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champ
02-11-2015, 10:26 PM
I was hoping someone could help identify this prop for me.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251789779190?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Not sure if it is a ultra because it say's 14x25. and it does not say Volvo Penta either. A lot of money not knowing what it is.

jl1962
02-12-2015, 06:21 AM
That's not an Ultra.

This is:
8144781448

What boat, engine, drive, prop etc... are you running now?

champ
02-12-2015, 08:17 AM
My boat is a 1966 17' Champion with a ford 351 W motor. Volvo 270 outdrive. It came with a 14x22 ultra and my r.p.m.'s would rise to around 5,400. Last year I switched to a Solas Titan 3 Blade Stainless 15.63" dia. X 23" pitch CR (http://www.iboats.com/Solas-Titan-3-Blade-Stainless-15-63-dia-X-23-pitch-CR/dm/view_id.476986) and r.p.m.'s did come down to around 5100. A gps app on my phone showed I was just breaking 50 m.p.h.
The boat still jumps up on plane, handles and steers well but I think I could go faster maybe.
This prop on ebay somehow does not come up on any searches or cross reference and was curious as to if it was an ultra or even a Volvo Penta. What appealed to me was the pitch of 25 and what it may do for my boat.
Any advise on this ebay prop would be appreciated.
Below is pics of boat and old vs. new prop.

8145581456

jl1962
02-12-2015, 08:52 AM
Hmmm
Would think a 23" Solas at 5100 rpms would yield more than 50mph.
Should be more like upper 50s/low 60s.
Do you know what drive ratio you have?

My '67 Ski Sporter ran mid/upper 50s w/ a 24" Ultra at about 5K rpm.
I would equate the 19" Solas w/ a 22" Ultra, a 21" Solas w/ 24" Ultra and a 23" Solas w/ a 26" Ultra in terms of HP required.

champ
02-12-2015, 09:54 AM
The outdrive has a Holman Moody plate on it. I believe when I checked it before it was a 1:61. Also I was told in another post a 1966 holman ford came with a 289 c.i., because 302's were not made yet. Now with a 351 with a few performance mods there seems to be no lack in power.
I know this boat is heavy, but seems to me like it could go faster too. Does anyone think there could be too much slippage? Where would I check?
But again back to this prop on ebay. Could it be a deal or not?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251789779190?_trksid=p2060778.m2763.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

jl1962
02-12-2015, 10:20 AM
That's the right ratio.

The other part that doesn't make sense is going from the 22" Ultra to the 23" Solas should've cost you more than 300 RPM.

What speeds were you seeing w/ the 22" Ultra?

Sorry can't help w/ the eBay prop.

champ
02-12-2015, 10:51 AM
With the ultra and the only comparison speed wise, and that was with a jetski clocking me I was doing 45 m.p.h. . The solas is much bigger diameter and pitch, so that is why I thought to get more pitch, and go with this 25 that is on ebay. I did not even notice any loss of power jumping to plane between these two props, just more speed and a 300 r.p.m. loss.

f_inscreenname
02-12-2015, 12:58 PM
I didn't think they made Ultra's in 25P? Thinking it was a 23 and rebent.

champ
02-12-2015, 02:24 PM
it says' 14x25 on the prop and a weird part number sort of laser etched into it. It is close to a volvo part number but not matching any other numbers. Also Volvo Penta seems to be stamped into most of the props I have looked at.

jl1962

The other part that doesn't make sense is going from the 22" Ultra to the 23" Solas should've cost you more than 300 RPM.

What speeds were you seeing w/ the 22" Ultra?

.....so what would you expext the drop in r.p.ms. to be?

jl1962
02-12-2015, 03:03 PM
Not sure.
I think one rule is 400rpm/2" of pitch.
But that's probably for similar props.

The 22" Ultra is a small 22" - small blades and lots of slip.
And the 23" Solas is a BIG 23" - big blades and lots of bite.

But people w/ 23" Solas in 18' Donzis and 350hp+ are running mid 60's.
So something doesn't make sense.

Wasn't able to see the pictures of your boat, but if it's what I think, those are cool!

champ
02-12-2015, 06:18 PM
jl 1962,

The 22" Ultra is a small 22" - small blades and lots of slip.
And the 23" Solas is a BIG 23" - big blades and lots of bite. But people w/ 23" Solas in 18' Donzis and 350hp+ are running mid 60's.
So something doesn't make sense.

Kinda what I am reaching for. I may be off on my rpm's of 100, maxing out at 5000 because that was my target number and that is what I was thinking too, that I should be going faster.


8145781458

Ghost
02-12-2015, 07:38 PM
That seems awfully slow and/or like a lot of slip. Any chance the tach is wrong? Like, it was set up for a 6-cyl maybe? That could put your rpm down at 3900 ish with slip down closer to 5 percent.

For or you folks who know those props, where would you guess the slip would be when wide open at 50mph in a small/light boat like that?

champ
02-14-2015, 02:37 PM
Thanks Ghost for posing the question for me.

For or you folks who know those props, where would you guess the slip would be when wide open at 50mph in a small/light boat like that?

I think the tach is on, and I do feel some slip in the driveline sometimes, if that is what your question pertains to. It's truly sad to hear the words 'awfully slow', cause I really think this boat could do much more.

....so as far as this prop question goes, I bought it. Don't know if I am happy about it yet as it seemed pricey. I thought some on here may of had an interest too and wanted them to have a chance. I would still like to get any input as to if any one has seen on like this before. Very Rare as told to me from the Prop Shop at Michigan Wheel. They even called Volvo Penta for me, they just said it's theirs and is a 14x25 Left Hand Long Hub that has been out of production for a long time.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251789779190?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

yeller
02-14-2015, 02:48 PM
Hmmm
Would think a 23" Solas at 5100 rpms would yield more than 50mph.
Should be more like upper 50s/low 60s.
Do you know what drive ratio you have?

My '67 Ski Sporter ran mid/upper 50s w/ a 24" Ultra at about 5K rpm.
I would equate the 19" Solas w/ a 22" Ultra, a 21" Solas w/ 24" Ultra and a 23" Solas w/ a 26" Ultra in terms of HP required.

If you hit upper 50's and had a 1:50 drive, and his drive is 1:61 like he thinks it is, then 50mph would be about right.

Ghost
02-14-2015, 03:25 PM
For clarity, I only meant 'awfully slow' in the context of the rpm, gears, pitch. :)

champ
02-14-2015, 06:44 PM
I was just being funny. But if it was or is a gear issue, where would I start looking for some 1:50 gears?

mattyboy
02-15-2015, 09:42 AM
your numbers are way off

if you are turning a 23 solas to 5100 you should be north of 60 mph with 1.6 gears

the volvo aq make the ratio in the lower and 4-6 cyl 2 and 1.8 ratios wind up on v8s all the time

your number are dead on for your tach being off 1k or you have a 2.0 lower

when you run the number thru a prop calc use .15 for an ultra and .7 for a solas for slip %

your 351 would need to be in the 350+ hp range to turn a solas 23 anywhere near 5k

have you pulled the drive and checked the ratio?

my 16 with a nose cone and 1.6 gears ran just to 60 with a 351 making 310 hp with a 21 solas @ around 5k rpm I could not turn a 23 anywhere near that

Ghost
02-15-2015, 10:09 AM
If 7% slip is right for a Solas, perhaps the tach is set up for a 6 instead of an 8. The numbers are pretty close to right that way I think. That'd put your true RPM down at about 3800. IF that's what's happening, it could be good news in that you are below peak power down there, maybe 20-30 HP or so. I'd guess getting those extra HP out of it might be worth maybe 4 mph, +- a couple.

If your tach is right, such that you are getting all the power out of the motor, and the motor isn't sick (say, your gearing is different from what you think, accounting for the curiously high slip calculation), then I doubt you'll get much speed out of tweaking the setup. You'd need to add power, whether by hopping up this motor or switching.

jl1962
02-15-2015, 10:39 AM
Matty-

Good to see you checking in!
It won't always be hockey season.......although it sometimes feels that way ;)
Spring training next week.
Ice out...........nah too soon.

Champ - Check the drive ratio. Check the tach.

mattyboy
02-15-2015, 11:58 AM
Jay a lot going on right now boating is far down on the list spring and ice out are a LONG way off here

winter carnival weekend near -30 out on the lake sleds and quads only they had a problem cutting the hole for todays polar plunge ice hasn't been this thick since the 70s

it won't take a trained ear to tell the sound apart from a sbf at 3800 and at 5100 rpm but the tach and ratio need to be checked before you can form a plan

if you are at a 2 ratio it might pay to try that 25 or even a 26 ultra if you can find one. that is a hard mix in a volvo finding high pitch props to run on a high ratio. it is easier to find lower pitch props to run on a lower ratio. the lowest you will find in a 270 thru 290 is a 1.6 they did make a 1.3 in the 250 there is a HM lower 1.3 on ebay now should bolt up to a 270 no problem. but that is a way down the road to you find out what you are at now

DonziJon
02-15-2015, 06:56 PM
Hi Matty: I remember Greenwood Lake in the summer of 1958. I was a 16 year old working for Sullivan Lodges. My job was to rent out the paddle boats. We had a heavy weekend where customers outnumbered paddle boats. There was a paddle boat on the beach.

I had a customer. SO: Always interested in forwarding the interests of my employer, I launched the paddle boat and rented it to two babes.

Problem was the paddle boat on the beach had a leak in the bottom and the boat started to sink when the babes got out into deep water. The babes were rescued..... but my Street Rep was now in question.

Not long after, I got fired for painting the dock with a mixture of paint.... and gasoline. Thinned out paint was a lot easier to ......Oh Well. Just Remembering. DJ

champ
02-15-2015, 08:51 PM
I am certain about the motor being on, it's probably a little nicer than stock. And the power is there even with that big Solas prop. I can tell its reaching max because when I was hitting 5400 r.p.m.'s, I backed it down a little because the valves were starting to float. When I stuck on the Solas, r.p.m.'s were down to 5100 with four barrel wide open, but I was only going 50 m.p.h.

That seems to make sense about the gearing being wrong, I was going off the plate on the outdrive. I have another Holman outdrive that was mated up to a 289.
What ratio would anyone think that to be?

So while we are on topic somewhat, I live here in Maryland, down near Pasadena. Does anyone know of a good outdrive mechanic or rebuilder of the old Volvo drives, that could give me a hand in looking at what I got going on?
81474

Greg Guimond
02-15-2015, 10:13 PM
Hi Matty: I remember Greenwood Lake in the summer of 1958. I was a 16 year old working for Sullivan Lodges. My job was to rent out the paddle boats. We had a heavy weekend where customers outnumbered paddle boats. There was a paddle boat on the beach.

I had a customer. SO: Always interested in forwarding the interests of my employer, I launched the paddle boat and rented it to two babes.

Problem was the paddle boat on the beach had a leak in the bottom and the boat started to sink when the babes got out into deep water. The babes were rescued..... but my Street Rep was now in question.

Not long after, I got fired for painting the dock with a mixture of paint.... and gasoline. Thinned out paint was a lot easier to ......Oh Well. Just Remembering. DJ

DJ is back..............!

Ghost
02-15-2015, 11:10 PM
DJ, great to see you. (sorry for the thread hijack)

mattyboy
02-16-2015, 08:04 AM
I am certain about the motor being on, it's probably a little nicer than stock. And the power is there even with that big Solas prop. I can tell its reaching max because when I was hitting 5400 r.p.m.'s, I backed it down a little because the valves were starting to float. When I stuck on the Solas, r.p.m.'s were down to 5100 with four barrel wide open, but I was only going 50 m.p.h.

That seems to make sense about the gearing being wrong, I was going off the plate on the outdrive. I have another Holman outdrive that was mated up to a 289.
What ratio would anyone think that to be?

So while we are on topic somewhat, I live here in Maryland, down near Pasadena. Does anyone know of a good outdrive mechanic or rebuilder of the old Volvo drives, that could give me a hand in looking at what I got going on?


the 351 changed over it's lifetime the first ones 69-70 were 290 hp stock then after that they were 260 they fell as low as 233 hp then at the end did have pcm versions that were in the 300 hp range.

it is easy enough to pull the drive make marks or indicators on the prop shaft and input shaft turn the prop shaft one rev and see how many revs the input shaft makes. I taped a pencil to both at 12 o'clock the input shaft should turn a tad more than 1 and 1/2 turns on a 1.6

what numbers do you have on the drive? Volvo made a tough drive and the ones mated to 4 cyl have outlive the boats they were hung on they could do 30 yrs behind a v8 nothing except submerged objects would do one in behind a 4 cyl . so now they are a lot of 4 cyl drives on the market

the 270 came out in 71-72 and was stronger than the 250 which was stronger than a 200 the 289 drive is most likely a 200 or 250 and should be a 1.6 the 270 is a replacement drive on your boat

the worst case is the drive is 1.6 the motor is strong and you have a hull issue these old boats can develop bottom problems . storage without the proper support leads to the hull hooking which would affect how the boat rides on it's wetted surface but that also leads to quirks in ride and handling. I don't think that is your problem here

I would check the spare drive if it turns freely and for ratio , if it is a 1.6 grease it and change the oil in it and hang it on the back and re test

good luck



plug any four you know in and it will give you the 5th

http://www.rbbi.com/folders/prop/propcalc.htm

DonziJon
02-16-2015, 07:05 PM
Thanks Ghost, Greg Guimond for your Welcome. I had to notice Matty's Snub. He lives on Greenwood Lake. I have fond memories of the lake...not just 1958.

Oh Well... Some things change and some things remain the same. Reasons why I left the forum. DJ

Just Say N20
02-17-2015, 07:34 AM
Matty is spot on. I had a 16 with the Volvo 290 drive (270 on steroids with trim) that I measured at 1.61:1. I had a strong SBC that dyno'd at 430 hp, and almost 500 ft lbs torque.

It would turn a Solas 23 to 5,300 @ 65.3 GPS MPH. The boat should have been running close to 72, but the big 290 drive was the limiting factor. With the 1.61:1 drive ratio it takes over 400 hp to spin the Solas 23 to 5000.

I suspect the drive ratio is for a 4-cylinder engine.

champ
02-24-2015, 09:38 AM
Would this be a topic for a new post as we are talking outdrives vs. props now. I remember at one time Ghost offered some help to me as we both live in Maryland. Now that I need to look into changing gears and/or outdrives I may be needing additional help. Does anyone have any recommendations or contacts on who may be qualified enough or have the experience it takes to help me with this issue that may be around the Baltimore or Annapolis area. Also, how rare are the 1.61:1 gears to find if I end up needing some?

mattyboy
02-24-2015, 05:21 PM
yes new topic new thread

do a search here for volvo and read up on the drive


do a search on ebay and contact your local marinas to see if there is a donor boat that might have a drive on it

here is one on ebay I found it more economical to find a good used replacement rather than have someone try and rebuild it new aq parts are expensive if you can find them

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Volvo-270-outdrive-/231169940822?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item35d2cd5d56&vxp=mtr

Ghost
02-24-2015, 10:18 PM
Would this be a topic for a new post as we are talking outdrives vs. props now. I remember at one time Ghost offered some help to me as we both live in Maryland. Now that I need to look into changing gears and/or outdrives I may be needing additional help. Does anyone have any recommendations or contacts on who may be qualified enough or have the experience it takes to help me with this issue that may be around the Baltimore or Annapolis area. Also, how rare are the 1.61:1 gears to find if I end up needing some?

F_inscreenname might know if there is someone for hire in our neighborhood who knows how to work on old Volvo drives.