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mattyboy
06-14-2015, 01:29 PM
George
I seem to recall you using an electric water pump. I am done with my altered HM setup. The water pump is leaking again the altered bracket and pulley to get power steering pump is just not stable and must bind on the pump bracket . I was thinking about an electric water pump and possibly even an electric power steering pump if they make such an animal

George do you have a make an model on the water pump

Thanks

gcarter
06-14-2015, 02:54 PM
Hi Matty!
I'm using a remote Meziere electric circulating coolant pump.
This pump wouldn't make a good raw water pump as it's NOT
a positive displacement pump.
Here's a link to the pump I'm using: http://www.meziere.com/ps-1148-1116-wp336s.aspx
Meziere has a lot of useful products, so look around their site.

I'm using a Johnson F6-B9 crank driven raw water pump that I purchased from these folks: http://www.marineexhaustmanifolds.com/raw-water-pumps.htm
They're a large supplier to ski boat owners and have a lot of products that fit Fords.

I only know of one electric P/S pump and it's intended for sail boats and I don't think it
has enough capacity for an inboard power boat and make a happy installation.

I'm using a GM Type 2 P/S pump that I bought from Summit Racing:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf-all48250
And here's a mounting bracket for small block Fords:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/krs-krc31610000

BUIZILLA
06-14-2015, 04:27 PM
I thought Grizz put an electric PS pump on the Corsican?

gcarter
06-14-2015, 06:37 PM
I thought Grizz put an electric PS pump on the Corsican?

I don't believe he actually did it. I know we talked about it several times.
The problem w/the electric pump in question is it has the output of about 2.5 cu. in. per revolution,
so it could take a lot of turns, or a very small cylinder.

mattyboy
06-15-2015, 06:57 AM
Thanks George I really regret not modernizing the old Holman Moody front end of the motor now. The casual engineering used to add powr assist steering and the whole HM water pump thing and motor mount don't play we'll together hope I can get the season out of the pump and deal with it over the winter
I may look to add an hydraulic helm and scrap the PS pump and use a johnson crank pump any tthoughts on those helms?

BUIZILLA
06-15-2015, 07:12 AM
pretty darn sure Grizz did do it................

woobs
06-15-2015, 07:43 AM
Matty,

I looked into this last year. First, for the electric circulating pump it is very difficult to find a Ford marine application however, there are some "universal" marine units that could be used. The cost wasn't so bad but I couldn't wrap my head around a "clean" install.

As for the power steering pump... yes, there is such an animal. The "Sea Star" brand is what I figured would work best. I think they have many systems to choose from depending on application. You would probably need to chat with their tech guys. Oh, and get your wallet out because these guys aren't shy. $1500-$2000 for the pump alone.

Here is the outboard pump. http://www.seastarsolutions.com/products/hydraulic-new/power-steering-new/spa/

By the time I was done all the figurin'... I couldn't justify much (if any) power use savings on the engine. The installation looked to be problematic as you're breaking new ground, and I'm sure some trial and error will occur to get the system right. Lastly, I wanted a clean looking motor (and engine bay). Having to locate the required equipment and plumb it neatly in accessible areas is not only a custom job but also not an easy job. At the end of my research I felt the benefits did not outweigh the cost, effort or result.

I still love the idea/theory but, maybe it just needs a better person than me to figure it all out.

mattyboy
06-15-2015, 11:02 AM
Thanks guys some things to think about

my first choice and probably the easiest and most economical would be to get this johnson pump and just bolt it up to the pulley.
I am not sure that the body of the pump is long enough. when they added the power steering they added a deeper 2 belt pulley over the single belt HM then welded the teeth for the lovejoy in the new pulley . If this pump fits into the pulley with out the hoses rubbing I would align the inlet and the outlet to starboard so the water intake hose would go directly to the pump. the I would need 3 90 elbows on the outlet ,one up one over to port then one in to the HM cross over. This would also eliminate the need for the HM pump bracket. Then maybe i could fabricate some kind of bracket support for the PS pump.

The next option would be to scrap the HM front plate and motor mounts and go to indmar/OMC/PCM/VP modern ford side motor mount and standard front end mounting . This means drilling holes and moving the stringer motor mount brackets and all new tstat housing , water and ps
pumps, pulleys and belts

Morgan's Cloud
06-15-2015, 11:30 AM
Matty , when I got the St T in 1987 one of the things I did as part of it's initial freshening was to change over to Hynautic steering . I've never run it with cable steering .
Back then the stuff was a lot cheaper than it is now even though it was in a different ballpark price wise than a new cable and helm unit.

No interference with the engine whatsoever and you can drive hands off the wheel at any speed with no feedback . It does, however , take a little more input hard over to hard over than a cable setup.
Possibly worth considering when you figure out how long it could take and how much it could cost to get a p/s system that you're happy with . Then your water pump will have all the unfettered real estate it wants .

Ed Donnelly
06-15-2015, 11:47 AM
Matty my 16 did not have power steering. Just went with the Seastar system for a Volvo 290...cost.....
I bid on the hard parts on E Bay to get better pricing
Electric pump reg $1,800 got it for $1,250. Steering pump $450
Out drive cylinder $400
And the kicker. 60 feet of tubing $275
Now add 25 % in my case as the Canadian dollar sucks
Pretty sure you will now reconsider your options...Ed

gcarter
06-15-2015, 11:49 AM
The Johnson pump will probably fit through your 3 groove pulley, my after market 3 groove pulley works fine w/the pump.
There's a lot of after market stuff available from Summit or Speedway.

yeller
06-15-2015, 01:07 PM
I like that mount for Johnson pump. Nice and solid. If you use the Johnson pump, you'll probably have to get some spaces made for the bolt holes so it centers properly on the crank/pulley. Unfortunately, the pump is not designed to self-centred. From what I've read, most seem to get spacers made for the bolt holes so the bolts fit snuggly through the holes.

I had someone make a disc that centres the pump.
82367 82368

For the circulating pump, I'd recommend the Meziere. It seems to be the only electric pump that consistently gets positive reviews. There are cheaper ones on the market.....but you know the old saying.
I bought a cheaper one from someone on OSO and I now wish I'd just spent the extra cash up front. I've had to take mine apart to fix the seals and I'm crossing my fingers it now works properly.

gcarter
06-15-2015, 02:41 PM
Glen, my after market aluminum billet 3 groove pulley had a rather thick web (it affected the stabilizer bracket location).
I had a machine shop cut a pilot into the web which centered the pump and made the web thinner.
Recently, I replaced the pump because I blew out the shaft seal from overpressuring the pump on the hose.
The new pump had a very slightly larger flange diameter and wouldn't quite fit in the pilot so it started a (small) wobble.
I pulled the pump and pulley and had the pilot diameter size increased to fit the pump flange and to decrease
the web thickness a bit more.
Here are some pictures:

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=82371&d=1434393675

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=82372&d=1434393677

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=82373&d=1434393678

yeller
06-16-2015, 12:20 AM
Glad you found the reason for your pump wobble George. I believe I found the reason for mine also. My pump bolts to the supercharger pulley, which in turn mounts to the power steering pump pulley. Upon removal, I found that the web on the S/C pulley doesn't butt up tight against the PS pulley. I think I was warping the web on the S/C pulley when I tightened down the water pump bolts. I added a couple washers between the pulleys to fill the space and hopefully that'll cure the problem.

mattyboy
06-16-2015, 07:38 AM
The HM setup only has one pump with a crossover so I am thinking an electric pump may not be the answer hopefully I can get the season out of it and work on it in the off season .