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View Full Version : Will My Boat Plane With Mirage+?



Carl C
05-18-2016, 09:42 AM
22 Classic, 525 EFI, XR/Imco -2" shorty. Prop shaft about 5.5" below bottom. I really want to try a Mirage+ prop to see how it affects top end and overall handling. I'm now running a 30p labbed Bravo 1 which works very well but is it holding my top end down? I run 83 mph any day, 86 best & bumping limiter @ 5,400 rpm.

My concern is that my boat will not plane out with a 3 blade prop. I don't have access to a prop to try for free so it will be costly to try one through BBlades especially if it doesn't work and I don't buy it. What is the consensus here. Will my boat plane out ok? Will I see a significant improvement in top speed? Thanks. :propeller:

http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx275/CARLC222/DSCN5839_zpstyjxljt2.jpg (http://s763.photobucket.com/user/CARLC222/media/DSCN5839_zpstyjxljt2.jpg.html)

Pat McPherson
05-18-2016, 03:02 PM
I ran a mirage plus on both my 24' Pantera and 24' Superboat. The prop shaft was about 5" below the V at the bottom on the Super and about 5.5" below the small pad on the Pantera.

I did lots of testing on my Super boat and ran a BBlades modified/lab'd 28p Bravo 1 and a BBlades lab'd 27p Mirage plus. The boat topped out at 75-76mph with B1 and 77-78mph with M+.

As I've said before, I don't like the handling of our old school type V bottom boats with a Bravo 1 prop unless there are modified for extra bow lift. The Rev 4 is a much better choice but unfortunately they don't make a large enough pitch for big power boats. I'm also not a huge fan of the handling with a stock Mirage plus. I like standard Mirage and Turbo 1 props better. Not sure how high of pitch they make those.

I suggest you have BBlades send you a couple of 3 blade prop options to try; I think like $25 plus shipping per prop.

Another prop I really like is a Hydro P5X, but not going to be as fast as a 3 blade and they're are costly. You won't find a better handling prop in the rough though.

Carl C
05-19-2016, 06:57 AM
Thanks Pat. I'm weighing all of the input I get. Most on OSO say it won't plane or will be hard to plane. Right now the boat is dialed in nicely. I'll probably wait until I get a chance to try a 3 blade for free.

Mr X
05-19-2016, 07:58 AM
It will plane, and should be a bit faster....but will require a little more steering input. :) Be careful.

Carl C
05-19-2016, 08:28 AM
It will plane, and should be a bit faster....but will require a little more steering input. :) Be careful.

Hmmm. Thanks Ted. You know I value your opinion. What do you mean by "more steering input?" Will it induce bad handling traits? I don't want to do that. Handling and overall performance is great with the Bravo 1 but I haven't tried anything else.

Pismo
05-19-2016, 09:03 AM
I think it will plane. Plenty or power in a fairly light boat, should be ok. MPlus goes to 29" which is about the same as a 30" Bravo so worth a go I feel.

yeller
05-19-2016, 11:10 AM
It will plane, and should be a bit faster....but will require a little more steering input. :) Be careful.Well there's no one with more experience with Donzi's than Ted. I ran a Tempest Plus, based on his recommendations and liked it more than the M+. With my boat, the M+ was difficult to get on plane. Sometimes it'd take 3 or 4 tries, because it kept blowing out. Now that's my boat. Back when I got my boat the M+ was the prop being recommended (next to a Turbo), so lots of guys used it on their Classics without issue. A 3 blade will make the back end feel looser, but I liked that feel. For me, the boat was easier to handle with a 3 blade. 4 blades just had too much grab and wanted to twist the boat too much.
Now that was all with a stock Bravo. I didn't have a shorty.


I think it will plane. Plenty or power in a fairly light boat, should be ok. MPlus goes to 29" which is about the same as a 30" Bravo so worth a go I feel.If 29" is the biggest, I'd think that will be the deciding factor for you right there. 29 was the right size for my boat (with the same power as you) and a stock Bravo. Don't you usually need a couple inches more with a shorty? (I realize the innuendo. No need for comments. :biggrin.:)

yeller
05-19-2016, 11:30 AM
Carl, clear your PM box.

Carl C
05-19-2016, 12:02 PM
I think it will plane. Plenty or power in a fairly light boat, should be ok. MPlus goes to 29" which is about the same as a 30" Bravo so worth a go I feel.

Yes, the Bravos are overrated in pitch so a 29 M+ should be about right. I don't want to have to baby it to get on plane unless there will be significant gains in other areas of performance. I sure don't want to go out with a full load and find that I can't even get on plane.


Carl, clear your PM box.

Done.

Pat McPherson
05-19-2016, 02:59 PM
I'll probably wait until I get a chance to try a 3 blade for free.

OK Carl, you made me giggle with that... spend nearly $100K on the boat and don't want to spend a few $$ testing props...:biggrin.:

From my experience, it is best to test props back to back to back with the same conditions and load to get a good comparison... :yes:

My bet is you will go faster with a 3 blade on calm water but will stick with your 4 blade because of handling...:cool!:

Carl C
05-19-2016, 04:24 PM
OK Carl, you made me giggle with that... spend nearly $100K on the boat and don't want to spend a few $$ testing props...:biggrin.:

From my experience, it is best to test props back to back to back with the same conditions and load to get a good comparison... :yes:

My bet is you will go faster with a 3 blade on calm water but will stick with your 4 blade because of handling...:cool!:

I'll pay the money but not if everyone says it won't work. I don't have $50+ to throw away. That's why I'm running it by this forum and OSO. Now there is some promise here so I think the next step is to talk to Brett. I am looking for overall performance offshore. The Bravo provides that but am I leaving 5 mph on the table??

Mr X
05-19-2016, 04:43 PM
Carl, it will be loser in the back as Yeller said. Your not leaving 5 MPH on the table with the Bravo, maybe 2 to 2.5 MPH
it is a bit ill handling with the Mirage, but not horrible.

Carl C
05-19-2016, 05:17 PM
Carl, it will be loser in the back as Yeller said. Your not leaving 5 MPH on the table with the Bravo, maybe 2 to 2.5 MPH
it is a bit ill handling with the Mirage, but not horrible.

OK. Thanks much.

yeller
05-19-2016, 07:04 PM
OK Carl, you made me giggle with that... spend nearly $100K on the boat and don't want to spend a few $$ testing props...:biggrin.:
I'd want to test one for free too if it's not critical to getting the boat running well. Seems Carl has the boat dialed in pretty good, so why toss money away just out of a curiosity. I'm sure it'll be well over $50/prop once you pay shipping both ways.

Carl C
05-19-2016, 07:21 PM
I'd want to test one for free too if it's not critical to getting the boat running well. Seems Carl has the boat dialed in pretty good, so why toss money away just out of a curiosity. I'm sure it'll be well over $50/prop once you pay shipping both ways.

Yes, there will be shipping both ways plus a fee if I don't buy it.

roadtrip se
05-20-2016, 08:33 AM
Ran one for a decade on mine with the 500EFI and shorty package.

tmdog
05-20-2016, 08:39 AM
I'd want to test one for free too if it's not critical to getting the boat running well. Seems Carl has the boat dialed in pretty good, so why toss money away just out of a curiosity. I'm sure it'll be well over $50/prop once you pay shipping both ways.

That's my thoughts.

Pat McPherson
05-20-2016, 10:02 AM
Carl, it will be loser in the back as Yeller said. Your not leaving 5 MPH on the table with the Bravo, maybe 2 to 2.5 MPH
it is a bit ill handling with the Mirage, but not horrible.

This is exactly what I saw on my 24' Superboat.

I've not run a modified/lab'd B1 on my Donzi; only a stock B1 and didn't like it.
I have thought from time to time about labbing my 25p Mirage to see what kind of top speed I'd get. In it stock form it's only 1mph faster than my Rev 4 so I don't run it.

I believe you will need a lab'd Mirage plus 29P to gain the 2-3mph on top over your lab'd B1. Can buy a used 29P M+ for $300-400 then to lab it is another $300 or so. You'll have to decide if the $600-$700 is worth 2-3mph. Does seem like cheep speed if that's what your goal is...

Carl C
05-20-2016, 12:11 PM
This is exactly what I saw on my 24' Superboat.

I've not run a modified/lab'd B1 on my Donzi; only a stock B1 and didn't like it.
I have thought from time to time about labbing my 25p Mirage to see what kind of top speed I'd get. In it stock form it's only 1mph faster than my Rev 4 so I don't run it.

I believe you will need a lab'd Mirage plus 29P to gain the 2-3mph on top over your lab'd B1. Can buy a used 29P M+ for $300-400 then to lab it is another $300 or so. You'll have to decide if the $600-$700 is worth 2-3mph. Does seem like cheep speed if that's what your goal is...

I'm actually happy with the performance I am now getting overall. I don't really need more top end. But then again this is the only prop I have tried! I'm just curious how it would behave with a M+.

Pat McPherson
05-20-2016, 03:12 PM
I always enjoyed testing different props. Like I said earlier, I believe it's best to test 2-3 props the same day under the same conditions. Make a test matrix, collect the data and evaluate the data over a couple beers. I'm an engineer so the nerd in me comes out...

One prop I'd love to try on my Donzi is a Hydro P5X. Hands down the best rough water handling of any prop I tested on my Pantera and Superboat...

Carl C
05-20-2016, 03:37 PM
I always enjoyed testing different props. Like I said earlier, I believe it's best to test 2-3 props the same day under the same conditions. Make a test matrix, collect the data and evaluate the data over a couple beers. I'm an engineer so the nerd in me comes out...

One prop I'd love to try on my Donzi is a Hydro P5X. Hands down the best rough water handling of any prop I tested on my Pantera and Superboat...

I'd love to try some different props but I just can't justify the expense of shipping them back and forth right now. We have a Saginaw Bay fun run coming up in mid July and I'll see if I can get anyone to bring extra props. Now if I was having an issue it would be different but the boat feels dialed in with the 30p Bravo 1 labbed by BBlades. I was a little disappointed that there was no one from Turbo at AOTH last year.

Pismo
05-25-2016, 10:27 AM
The MPlus 29" goes up in diameter as well so should plane ok..

Carl C
05-25-2016, 12:36 PM
Sounds good. Now I need to swing a way to test one for free. No hurry. :)

ITTLFLI
05-26-2016, 10:34 PM
My buddy has a 29 mirage plus he is selling for $350. You could buy it and sell it if it didn't work for you.

Carl C
05-27-2016, 07:20 AM
My buddy has a 29 mirage plus he is selling for $350. You could buy it and sell it if it didn't work for you.

Will it work on a 1 1/4" prop shaft? Has it been repaired? I would want it to be in perfect condition for that price but I am interested.

ITTLFLI
05-27-2016, 11:15 PM
I am pretty certain the same insert that works on your B1 will work on this mirage+. It's perfect. Was a factory test prop. Never been modified.

Email me direct.

Itllfli @ fuse dot net

Carl C
05-28-2016, 07:22 AM
Email sent.

osur866
06-02-2016, 05:23 AM
It will plane, and should be a bit faster....but will require a little more steering input. :) Be careful.

Ted, I found the exact opposite with my 18' while running a stock Bravo I 32" it was loose as a goose and required a ton of steering input, the 29 M+ is actually 1-2 MPH slower but behaves much better, course the 29 M+'s I have have both had more work done to them than Joan Collins did, lol the 32 Bravo was stock and I needed a pair of depends when I got back to the dock, not apples to apples account it's an 18 and not a 22 but interesting that they can behave soo differently, Carl Only way to know is test test test, I attribute the loose handling of the Bravo to too much stern lift for the 18. Steve

Carl C
06-02-2016, 07:59 AM
Ted, I found the exact opposite with my 18' while running a stock Bravo I 32" it was loose as a goose and required a ton of steering input, the 29 M+ is actually 1-2 MPH slower but behaves much better, course the 29 M+'s I have have both had more work done to them than Joan Collins did, lol the 32 Bravo was stock and I needed a pair of depends when I got back to the dock, not apples to apples account it's an 18 and not a 22 but interesting that they can behave soo differently, Carl Only way to know is test test test, I attribute the loose handling of the Bravo to too much stern lift for the 18. Steve

Thanks. I'm working on getting the 29p M+ from Byron. My boat really feels very dialed in with the BBlades labbed 30p Bravo 1. I'm looking forward to trying the M+ though.

osur866
06-03-2016, 08:23 AM
On a side note, had the 18 out this week on a small lake and was running a stock 25p M+ and turned that to 80 on the GPS the acceleration from 40-80 was unreal took honestly about 2 seconds and was still accerating even after I hit the limiter and backed off, lol Prop testing can be fun and work all at the same time.

Carl C
06-03-2016, 08:50 AM
I spent yesterday on the third largest freshwater lake in the world, Lake Huron. Best boating in the world on the Great Lakes system. I just wish the season was longer.

http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx275/CARLC222/DSCN5864_zpsdtdcw2qh.jpg (http://s763.photobucket.com/user/CARLC222/media/DSCN5864_zpsdtdcw2qh.jpg.html)

miike
06-07-2016, 11:42 AM
I run a M+ 25 as my daily prop. I have tried a few Bravos, 26, 28 and they give too much stern lift on my boat which makes it ride rougher. The M+ lifts the bow really high so it's a bit squirrelly but I prefer the way it rides. I also run a Herring labbed M+ 27 occasionally which I really like, but the edges are thin so I don't use it much otherwise it would get dinged, especially in the salt water where we have kelp and sticks everywhere.