm tired of Bravo drives.

Ghost
03-26-2017, 07:45 AM
Sounds like a very good first impression, congrats! Interested to hear more as you get more time and refinement of the setup. :)

yeller
03-27-2017, 04:40 AM
Congrats. Sounds like a good first run.
Let us know how it runs when you get a chance to wind it out.

22classic
03-27-2017, 05:56 PM
Here is the video of the first run with the Arneson.

https://youtu.be/b4ZIDJ03-ZQ

22classic
03-27-2017, 06:31 PM
It was mentioned that it is difficult for Arnesons to come onto plane because the props slip etc with being at the surface but here is a video showing us taking off and it gets on plane faster than the original outdrive. There is almost no wake at the nose to climb up and over... It is fun testing and learning from all of this.

https://youtu.be/7Eb1t52pIks

Just Say N20
03-27-2017, 11:15 PM
Very nicely done. And I am pleasantly surprised with how well it ran for the first outing.

It seems very stable, without the porpoising some anticipated. I love how it comes on plane like a ski boat without digging the stern in before getting over the hump.

And you have to admit, the rooster tail is exceptionally cool.

Keep the videos coming! :shades:

Carl C
03-28-2017, 06:33 AM
Dam that is awesome. I can see more doing this. Did the engine have to be moved from original position? What is the estimated total cost of the conversion?

chip w
03-28-2017, 08:18 AM
Very nicely done! Congrats on a good first shakedown run!!! It really looks like it's going to pay off.

22classic
03-28-2017, 12:51 PM
Dam that is awesome. I can see more doing this. Did the engine have to be moved from original position? What is the estimated total cost of the conversion?


The engine is about 1" lower and 3/4" forward.

In terms of cost, it depends if you buy new or used etc. I purchased this used and made sure that it was still in production with all the part etc. I also purchased a used prop because I wanted to first get something to try and if the need arises ill pony up for the 5k prop.

Buying a used asd6 bravo conversion kit and prop I'm in the project somewhere around 10k.

In terms of time, I'm probably in it 40hrs to make the full conversion including fabrication the water pump parts etc.

yeller
03-30-2017, 07:27 PM
Glad it's working out for you.
I am surprised at how quickly it gets on plan. It takes longer for my boat to get on plan with the BH than it did with the Bravo, so I expected your drive to be similar.

Pismo
04-03-2017, 11:14 AM
Very cool, lots of stories out there that an Arneson is no good on a 22. This seems to show otherwise..

roadtrip se
04-03-2017, 05:32 PM
Watched both videos with interest. Looks like a great first run. Congrats.

I would truly enjoy seeing some side shot video, once you decide to air it out.

Good luck!

22classic
04-10-2017, 11:24 PM
I'm working on two things and am looking to the community for help.

After talking with Rick at Arneson, he mentioned that its a lot easier to tune the boat with a trim indicator so you know where everything is at when making adjustments. So I'm installing a heads up indicator, has anyone else done this with a 22 classic? Where did they find space etc?

Secondly, I am modifying Ricks fin to be adjustable. It's not finished but this is the rough idea, there is a piece of stainless on the bottom of the skeg in order for the aluminum to handle the pressure. It should be easier to adjust that amount of lift I am looking for. Who knows, maybe I wont run it at all and its a waste of time.

85808

smokediver
04-11-2017, 06:45 AM
I can't remember who , but someone mounted a stainless marine indicator on top of the dash and it looks really good as well as functional. Maybe they will chime in.

Lenny
04-12-2017, 01:44 AM
I have a weird question. On the wing, and we all know it works ( Geoo ) what if it was fabricated as a plane wing on the horizontal surface ?

Does water react as air does and create lift/suction on these surfaces ?

txtaz
04-12-2017, 01:47 PM
I have a weird question. On the wing, and we all know it works ( Geoo ) what if it was fabricated as a plane wing on the horizontal surface ?

Does water react as air does and create lift/suction on these surfaces ?

Yes. And water is more dense so provides greater lift. Look at the difference in surface area of a jet wing and a hydro foil.

Thus concludes our hydro dynamics class for the day. LOL

Taz

Ed Donnelly
04-12-2017, 08:38 PM
I think I mounted mine on the Criterion SS but flat on the dash..Ed

Lenny
04-13-2017, 12:30 AM
Ed , I don't undersrtand

Just Say N20
04-13-2017, 09:44 AM
Ed , I don't undersrtand

Like this. They lay flat on the dash, rather than stick up through the dash.

They are to the right of the old school Mercruiser trim buttons.

yeller
06-02-2017, 10:59 PM
After you PM'd me, I realized you haven't added to this thread.

There had to be more testing done??

Time for an update.. :fam:

Tom M
06-03-2017, 06:37 AM
Here's a simple flush mount trim indicator made by an Ontario racer who just happens to run a CNC machine shop. I've seen them anodized in blue, black and red.
http://www.hpbc.ca/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2062&hilit=trim+indicator

22classic
06-05-2017, 09:11 PM
The only update so far is that I tried the fin and it seems to have added more stability in terms of limiting the porpoise that the Donzi has always had. I wouldn't say that the Arneson has added any porpoise but that the fin has limited it. it makes sense now that I think about it because it would take alot to move that up and down 3 feet off the back of the boat.

As for speed runs, so far I have only had a full boat with a full tank of gas. But with 5 people and a full tank of gas I am moving along at 60 fairly well, there is more to go!


Best,
Matt P.