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mattyboy
09-09-2015, 01:54 PM
Looking for a reliable plug and play 4bbl marine carb for the 5.0 the Holley has been nothing but a PITA
The Holley is a 4160 I think looking I guess for around a 600 cfm

Any suggestions

Thanks

Pat McPherson
09-09-2015, 02:45 PM
Looking for a reliable plug and play 4bbl marine carb for the 5.0 the Holley has been nothing but a PITA
The Holley is a 4160 I think looking I guess for around a 600 cfm

Any suggestions

Thanks

I've had great luck with Edelbrock 600 on small blocks and 750 on big blocks. About $400 from any number of sources; bolt it on and go...

http://www.summitracing.com/search/product-line/edelbrock-marine-carburetors/cfm/600

John C in PA
09-09-2015, 03:37 PM
I've had great luck with Edelbrock 600 on small blocks and 750 on big blocks. About $400 from any number of sources; bolt it on and go...

http://www.summitracing.com/search/product-line/edelbrock-marine-carburetors/cfm/600


Patrick, what is gained by putting a 4 bbl on a stock motor without doing the cam too? I ran the Summit Racing CFM Calculator which shows at 5,000 RPM from a 302 you flow 371.38 CFM (street) or 480.61 CFM (racing). "The ratings are different because street engines have a volumetric efficiency around 85% while racing engines are closer to 110%."

John C

mattyboy
09-09-2015, 04:29 PM
I used the specs for a 69 HM 302 which is listed at 240 hp which is a 4 bbl carb setup. when i went over the motor build with the shop they said the carb should be a 600 like the 351

the 4160 comes in a 390, 450 and 600 cfm versions The block is an 87 5.0 which in stock form is 225 hp.
Not sure I understand a stock motor do you mean going from a 2 bbl to a 4 bbl means an intake first before the cam I used a weiand 4 bbl spread bore stealth high rise intake which is what it had on it on it when i got it just an older version
the motor runs well just have problems with the idle and low end rpm range it does bog for a second then takes off if trying to plane quickly but the mid range punch and top end the motors screams
Just looking for a carb that I am not always fiddling with

John C in PA
09-09-2015, 08:18 PM
Matty, I was thinking of my 302 HO which came with the 500 CFM 2 bbl Holley. Some time ago I asked the Cobra guy at my shop about switching to a 4 bbl and he told me w/o replacing the cam the carb wouldn't get me much. Never had trouble with my carb. Knock wood.

John C

joseph m. hahnl
09-09-2015, 08:44 PM
Edelbrock's are the so much easier to work on and the no leak float bowl is a bonus too.

Matty: Did you set your power valve with a vacuum gage? The wrong power valve can put your idle performance in the sea bucket :biggrin.:

tmdog
09-10-2015, 07:47 AM
Power valve is not part of the idle circuit and inactive at idle.

Hooligan1
09-10-2015, 07:53 AM
Great choice, the Edelbrock carb is excellent. When a Holley starts to wear out, the shaft bushings are a big source for an air leak which makes it almost impossible to tune. Having that carb properly rebuilt can be very expensive. Sure you should match your carb to the cam but you should match all of your components together. It is much more important to match the carb to the intake and don't get too involved with the engineering and math behind the subject and don't base your knowledge on one mechanic, keep asking around. I've been at this for over 40 years now and I'm speaking from my own experience.

Pat McPherson
09-10-2015, 09:06 AM
I thought Matt was done with the Holley and ready to replace?
My suggestion, based on past experience, both marine (chevy 350, 454, 502) and in a Mustangs (ford 289, 302, 347), was that Edelbrock Carbs are plug and play or closest to it anyway.
I'd buy a 600 Edelbrock Marine carb and a 1" 4 hole spacer/adapter to mate with the existing spread bore intake. That's me and it's not my $$, it's Matt's...:cool:

woobs
09-10-2015, 12:39 PM
I used an Edelbrock 600 with my 4.3L V6 (237 HP) and a performer manifold. I had to add a calibration kit as the 6 is well, a six and not an eight. Nothing special for the cam ...just the stock grind from the 4.3 220hp EFI version. We set it up on the dyno and it works beautifully pulling to 5200. I have not touched it since that day (3 seasons). The power translated to real application perfectly and the boat jumps out of the water to plane with no bogs or flat spots. Highly recommended.
82971829728296982970

mattyboy
09-10-2015, 12:49 PM
Had it rebuilt 2 seasons ago and have had to tune it several times with a gauge it is ok for a while then acts up

Sounds like the edelbrock is the way to go

Donzi_Dude
09-10-2015, 01:19 PM
the edlbrock is the biggest turd you can put on a boat. if you must have one buy a 750 i will bet you $20 that it makes a min. of 10 HP over the 600 on your 302.

if you want to make 20HP buy this.

http://www.demoncarbs.com/5282010GC.asp

Pat McPherson
09-10-2015, 01:40 PM
the edlbrock is the biggest turd you can put on a boat. if you must have one buy a 750 i will bet you $20 that it makes a min. of 10 HP over the 600 on your 302.

if you want to make 20HP buy this.

http://www.demoncarbs.com/5282010GC.asp

My bone stock 502 with the 750 Edlebrock will turn 5000rpm pushing my 22C to 73mph GPS... Then, throttle back and she idles at 600rpm... No issue! knock on wood:yes:


Now would the engine make a little more power with a finely tuned 800-850cfm Holley or Demon? Yupe, but...

chip w
09-10-2015, 03:25 PM
Had it rebuilt 2 seasons ago and have had to tune it several times with a gauge it is ok for a while then acts up

Sounds like the edelbrock is the way to go

When I had the '69 with the 302 HM it had a Rochester 750 on it. It ran great on the top end but did the same as yours on the low end. My understanding was that the bogging was too much fuel at low end and it was flooding it out. I replaced it with a Holly 550 CFM and it was great at idle and hole shots. We wanted that as we used the boat for skiing, but I probably lost a little on the upper end. The smaller carb seemed to suit our needs. I did hear that after I sold the boat they had to rebuild the carb, typical for a Holly, but it was probably 5 to 7 years old by then. I haven't used the Edelbrock but I think that a 600 CFM would probably solve your problem.

joseph m. hahnl
09-10-2015, 06:56 PM
Power valve is not part of the idle circuit and inactive at idle. Oh but it is:yes: It's a huge part of the idle circuit when it opens prematurely . Hence the reason you need a vacuum gage at idle to put the correct vacuum opening. Not my first walk in the park with a Holly . Buy the Holly book you might learn something:worthy:

Matty: I run an AFB Webber(Pre Edelbrock) 600 on the 350 cid and an Edelbrock 750 on the 400 cid. easy cleaning, easy meter jetting. now worries about float bowl gaskets leaking. all around a great carb. I think you'll be overjoyed with the trouble free performance they offer:kingme:

Donzi_Dude
09-10-2015, 07:10 PM
My bone stock 502 with the 750 Edlebrock will turn 5000rpm pushing my 22C to 73mph GPS... Then, throttle back and she idles at 600rpm... No issue! knock on wood:yes:




i thought bone stock 502 run 76-78 in those boats...

duckhunter
09-10-2015, 10:04 PM
Another vote for the Edelbrock 1409 600cfm carb for a small block!

It's as close to plug-and-play as you can get. I have a huge box of Holley parts and have used & tuned them extensively, but went with an Edelbrock and couldn't be happier.

82974

82973

Pat McPherson
09-11-2015, 01:20 PM
i thought bone stock 502 run 76-78 in those boats...

Maybe, but I've not ever heard that. I've seen guys say 74-75 on GPS running a 3blade.
I run a 4 blade and it probably cost 1mph. Every boat is different.

Again, Matt was asking for opionions for a replacement carb that was plug and play, not one that would eak out every last HP from his engine.

Pat McPherson
09-11-2015, 01:22 PM
Another vote for the Edelbrock 1409 600cfm carb for a small block!

It's as close to plug-and-play as you can get. I have a huge box of Holley parts and have used & tuned them extensively, but went with an Edelbrock and couldn't be happier.

82974

82973

Vary well done!
Here's mine; it's got a turd for a carb and the boat only tops out at 73, but...:)

Sidney073
09-15-2015, 08:19 PM
The Edelbrock is a great carb, the only thing in my opinion that is unique about it is that it uses metering rods, and jets for tuning. It has a Power Valve which is a piston type like GM factory carbs. They usually are plug & play on stock or near stock engines. The thing with Holley's is that you can find tuning parts everywhere. Jets, Power Valves, etc are plentiful. The Power Valve is very important to idle quality, and on performance engines it must be tuned to the Idle Vacuum of the engine, they are available from the stock 6.5" vacuum stock down to at least 2.5" vacuum for high performance cam profiles. There is also a plug to disable it entirely, which requires richer jetting to compensate for its removal.
Also another thing with Holley Marine carbs is they have spring loaded needle & seats to prevent flooding from the rough ride on the water, if a standard needle & seat is used intead this could lead to flodding from the fuel level rising.
I am currently tunning a Predator VV Carb on my 383 in my 76 Classic 18, and I love it, runs like it has EFI.

duckhunter
09-15-2015, 09:10 PM
Vary well done!
Here's mine; it's got a turd for a carb and the boat only tops out at 73, but...:)

Looks great!! :cool!:



The Edelbrock is a great carb, the only thing in my opinion that is unique about it is that it uses metering rods, and jets for tuning. It has a Power Valve which is a piston type like GM factory carbs. They usually are plug & play on stock or near stock engines. The thing with Holley's is that you can find tuning parts everywhere. Jets, Power Valves, etc are plentiful. The Power Valve is very important to idle quality, and on performance engines it must be tuned to the Idle Vacuum of the engine, they are available from the stock 6.5" vacuum stock down to at least 2.5" vacuum for high performance cam profiles. There is also a plug to disable it entirely, which requires richer jetting to compensate for its removal.
Also another thing with Holley Marine carbs is they have spring loaded needle & seats to prevent flooding from the rough ride on the water, if a standard needle & seat is used intead this could lead to flodding from the fuel level rising.
I am currently tunning a Predator VV Carb on my 383 in my 76 Classic 18, and I love it, runs like it has EFI.

There are tuning kits for Edelbrock available for short $$, along with very straightforward tuning and troubleshooting instructions. Good point on vacuum - a vacuum gauge is a must-have tuning tool for carb motors IMO, and pretty darn available & easy to use.

There are more parts and configurations available for the Holley, which is a blessing and a curse for many folks. You can really chase your tail trying different jet/power valve/air bleed/accelerator pump cams/pump nozzles/etc combinations. Pros can get the most out of them due to their extreme modularity/tunability. For most of us normal Earth folks the Edelbrock is just a lot easier to go bolt on and go boating.

The Predator carbs are awesome; I'd love to try one on a boat.

Pat McPherson
09-16-2015, 12:02 PM
Hey Matt,
I have a 4 hole adapter off a 454mag if you need it. My 502 needed the open adapter.
Patrick

mattyboy
09-16-2015, 05:59 PM
Pat

thanks! :) really appreciate the offer but i was wrong it is a square bore weiand spent some time and re tuned the holley will check this weekend hopefully get the last month and a half of the season out of it

Lil Grizz
09-25-2015, 01:14 AM
I just spent the last 2 months re-overhauling Dads Corsican with a 351c. It had a Holley 650 on it (and another 3 on a shelf) which I replaced after fighting to dial it in right. Same with the spares which I'll be unloading shortly if anyone here is interested.

Not a big fan of the Edelbrock which I also have a few of so I replaced the 650 with a Holley 750 HM-BK Marine from AED. 74 primary and 82 secondary jets. Worked like a charm and was easily dialed in. I'd be happy to share the additional tuning specs to get you in the ballpark if you go this route.

8303583036

BUIZILLA
09-25-2015, 07:37 AM
the 650 you took off was a 4010 series, the WORST carb Holley ever built, EVER, and wayyy too small for that engine in the first place

what you put on is what should have been there all along

Lil Grizz
09-25-2015, 11:00 AM
the 650 you took off was a 4010 series, the WORST carb Holley ever built, EVER, and wayyy too small for that engine in the first place

what you put on is what should have been there all along
Thanks! I did a lot of homework before deciding on that 750.

I wouldn't call the 4010 the worst ever but you're right in that respect that they have a really problematic design for consistency. Very sensitive to any trash that gets in there. Honestly the carb was the least of the problems I've had to sort out so far but the last thing I wanted was a PITA which that 650 certainly is.