I'm not a VOLVO guy

[woobs]

Okay, I have the chance of picking up a parts boat.
I'm a Merc guy, but this parts boat has a Volvo 270 in working condition.

My project is a 16 Ski Sporter so, I could go Volvo as it is appropriate even though I already have a nice Alpha ready... and I haven't cut a hole for either yet. (I'm planning a 300+HP SBF)

My concerns are:

Is this a relatively modern drive?
How much power can it handle?
Is it a sturdy drive? (what are it's weakness'?)
Can I add power trim?
Will it have power steering capabilities'?
Is it able to push a 16 into the 60 mph range (with appropriate engine)?
Is there a decent prop selection for this type set up?
Do you think it's better than an Alpha (Gen I)?
If I don't want to keep it... what's it worth?

Thanks,
Sean

[Morgan's Cloud]

There's a ton of threads already covering every one of your questions , and many of them very recent .

I think the most you'll have to contend with is others asking you if you want to sacrifice some top end for reliability .

The Volvo 200-250-270-280 drives are exceptional in their build quality and durability but they haven't been made for years. I have no idea what parts availability is like now but it isn't going to be as easy as walking into the Merc shop and picking up a few bits for your Alpha or Bravo.

If you decide not to keep it I'm sure that the 270 will be snapped up in a heartbeat . [edit to add .. as long as it's the v8 gears]

[hardcrab]

Morgan .......... I noticed the 290 didn't make your list, any issues with those?

[Just Say N20]

Regarding the 270 drive, it is exceptionally robust.

They are still readily repairable, but on the pricier end.

It is as hydro-dynamic as a watermellon. That will make it difficult to push a 16 into the 60s. You can add trim, but the correct parts are somewhat scarce.

Sell the 270 and run the Mercruiser.

It took me over 425 hp to hit 65 in my 16 with Volvo 290 that had trim.

[Morgan's Cloud]

Morgan .......... I noticed the 290 didn't make your list, any issues with those?

I was afraid someone might have picked up on that :biggrin.:

In all honesty , I have pretty extensive experience with all of the ones I mentioned , but none with the 290.

However ... I recall many years ago being in the workshop of the local Volvo guru , a guy who started training on Volvos when he was in his mid teens. He said that in his opinion the 290 was junk compared to the others.

Like I said , I have no personal experience running or owning 290s but I respected his opinion even though it was a Volvo on Volvo comparison and I'm sure that in his books it was still light years better than any of the black stuff.

[Greg Guimond]

I'm not sure but I thought that woobs had picked up an Alpha SS for his project but maybe he has just a standard Alpha in the closet and is comparing that to a 270 Volvo.

[hardcrab]

290 be junk durability wise ?

[Greg Guimond]

Throw both projects away and give Ted $35k for his trick X18. You'll spend half as much in the long run and have twice the fun.

[Morgan's Cloud]

290 be junk durability wise ?

Even I would find that a little hard to believe , but the guy never explained his position .
Seeing he lived and breathed the 200-280 series I felt he was referring to it from an engineering/build standpoint compared to the others .

Lord only knows what he'd think of the newest generation of Volvos ..I doubt it would be favorable .

[hardcrab]

N20's post sounds like performance deficiency for the 290 - I'm curious since my 18 (which has been a stalled project forever) came with a 290

[tiupc]

Throw both projects away and give Ted $35k for his trick X18. You'll spend half as much in the long run and have twice the fun.

It would be $50 plus in Canada with the exchange and the HST tax not including delivery. A year and a half ago, when the dollar was par, I would have written a cheque for it in a minute.

Trevor

[woobs]

Thanks for the quick replies.

Yes, I already have an Alpha plate, gimbal assy., upper (x2) and lower.... and all the associated Merc hardware, pump etc... (The extra upper is being shortened 3 inches as an experiment) So, just looking for a reason to buy, or not to buy this donor boat.

So, if I need a 280 shield to get power trim, how hard is that to find? A Volvo just seems right on the back of an old Donzi..... Then again, I`m not sure how good the used Volvo sterndrive market is in my area. But, it truly sounds like I am better off sticking with what I know...Merc.

So, would anybody here be interested in this 270 and yes, V8 gears (cheap) if I somehow acquire it?

The donor boat is good because it has all the SBF niggley little bits & bobs that are collectively too expensive when purchased separately.

As nice as many find the X-18 she ain`t my cup... but, if I were going to throw in the towel I`d be looking for larger. C22, Hornet or maybe a Pantera 24.(I would have liked Silverghost`s unfinished 18 benchseat project if I went back to an 18). Besides, I already have a 50K, 50 mph wooden boat that has constant needs.... I certainly don't need to drop another 50K on my `toy` boat.81716

[mattyboy]

yes it is possible to do a volvo 16 that goes 60 but why? parts are getting harder and higher every year there is a member here with a 16 ford merc 888 that runs mid 60s Forrest i think.

if you have a Merc use it, power steering will be easier make sure you have room for all the accessories , you will be very close to the back seat in an older 16 the volvo makes no sense if the transom will be cut you need a 280T or higher for power steering. the steering adapter will probably make mounting the bracket for the rear lift ring an issue not sure on the merc unit

this is what the volvo power steering looks like

[woobs]

...if you have a Merc use it...

Matty, thank-you! Always wise advice from the voice of experience & reason :) .

Also, since I`m making a benchseat, the rear seat will be moved forward anyways.

[mattyboy]

that's good the pulleys are a poker hand away from back seat in a normal setup

[mattyboy]

Plus the cut out is the same for a Merc or a newer Volvo SX and newer drive. down the road maybe you find a deal on a DP Volvo setup

[mattyboy]

re -read the post as far as the 200-250-270-280-290 go the numbers are for what HP the drive was rated for, in each progression the internals got stronger. They are very strong drives some have pushed way over their rated limit for 40 plus years .

the 200 to 270 are pretty much the same some minor differences but not the 270 T and 280 T are very different in the transom and steering areas. The lower leg on the 280 and 290 are the same with a different anti cav plate design and exhaust exit.

The 290 transom and trim setup is totally different from it's predecessors the steering setup is different too.

not to say these drives are indestructible but they have proven their strength , they do fail I grenading an upper but the smart design of the drive saved the lower. I would not worry about putting whatever a NA SB mill could throw at a 270 or up

the other thing I feel is over rated is trim in a 16 once i propped my 250 right it was set in the middle hole and left there on my 16 . I also stopped using my trim tabs except for water sports

but all that said it is nice to have a modern setup with trim and parts availability. I always browse for parts and other volvo goodies over the past 5 years the V8 parts have become harder to find and the price has risen

[woobs]

After reading all the comments and thinking about this for a while, I think the best thing to do is stay with my Alpha stuff. I have plenty of spare parts and what I don't have is readily available. I think the upper "shortening" experiment will be fun and may yield some performance.

If I buy this donor boat (even though it's only $500) it will still not have some of the parts I need on the engine side of the equation. I'll be stuck with parts that are no use to me and my garage will be that much more full. This seems like a lot of "BS" to go through for a few parts. I have since found another parts boat that has twin 302's. One drive is broken but again, $300 would yield 2 motors, 1 old drive and useable parts + spares and stuff I know how to work with. Problem is it's a 24' boat and I don't have a 24' trailer. With the short time of ownership...(until stripped and sent to the scrap heap/dump) I don't want to buy one either. I'd also have to find a truck bigger than my GMC Canyon I5 to pull the thing.

I'm sure now, the Volvo is a sturdy option and many questions have been answered. Also, it may "look" like it belongs on the back of an early 16 but, the Merc will not seem too out of place either. After all, nothing else on the boat is original. Also Matty, your comments regarding the cut-out are well considered. Moving forward, there are more options with a Merc style cut-out. The Volvo looks to be a good drive, just not for me.

All replies have been gratefully accepted and I thank-you.

[johnnywhale]

this is what the volvo power steering looks like

Nah, this is what Volvo p/s looks like!

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/johnnywhale/hydraulic%20steering/IMG_1061_zps2a9986ad.jpg (http://s225.photobucket.com/user/johnnywhale/media/hydraulic%20steering/IMG_1061_zps2a9986ad.jpg.html)

And they do blow up! (U-joint let go...)

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/johnnywhale/Donzi/IMG_3776_zps02e16ead.jpg (http://s225.photobucket.com/user/johnnywhale/media/Donzi/IMG_3776_zps02e16ead.jpg.html)

Can't wait for spring!

[Just Say N20]

I don't believe for a second that the 290 was not as good at the 200-270-280 versions. I believe it was stronger, as it has the beefiest internals, hence the larger foot to plow through the water. But with almost 440 hp, and 500 ft lbs of torque, my 290 never even got warm, unlike the Mercury Alphas which required a drive shower to live with much over 330 hp, and a gentle throttle hand.

I would still recommend the Merc stuff. Make it your boat all the way. With the nature of your project, originality should be given no consideration at all.

I lost a trim cylinder seal on the 290, and Volvo doesn't offer repair kits. They wanted about $1,200 to replace one of the two rams. Fortunately my local mechanic was able to rebuild it from an inventory of "slightly" used parts for only $185. But repair of Volvo stuff is getting pricey.

And a 16 is light enough that you are not going to be able to seriously load up the drive, short of launches/landings without adjusting the throttle.

[Greg Guimond]

After reading all the comments and thinking about this for a while, I think the best thing to do is stay with my Alpha stuff. I have plenty of spare parts and what I don't have is readily available. I think the upper "shortening" experiment will be fun and may yield some performance. All replies have been gratefully accepted and I thank-you.

Who did you send your stock Alpha outdrive out to to have it shortened by 3" ?

[Morgan's Cloud]

I don't believe for a second that the 290 was not as good at the 200-270-280 versions.


And I don't think so either . HOWEVER , this was coming from a guy who was a Volvo 'surgeon' in my eyes . But , I think he was a bit of a purist in his views of the 200-280 series and for some reason , when the 290 came out he deemed it not as good as the earlier stuff.
You know how the purists are when newfangled stuff comes out .

To be honest , I think the thoughtful engineering and hydrodynamics that went into my DPS-A are superior. And I love having trim and power steering but I still don't think it has the quality of the 200-290 series.

[woobs]

81729

Who did you send your stock Alpha outdrive out to to have it shortened by 3" ?

A local guy here that has made some pretty incredible racing boat bits 'n bobs in years past is the brains of the operation (and the machining skill). It's more of a hobby for him now. So, we'll see together how hard it is and IF he wants to do more conversions.

This pic is last fall. It has since been welded together and we're working on internal shafts.... etc.

[mattyboy]

And I don't think so either . HOWEVER , this was coming from a guy who was a Volvo 'surgeon' in my eyes . But , I think he was a bit of a purist in his views of the 200-280 series and for some reason , when the 290 came out he deemed it not as good as the earlier stuff.
You know how the purists are when newfangled stuff comes out .

To be honest , I think the thoughtful engineering and hydrodynamics that went into my DPS-A are superior. And I love having trim and power steering but I still don't think it has the quality of the 200-290 series.


I think his feeling may have been to the changes they made and the 290 was a one and done. the 200 thru 280 were basically unchanged from mid 60s to the 80s. it could be just a case if why did they mess with it. the 290 was dropped for the SX. I would not have any problem with a VP product and If I had the ching right now would be running the new vp 430

[Morgan's Cloud]

Indeed Matty . I too felt that at the root of it was that the 290 was quite a dramatic departure ( at the time )from the earlier series that he grew up on and could work on with his eyes closed.

One thing for sure that I can tell you . Out here in the 2nd saltiest water on the planet Volvos have always been the only ones that stood up . Both to the environment and how they were run . The black stuff was to be avoided . Only in the last 20 years or so has Merc become more accepted but they're still the cry babies of sterndrives here. A boat with a Volvo gets a better resale price and will sell faster than brand black.

And that's coming from someone who has both .

[mattyboy]

MC
another thing is the engineering VP seems to embrace new technology the DP the IPS VVT and now the forward drive. Another thing is they don't seem to have an "EDSEL" in their track record.

[johnnywhale]

Another plus for the old Volvos is (at least around here) they are plentiful and fairly cheap.

[woobs]

We are sweetwater boaters around here. There are but a few Volvo dealers... however, the vast majority of sterndrives I see are Merc.

The reputation for Volvos is quality but, pricey to buy, expensive to own, and difficult to get serviced. Merc is still not cheap but, it is a good product that performs well. Parts and service are second to none with plenty of alternatives if you don't want to pay dealer pricing. Whether it's a pre Alpha to an Alpha gen II the Merc sterndrive has been a reliable part for recreational boaters since the mid 60's... while other drive designs have been designed to cover ever changing segments of the market.

Merc has been the overwhelming winner in market share here and I do not think people pay less for a boat so equipped. Otoh, I think people shy away from Volvo because they do not know them (and the previously mentioned negative reputation... expensive, lack of service etc... )

[Greg Guimond]

Who did you send your stock Alpha outdrive out to to have it shortened by 3" ?


A local guy here that has made some pretty incredible racing boat bits 'n bobs in years past is the brains of the operation (and the machining skill). It's more of a hobby for him now. So, we'll see together how hard it is and IF he wants to do more conversions. This pic is last fall. It has since been welded together and we're working on internal shafts.... etc.

An Alpha SS is 2 3/4" shorter than a standard Alpha. What made you choose 3" ?

[woobs]

An Alpha SS is 2 3/4" shorter than a standard Alpha. What made you choose 3" ?

Simple. Because the "triple digits" guy did 3.25". His worked... but, I thought it a bit too much. Also 3" splits the difference and is easier to work with on a ruler :)