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half shell
11-01-2015, 01:34 PM
Hello
Has anyone converted a mid 1990"s 16 Classic 4.3LX V6 alpha drive to a 350 V8?
is it a big deal and will it bolt up to existing drive package and fit under the hatch I know the boat will perform ok with the existing v6 however if I get board with it and want the thru hull exhaust V8 sound is it possible
Looking at the 16 as my first Donzi purchase just because it is the cool one in the 1960"s that started it all in my view.
Thanks Rob

Just Say N20
11-02-2015, 06:57 AM
I am as much of a V8 guy as you will meet. A V8 in a 16 can be done. Someone with experience regarding the bolt patterns will have to chime in.

The truth is, a 16 runs much more balanced with a V6. I had a 16 with a V8, and it sounded GREAT! But it is super tight to work on a V8 in the small engine compartment of the 16, and the front of the engine is only about 1" from the seat back.

If you really want a V8 sound, buy an 18, or a 16 that already has a V8.

Magnum Ralph
11-02-2015, 10:03 AM
Agreed get an 18. Good luck .

woobs
11-02-2015, 11:50 AM
If you're still bent on a V8, the FORD small block is narrower and lighter than a SBC.

Pat McPherson
11-02-2015, 01:00 PM
You can always swap the cam, intake, carb, exhaust manifolds, and up the power on the V6.

half shell
11-02-2015, 04:50 PM
Thanks all
I like the 16 since it was from donzi since the beginning however I'll be looking at 18's for the v8
I suppose I could work on the v6 model to increase power but power is not as much an issue on the 16 looking more for sound and thru hull exhaust
So both the 16/18 are on my list
Thanks again
Rob

smokediver
11-02-2015, 07:38 PM
You will need to move the front engine mounts forward. I found making the front hole the rear hole and then drilling a new forward hole works. The drive ratio needs to be switched. I am guessing u have a 1.68 and you will have a limited choice in props.
Having done it , I wouldn't. It's real tight quarters the engine fits in with all accessories minus the exhaust. You will need to turn it to starboard , if I remember correctly , and tilt it a little forward. It won't go in any other way.
I would go with an 18 with a 350 mag. It's very reliable.

mattyboy
11-08-2015, 08:33 AM
the 16 is a great and fun boat but it has it's limitations. If you are looking for that old school cool factor and want a tribute to the history of the 16 you need to get a SkiSporter not a Sweet 16 or a 16 Classic.


the 16 runs better with less weight in the back so if you can get a 4.3 to near 300 hp you will have a good runner.

Sound is great but these days can be a hassle depending on where you boat. Also how you boat sometimes it is nice to go silent and talk to passengers in no wake or idling around the dock. 6 bangers sound a bit funky thru hull.

I agree the 18 or 22 are better running platforms Smoke is right if you can find a late model 18 350 mag bravo boat with QnQ or Capt call it would be a good boat and turn key

the 18 will be easier on your passengers and perform better plus most onlookers at the dock think every donzi is a sweet 16 :rolleyes: and from Italy :rolleyes:

woobs
11-08-2015, 09:39 AM
If you want to stick with the 4.3... I started with a 175HP version and built a pretty nice little mill (see below) for my other boat. It is pretty much all stock stuff, (for reliability) with a little clean up of the rough edges. There's plenty of room to work around but, I cannot attest to the sound as i ran the exhaust through the drive. Features are:

Edelbrock Performer 600cfm carb (with calibration kit)
Edelbrock Performer manifold
Vortec heads
1.6 lifters
roller rockers
Hi Tek exhaust manifolds
cam grind (as on chart below)
alloy water pump and pulleys

83230832278322883229

It jumps up on plane and pushes my 18' wood boat to just under 50mph (GPS) with a 1.50 ratio and turning a 19p High Five SS (watersports) prop. Overall a very driveable motor with power everywhere under the curve. Unfortunately, at the moment it does not pull over 4,100 rpm so, I have just bought a 1.65 ratio gear set for next year. Hoping to see 55-ish mph next summer in the ol' woody :)

The 4.3 alloy block/heads actually do exist but are near "unobtainium" to find. Alloy heads are available and only cost $$$. The greatest weight savings I experienced is from the Hi Tek exhaust manifolds but the alloy circulating pump helps too.

woobs
11-08-2015, 09:55 AM
.... If you are looking for that old school cool factor and want a tribute to the history of the 16 you need to get a SkiSporter not a Sweet 16 or a 16 Classic....

Matty, that's an interesting statement. Can you please elaborate?

joseph m. hahnl
11-08-2015, 10:12 AM
the 16 is a great and fun boat but it has it's limitations. If you are looking for that old school cool factor and want a tribute to the history of the 16 you need to get a SkiSporter not a Sweet 16 or a 16 Classic.


the 16 runs better with less weight in the back so if you can get a 4.3 to near 300 hp you will have a good runner.

Sound is great but these days can be a hassle depending on where you boat. Also how you boat sometimes it is nice to go silent and talk to passengers in no wake or idling around the dock. 6 bangers sound a bit funky thru hull.

I agree the 18 or 22 are better running platforms Smoke is right if you can find a late model 18 350 mag bravo boat with QnQ or Capt call it would be a good boat and turn key

the 18 will be easier on your passengers and perform better plus most onlookers at the dock think every donzi is a sweet 16 :rolleyes: and from Italy :rolleyes::rofl:So true :rofl:

I'd like to point out that the 18 has also been there since 65 . Other then deck cover changes It's production has run uninterrupted since it's inception.

I agree with Pat you can build the 6 cyl. Mufflers are a must for compliance when running through hull exhaust.
Here's a little v8 sound you desire :biggrin.: Note 76 dB for compliance :kingme:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB_xViJUs0E

mattyboy
11-08-2015, 10:13 AM
Woobs

if he his looking for the one that started it all ,back in 1964 it would be a Ski Sporter the original 16 LH helm 1964-1980


The sweet 16 was RH helm as was the 16 classic ( 1990 and newer) and are newer versions but they are different boats and really only share the "16"

I guess I look at it that the SkiSporter was the original and ceased to exist in 1980 ending the "genetic" link to the Aronow era, the newer 16 are related but the blood lines are much thinner after a decade of absence in the model lineup and lack of original molds.

now that I think of it the 18 has more of an uninterrupted blood line to the past even with it's deck and hull redesign

joseph m. hahnl
11-08-2015, 10:27 AM
Matty, that's an interesting statement. Can you please elaborate? I take it he's talking about :boggled:, The Ski Sporter is the original Walters design and popped from the original mold. In the infinite wisdom of Donzi they scraped that mold when they discontinued the 16. When they re introduced as the sweet 16 it was actually a splash of a splash which had bee altered for patent restrictions. So technically a Sweet 16 and a Classic 16 are not true hulls made from 1964 mold, and differ significantly.:yes:

joseph m. hahnl
11-08-2015, 10:37 AM
Matty you beat me to the punch :rofl: See! I new what you meant:kingme:

woobs
11-08-2015, 11:14 AM
Okay, I get the LH to RH thing... and I know the inner lifting strakes are much longer on the newer 16 and Sweet 16 but, the LOA, beam, deadrise of the actual hulls... all the same. What other "significant differences" in the design are there?

Also, Shepherd Boats had original Donzi moulds (from Florida) when producing their licensed boats in Canada.... I wonder what happened to those moulds???

mattyboy
11-08-2015, 11:25 AM
going on the published info yes there were changes to LOA and Beam in the newer versions

possibly due to the 10% rule in regards to splashes and copyrights and Donzi took a splash of a splash

the SkiSporter 16'7 1/2" LOA 7' Beam

http://www.lgdonziclassic.com/pdfs/skisportlit.pdf


The sweet 16 16'8" LOA 6' 10" Beam the brochure says classic but it is the sweet 16 pictured this is before they made the 2+2 classic

http://www.lgdonziclassic.com/pdfs/sweet16.pdf


The 16 Classic 16' 5" LOA 6' 11" Beam

http://www.lgdonziclassic.com/pdfs/16classic.pdf

mattyboy
11-08-2015, 11:43 AM
A Footnote

the SkiSporter during it's production run was never formally called a sweet 16 it was always given that nickname when much later ,people were recalling the golden days of Donzi.

when OMC Donzi re-introduced( in 1990 after a decade of non production) the 16 it had "Sweet 16" decals on it first time it is formally called a sweet 16


referring to the 18 and 22 as Classics came during the Staples era when they added the larger Z boats to the lineup

in the mid 1990s AMH Donzi introduced the 2+2 seating 16 and at one point dropped the lounge seating model the 16 2+2 Classic then for a short time in the 00's they re-introduced the lounge seating calling it the Sweet 16 and the other 2+2 the Classic

it is easy to pick out a newer 16 they look stubby stout husky whatever you call short and fat

woobs
11-08-2015, 03:07 PM
Interesting.

I had always thought the discrepancies in LOA and beam dimensions to be anomalies or, errors in measurement; as the Ski Sporter dimensions come from the actual drawings, and I assumed the newer "splashed" hulls were measured after being popped from the mould.

So what is the 10% rule?

John C in PA
11-08-2015, 08:47 PM
Hey Mattyboy, my Sweet 16 asked me to tell you this:

83233

John C

mattyboy
11-09-2015, 11:54 AM
Interesting.

I had always thought the discrepancies in LOA and beam dimensions to be anomalies or, errors in measurement; as the Ski Sporter dimensions come from the actual drawings, and I assumed the newer "splashed" hulls were measured after being popped from the mould.

So what is the 10% rule?


I think it goes that there needed to be at least a 10% difference in design and features if you were making a similar version of an existing design and not an exact copy without license. Not sure how they figured the 10%
the changes in the LOA and Beam I mentioned are roughly 3-4% different from the original .

It was also not a matter of the original 16 molds being mothballed The Chisholm's got rid of the 16 molds the last one was popped in 1980 When the Staple era began there were no 16 molds at the factory. word on the street was they( chisholms) were possibly looking at a law suit on that model which lead to stopping production and also may have been a factor in selling as well . When OMC bought Donzi they put the 16 back in the lineup but didn't re-tool a plug and mold from scratch they just use an existing splash being made at the time.

I had heard from an old timer who was a large OMC dealer in the late 80's they were looking $$$$$$$ for a mint 16 skisporter to take a mold off of but I would imagine they saw the error of their ways quickly and a skisporter was not going to work for them.

when OMC passed the production to goshen indiana the people at Chris Craft refined the 22 hull adding a reversed chine not sure if they did the same for the 16 and 18 haven't had the tape on one . The Donzi by CC were well built boats and sometimes get a bad wrap

the heritage is there on all the classics but some classics have more of a direct lineage to the golden era of Thunderboat row