PDA

View Full Version : 2006 22 classic cracks / Firewall Panel question



Namstradamus
03-30-2016, 09:45 PM
I have a 2006 22 Classic with a 496 Mag HO. Last season we noticed 1x 10" crack and a slight Crack opposite side in the interior engine carpartment located on the left and right wall midway down near the firewall panel. We noticed that the firewall panel was loose and speculate that the panel being loose may have caused stress on the boat and caused the cracks.

Question: does the firewall panel have any structural value in keeping the boat from twisting during movement?

The fiberglass guy we are using can't get access to the entire Crack because that front panel is in the way and wants to cut a section out to gain access. He will replace it with diamond plate thereafter.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Namstradamus
03-30-2016, 09:52 PM
I apologize for my terminology. Firewall Panel or bulkhead broke loose from frame and I speculate that is what caused the Crack.

BUIZILLA
03-30-2016, 09:55 PM
pic's?

you might want to crawl underneath with a light and check the lifting strakes for cracks as well

yeller
03-31-2016, 12:40 AM
The panel helps to support the deck, but it's "structural" value is questionable. It definitely helps, but how much...?? Older classics didn't even have the panel.
I would be concerned in why it broke loose. It's unlikely the panel breaking loose caused the crack. It's more likely some major flexing happened which caused the crack
and broke the panel loose.

Don't want to be Mr. Negative, but (as Buizilla said), go under the boat with a light and look at the ends of the center lifting strakes for cracks. Yours wouldn't be the only boat showing cracks there. For a while, Donzi was paying for the repair, because it was somewhat common. Make sure your light is very bright. I couldn't see my them with a flashlight, but when I checked a second time with a halogen work lamp, they showed up.

Post some pics if you can. Is the crack in the area I marked in the picture?

Namstradamus
03-31-2016, 02:45 AM
See attached photo. Thanks for the comments. Yeller my Crack appears to be one tier up from yours port side ... On opposite side there is another minor Crack in same place but not nearly as noticeable. We are at a point where the fiberglass guy can fix the area by cutting a half moon in the panel to fix the crack from end to end or he can pull the motor out and thoroughly examine if there is other damage... It will cost way more if he yanks the motor... What do you think?

yeller
03-31-2016, 05:05 AM
What do you think?
I always get concerned when someone asks me this. Too many people are "experts" on the internet. Please don't think I am. I only have an opinion. I am far from an expert.
That being said, it almost looks like the crack is a delamination of the end of a section of fiberglass. I say that because that's an odd place for fiberglass to just crack. That's on the side of the stringer. One of the strongest parts of the boat. That's why I'm leaning towards delamination....but your fiberglass guy should be able to determine that.

If it's just delamination, I'd just grind it down and glass in a patch. Before I went any further, I'd definitely check the underside of the boat. If there are any cracks showing up there, the motor will have to come out. I have a copy of Donzi's repair schedule that I can give you.

gcarter
03-31-2016, 11:27 AM
What everybody said is true.
You really can't do much to fix the inherent problems a good number of boats exhibited during that time of manufacture w/out pulling the engine.
My own 22 is of an older series, and built by a different owner of Donzi, but exhibited its own share of hull problems. Overall, a thorough inspection of the inside and bottom of the hull is called for.
BTW, the "firewall" was installed in '94 and later boats to support the deck in the area of the rear seat back. Earlier boats had virtually no support in that area and were infamous for cracks in the gel. It's also a handy place to hang equipment.

Selenium
03-31-2016, 06:05 PM
84167

Here's the cutout to get access to the crack.

gcarter
03-31-2016, 08:33 PM
One simple thing you can do to satisfy yourself as to the seriousness is to use a small grinder on the edge of the area and see where it goes.
It may be like Yeller mentioned that it's nothing more than the edge of some (non-structural) glass that was used to fill in the transition of the "shelves" and the hull sides.

Morgan's Cloud
04-01-2016, 07:24 AM
It appears to me that the crack is on the inside of the hull right above the chine . Is there any evidence on the outside of what is showing on the inside ?

Selenium
04-01-2016, 12:42 PM
It appears to me that the crack is on the inside of the hull right above the chine . Is there any evidence on the outside of what is showing on the inside ?

No just the inside. more details to come.

yeller
04-01-2016, 01:09 PM
Yes, I was mistaken on where the crack was. Going by the first pic I thought it was on the side of the stringer. Now I can see it is on the side of the hull, just above the "shelf". I'm going with delamination of the edge of a fiberglass piece. Upon working on my boat, I could tell there is fiberglass that ends there from glassing in the shelf, as well as the bulkhead.

Selenium
04-01-2016, 02:33 PM
Yes, I was mistaken on where the crack was. Going by the first pic I thought it was on the side of the stringer. Now I can see it is on the side of the hull, just above the "shelf". I'm going with delamination of the edge of a fiberglass piece. Upon working on my boat, I could tell there is fiberglass that ends there from glassing in the shelf, as well as the bulkhead.


Does that just happened naturally? Or was it from landing hard and the boat did a natural twist starting at the cross beam at the bottom and delaminated and loosen the firewall piece?

gcarter
04-01-2016, 03:30 PM
Does that just happened naturally? Or was it from landing hard and the boat did a natural twist starting at the cross beam at the bottom and delaminated and loosen the firewall piece?

As time goes by, you'll see the various parts of the hull move around a lot during spirited driving in a chop or wakes, waves, etc.
I suspect these hulls see 10G's at times. Also, a Donzi is not the same quality as a Hinkley.
If that piece is simply filling a gap, then it's purely cosmetic.

gcarter
04-01-2016, 03:37 PM
There were problems occurring during several years of production which includes your boat.
It apparently had to do w/changes Donzi made to the layup procedure as the solution included additional glass and eventually, some coring and additional glass.
The center panel of the keel between the stringers was failing in the area of the engine mounts. Also boats w/ higher HP and were driven harder suffered more than other boats.

JParanee
04-01-2016, 04:46 PM
George

what year were those boats ?

gcarter
04-01-2016, 07:14 PM
George

what year were those boats ?

i'm not sure....probably '02-'08

yeller
04-03-2016, 12:12 AM
Does that just happened naturally? Or was it from landing hard and the boat did a natural twist starting at the cross beam at the bottom and delaminated and loosen the firewall piece?I personally don't consider that "natural". I think the boat landed real hard. If there was only the glass damage, and it looked like delamination, I wouldn't be overly concerned, because that can happen where fiberglass ends if it wasn't wetted out enough, but the fact that the firewall popped off also, would really concern me. The firewall is screwed in pretty good, so it'd take a fair bit of flex to rip the screws out.

The issues George is referring to were a result of Donzi moving the stringers further apart to accommodate the 496/8.1L. Cracks could show up at the base of the stringer, but normally showed up on the underside of the boat first, at the inner lifting strakes.

There's been no mention of anyone checking the underside of this boat. If this hasn't been done, it would be foolish not to. The cracking at the lifting strakes has been known to progress far enough that the glass breaks entirely through, allowing water into the bilge.
Although the damage shown on this boat is different, it does show signs that it sustained some type of flexing, so I'd check it over with a fine tooth comb. Any cracks on the underside might just show up as light pencil marks. That's what mine looked like. If I hadn't know of the issue with other boats, I would have brush mine off thinking it was nothing, because it looked like (less than) minor gel cracking. If fact, you couldn't see them with a flashlight. I had to use a 500 watt halogen work light to see them, but when the glass guy ground into it, the crack went over 1/8" into the fiberglass.

I'm not trying to scare anyone, I'm trying to help. Stopping the problem earlier is far cheaper than waiting until the glass breaks completely through.

Carl C
04-03-2016, 08:01 AM
This is what the bottom cracks look like when caught early. The tape is there so the camera could focus. They are structural but can be fixed. Your crack is on the hull side and needs to be investigated further.
http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx275/CARLC222/Pics%20033_zps9xptgbg4.jpg (http://s763.photobucket.com/user/CARLC222/media/Pics%20033_zps9xptgbg4.jpg.html)
http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx275/CARLC222/Pics%20028_zpsadbgrobm.jpg (http://s763.photobucket.com/user/CARLC222/media/Pics%20028_zpsadbgrobm.jpg.html)

Morgan's Cloud
04-03-2016, 09:58 AM
I personally don't consider that "natural". I think the boat landed real hard. If there was only the glass damage, and it looked like delamination, I wouldn't be overly concerned, because that can happen where fiberglass ends if it wasn't wetted out enough, but the fact that the firewall popped off also, would really concern me. The firewall is screwed in pretty good, so it'd take a fair bit of flex to rip the screws out.

The issues George is referring to were a result of Donzi moving the stringers further apart to accommodate the 496/8.1L. Cracks could show up at the base of the stringer, but normally showed up on the underside of the boat first, at the inner lifting strakes.

There's been no mention of anyone checking the underside of this boat. If this hasn't been done, it would be foolish not to. The cracking at the lifting strakes has been known to progress far enough that the glass breaks entirely through, allowing water into the bilge.
Although the damage shown on this boat is different, it does show signs that it sustained some type of flexing, so I'd check it over with a fine tooth comb. Any cracks on the underside might just show up as light pencil marks. That's what mine looked like. If I hadn't know of the issue with other boats, I would have brush mine off thinking it was nothing, because it looked like (less than) minor gel cracking. If fact, you couldn't see them with a flashlight. I had to use a 500 watt halogen work light to see them, but when the glass guy ground into it, the crack went over 1/8" into the fiberglass.

I'm not trying to scare anyone, I'm trying to help. Stopping the problem earlier is far cheaper than waiting until the glass breaks completely through.


Completely agree with you here , as well as George's previous remarks about the intensity of slam that some boats can experience . In a previous life , in an un-named boat I decided it would be fun to go out for a fun run in a serious small craft warning . I was doing great until a freak gust caused the boat to come down a little off side and crash into a 5' trough . The slam was so great that I thought I had crushed a disc in my spine .Back at the bay I discovered a crack in the inner liner almost identical to the one in the original photo .

I just find it very strange where this fault lies on the hull . I too have a feeling that it was caused by a very , very hard landing and judging by the crack's location I wouldn't be surprised to find spiderwebbing in the gelcoat up near the rub rail and on the deck as well .

Carl's photos illustrate how subtle they can be , and even MORE subtle than his show . You have to look very carefully to see them if they are there .

gcarter
04-03-2016, 12:33 PM
As I mentioned previously, my 22 was built in '87 by a different Donzi owner, but that didn't mean they were any better, in fact, they were somewhat lighter.
Here's a picture of a crack in the same area, i.e., the aft edge of one of the inner lifting strakes. This crack was over 12" long.
If you want more info on my boat and what I did, go to
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?50476-Now-I-m-getting-serious/page4

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32360&stc=1&d=1193516558

gcarter
04-03-2016, 01:15 PM
The issues George is referring to were a result of Donzi moving the stringers further apart to accommodate the 496/8.1L. Cracks could show up at the base of the stringer, but normally showed up on the underside of the boat first, at the inner lifting strakes.

Actually Glen, the wider strakes/stringers came along in '94.
What has always interested me, is why the '94-'02 boats seem to be OK?
IMHO, Donzi changed the layup schedule in '02, or so.
I suppose, deep down, that's why they felt obligated to fix them.

yeller
04-03-2016, 05:55 PM
Actually Glen, the wider strakes/stringers came along in '94.I did not know that. Do you know if they moved the entire stringer, or just in the bilge?
My 2004 had only the bilge portion of the stringer further apart than the stingers ahead of the bilge bulkhead. Maybe the "splitting" of the stringer happened in the later boats? In my opinion, not having a continuous stringer could result in greater flexing of the hull.

gcarter
04-03-2016, 06:50 PM
Glen, I've only seen your deck off, so I can't speak for the rest of them. I'd guess they're all the same.

Carl C
04-03-2016, 09:09 PM
"Hot Shot" Mick's 2004 496 22 Classic had the same wide stringers and wide running surface and never had any cracks and it was always on Lake Erie. He had a Raylar kit on it too. I looked under it myself because I know where to look and no cracks. My '05 had them but I caught it early and Donzis cool reinforcement kit worked and then I beefed it up more when I powered up and no cracks after 10 seasons on the Great Lakes. This is what mine looks like now.
http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx275/CARLC222/Pics%20237_zps1yzwa9ly.jpg (http://s763.photobucket.com/user/CARLC222/media/Pics%20237_zps1yzwa9ly.jpg.html)

Selenium
04-04-2016, 02:34 PM
I had them check the stringers and they told me it looked fine. They found another crack lower near the bilge area hair line crack about 6 inches long. Both are now fixed...and $1400 later. Thanks for all the feedbacks.

RickSE
04-04-2016, 04:49 PM
I've had hairline stress cracks in this same area, lower outside corners of the firewall, for quite some time. Mine are fairly thin the have never developed into anything more than a hairline. I always figured this to be a hard spot in the hull when the surfaces around it can flex.

Selenium, Like Yeller says, I'd make sure you look under the hull at the inner lifting strakes. It looks like you have a hairline at the base of the stringer in the one picture. This was usually a sign of flexing of the inner panel between the stringers, along with diagonal hairlines across the inner panel surface.