This Donzi Upholstery Work Is Unacceptable!

[Carl C]

A couple of years ago I ran a thread to try to determine why my back seat was falling apart after five years. We finally chalked it up to the idea that something got used on it that shouldn't have been. I ordered a complete new seat bottom from Donzi Direct which was drop shipped by PPI. The new seat was put in the boat in spring of 2012 so it has 2 1/2 Michigan boating seasons on it in fresh water. The boat is always stored indoors. NOTHING has been used on this new seat bottom and it is starting to fall apart like the original one did. I will never use Donzi Direct or PPI for any future upholstery work. The current damage does not show up well in the pics. Also here is a pic of the original seat after 5 or 6 years. This seat does not get abused. It is never touched during the winter. It simply gets sat on and lounged on. I've had other boats with upholstery that was used the same way and was still good after 20 years. WTF?

http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx275/CARLC222/Pictures577Medium.jpg (http://s763.photobucket.com/user/CARLC222/media/Pictures577Medium.jpg.html)

[gcarter]

You may, or may not, want to try a local shop for replacement, but I think I'd certainly try to contact PPI. I'm sure they'd like to know what happened to your seat.

[smokediver]

Don't let people with swamp ass sit on your seats !

[Ghost]

How much use does that get and by whom?

though I doubt it's the issue, one thing that they say to keep off do your vinyl is suntan lotion. Which could get on there despite any boycott on cleaning products.

Out of curiosity, where is the damage relative to where your knees go when opening the hatch and fooling around in the motorbox?

[Greg Guimond]

That's ridiculous and I'd think PPI would replace it for free Carl.

[Ghost]

That's ridiculous and I'd think PPI would replace it for free Carl.

Unless there is something seriously bizarre happening to it, I agree completely.

[gcarter]

OK, I'm confused.....I just pulled out my upholstery the other day and decided it had to go. As far as I could tell though, it may have been original judging by pleating style and condition of the bucket seat plywood and the original seat sliders.
When I bought the boat 7 years ago, it was a tossup as to additional life, but now there's no way I'd have put it back in.
But, in any case, the boat was built 27 years ago.
So, what's the difference? Materials? Long winters? Dirty friends w/loads of sun screen?
Carl, any idea if PPi built the original set?

[Greg Guimond]

As I think about it I'm now wondering if PPI did that cushion. They have a top shelf reputation along with Fineline in Florida. I have never seen anyone complain about there work. Is it possible that Donzi Direct had something drop shipped from PPI that another shop did? Perhaps Donzi Direct was scrambling to fill orders and just used a PPI box to ship it. Just doesn't make sense, that's a hack job unless there was a vendor materials batch "defect". If there was PPI will back it with a new one.

[ralphcrocker]

I think they will cover it. That is terrible. Best of luck.

[Tidbart]

Carl
Did they send you the complete cushion, foam and all, or just a new cover?

Bob

[Carl C]

It was a complete new cushion with new foam, water barrier & upholstery. It sees suntan oil and sunscreen but who's boat doesn't? The same products that did not cause damage to my Hydrostream or ProCraft in the past. Yes, I kneel on the center to open the hatch quite often. This damage is starting more on the starboard side and it will only get worse. I will take the advice given here and contact PPI about it. George, I don't recall who made the original seat. The boat was bought new and is a 2005 model. Strangely, the front seats are holding up well and they get stepped on often when boarding the boat or stepping in off the bow (bare feet only in my boat).

[Ghost]

I doubt suntan lotion or oil is likely the culprit or even a serious contributing factor, but from your statement you'd be surprised how widely that varies from boat to boat.

I have trouble believing PPI won't just take care of it.

[Tidbart]

My 22 interior is17 years old and spent time in Michigan and Florida. It has been stepped on, kneeled on, layed on, and sat on. It has had lotions, sunscreens, and cleaners all over it just like most boats. It is still in excellent shape. Something just isn't right here. I, like most here, am interested in what PPI will say. If anyone will know, they will. I am sure they know their suppliers products and will know where to go for the answers. I am sure they will get to the bottom of it.
Hope this works out well for you.

Bob

[Morgan's Cloud]

This is definitely a bit of a mystery and you sure don't deserve to go through it twice . By any chance do those spots coincide with EXACTLY where your knees would be when kneeling on the seats to open the engine hatch ?

If it was me and there was no way I could figure it out I'd be tempted to get an independent and very highly regarded marine upholstery / canvass specialist to look at if and give their opinion .
If they don't have a dog in the fight they could have / give some interesting input .

[Tidbart]

It was a complete new cushion with new foam, water barrier & upholstery.

The reason I asked about this is I was wondering if there was some interaction between the foam and the vinyl. I guess that could still be the case in that there is still foam in the tuck and roll.

Bob

[Carl C]

This is definitely a bit of a mystery and you sure don't deserve to go through it twice . By any chance do those spots coincide with EXACTLY where your knees would be when kneeling on the seats to open the engine hatch ?


No. The damage is starting in an area off center.

[Greg Guimond]

No. The damage is starting in an area off center.

I'm guessing it was NOT a PPI made cushion. Only Donzi Direct would know for sure the different vendors that they have used over the years. :yes:

[mattyboy]

Sucks you have to go thru this again
Troubleshooting a mystery can be a pita but you must eliminate everything that has not been replaced. The cushion has been replaced would two different cushions show the same issue? Highly unlikely but I guess it could but then the front seat should show the same issue. Some common denominator is causing this eliminate has much as possible your cleaner is it the same bottle as used on the old one? Is the boat uncovered in you garage at times may be something is dripping on the back seat? I would not eliminate lotions I ruined a brand new shirt and fitted hat with sunblock think about why it is the backseat only could it be the way people lounge on the backseat could it be a spot where their heels rest and when they move or get up they dig their heels in? Just some thoughts

[Carl C]

Sucks you have to go thru this again
Troubleshooting a mystery can be a pita but you must eliminate everything that has not been replaced. The cushion has been replaced would two different cushions show the same issue? Highly unlikely but I guess it could but then the front seat should show the same issue. Some common denominator is causing this eliminate has much as possible your cleaner is it the same bottle as used on the old one? Is the boat uncovered in you garage at times may be something is dripping on the back seat? I would not eliminate lotions I ruined a brand new shirt and fitted hat with sunblock think about why it is the backseat only could it be the way people lounge on the backseat could it be a spot where their heels rest and when they move or get up they dig their heels in? Just some thoughts

I don't know, Matty. I really don't. Nothing is dripping on it. After the last seat failed I've not used any magic erasers or any cleaner on them. Just wiped down with warm water. The rear seat backs are also cracking at the top all around. They are the originals. The back seat has not seen anything that the fronts ones haven't. I was kind of upset when I spotted that new damage last week. We often sit on the back seat and rest our feet on the front ones turned around and the front seats are holding up. :confused:

[Greg Guimond]

Put it in a box and send it to Arko in Lake Havasu and have them build you a new one if PPI or DD won't give you a free one. 10 years from now it will still look like new.

[Greg Guimond]

Or if you have more time and can wait until off-season you could send it to Sturgis in Texas ........ http://www.sturgisdesigns.com/

[yeller]

That's crazy Carl. I couldn't believe your old one failed so quickly and now the new one fails in a couple years???
I can't tell for sure by the pics but it looks to be a thin vinyl and the reason it failed prematurely. I'd have to see it in person to know for sure. There are many different grades of vinyls.

It's not going to have failed because of what you use or how it's used, or the fronts would show similar wear.

I would definitely contact PPI directly and give them a chance to make it right.

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Carl ....................maybe i am out of line but ....................would you consider having the seats redone here in Mich by people ( two ) who have done past work for Skater , with one person being Semi retired , and the other being full time ?

[Carl C]

I don't know what I will do yet. I will start the ball rolling with PPI but the seat will wait until this winter. The vinyl is tearing at the seams. The threads are still intact.

[DonziJosh]

To Carl (and all),

I'm sorry about this problem, but in all fairness, this is the first we've heard of it.

Every single piece of DonziDirect upholstery has been produced by PPI. Here's a picture of Carl's aft seat in December of 2011, the day I inspected it at the PPI shop: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=249738691756435&set=a.185148274882144.47908.170683836328588&type=3&theater We inspect each and every single piece prior to shipping.

I'll be happy to look into your issue and see what we can do about correcting it. The first pic I saw was of Carl's original seat, not the replacement seat that we produced. I'll get with the shop and see what they think caused this problem.

In the past three years we've shipped a few hundred pieces of PPI upholstery to customers around the world, and this is only the third potential warranty issue we've ever encountered. One was a customer who wasn't happy with the finishing of the stapled edge on the bottom side of his Classic bucket seat and the other was a shipping damage issue, (and proven as such because we photograph every piece we ship). Both issues were resolved to the customers' satisfaction.

This is obviously not a widespread problem or everyone would know about it because there are lots and lots of Donzi Classics out there with our upholstery in them.

So, Carl, let me go to work on this and we'll be in touch.

(Edited because I could only see the main photo of the old upholstery until I logged in and went back to look.)

[Tidbart]

Josh,

I don't think anyone would put a blame on you, nor necessarily PPI. We are all aware that you sell, the stuff and PPI makes it. We also realize that PPI doesn't create the product, such at the vinyl, etc., that they use in their upholstery. Who knows, it could be a defective product from the manufacturer.

We all hate to Carl have to go through this a second time. And we all are damn curious as to what has occurred. Hopefully, a cause can be pinpointed and this matter resolved amicably.

Bob

PS, Didn't mean to speak for you Carl. Just speaking in general.

[BUIZILLA]

Carl... I have a question...

when you or your passengers embark, or disembark, do they step on the seat cushion bottom and then the gunwale?

thats probably how we ALL do it, just curious

[Holy Smokes]

I'm usually silent on these issues, but I have concern that you felt it necessary to call out two shops (Donzi Direct and PPI) that have not even had the opportunity to investigate and attempt to remedy the issue. In addition, the "shock value" of ripped seams in the photos is not even from the work they completed.

Let's allow these providers with rather excellent resume's handle it from their end before dragging them through the muck.

My $.02

[gcarter]

I'm usually silent on these issues, but I have concern that you felt it necessary to call out two shops (Donzi Direct and PPI) that have not even had the opportunity to investigate and attempt to remedy the issue. In addition, the "shock value" of ripped seams in the photos is not even from the work they completed.

Let's allow these providers with rather excellent resume's handle it from their end before dragging them through the muck.

My $.02

+1 I agree! I hate it when my customers do that to me.

[Tidbart]

I'm usually silent on these issues, but I have concern that you felt it necessary to call out two shops (Donzi Direct and PPI) that have not even had the opportunity to investigate and attempt to remedy the issue. In addition, the "shock value" of ripped seams in the photos is not even from the work they completed.

Let's allow these providers with rather excellent resume's handle it from their end before dragging them through the muck.

My $.02

I tend to disagree. From what I have seen, nobody is "calling out" these two shops as if they have done something sinister or underhanded. DD supplied it and PPI made it. It is a plain fact and mostly obvious. Most know they both are stand-up companies. Nobody knows what has caused this issue, however, we would like to learn.
The original photo was not put there for shock value. It has been posted before and it was explained that something similar is happening again.

I believe now there are a couple more photos of the current issue.

B


PS, Also, this is one of the more interesting threads that this site has seen in ages, so let's keep it going. :biggrin.::yes:

[Tidbart]

Carl,

I am by no means a sewing expert, but it appears as thought the threads are very tight and cutting through the vinyl. I wonder if it is possible to have too much tension on the threads during the sewing as to do this. Like I said, no sewing expert here.

B

[roadtrip se]

I'm usually silent on these issues, but I have concern that you felt it necessary to call out two shops (Donzi Direct and PPI) that have not even had the opportunity to investigate and attempt to remedy the issue. In addition, the "shock value" of ripped seams in the photos is not even from the work they completed.

Let's allow these providers with rather excellent resume's handle it from their end before dragging them through the muck.

My $.02

Yep, better ways to handle this. Like picking up the phone and giving someone a chance to act, before posting it on an enthusiast site. Then you could post on how well the company handled the issues. Reputation is huge in today's world.
I for one don't like surprises, so I can imagine how Josh is reacting, but I know he will react in the appropriate fashion. Always does.

[jvcobra]

I'm usually silent on these issues, but I have concern that you felt it necessary to call out two shops (Donzi Direct and PPI) that have not even had the opportunity to investigate and attempt to remedy the issue. In addition, the "shock value" of ripped seams in the photos is not even from the work they completed.

Let's allow these providers with rather excellent resume's handle it from their end before dragging them through the muck.

My $.02

I agree, dick move.

[Greg Guimond]

Hardly a call out thread against Josh when there are about a dozen people who comment and read this site. Carl got a bum deal twice, not once. As was said several times in the thread PPI has an excellent reputation as does Josh. I'm thinking it was a suppler issue

[VetteLT193]

I wonder if there is something in your garage off gassing? What is in there that could put off any fumes or exhaust of any kind? Heater, water heater, pool stuff, anything?

It was odd the first time and more so this time. One could abuse the boat for a couple years and not have an issue so it's either a horrible coincidence or something in the air

Putting it online is appropriate. Getting others thoughts, opinions, and ideas is a good way to get to the bottom of an issue most times. Some just can't take that concept of being open

[Ghost]

Putting it online is appropriate. Getting others thoughts, opinions, and ideas is a good way to get to the bottom of an issue most times. Some just can't take that concept of being open

i agree it's fine to put online. I think the objection some have (rightly) raised is to do only with placing blame where blame is as yet uncertain. "WTF is going on with my seat this time?" would have been very different from "this upholstery work is unacceptable," no?

Examining the problem, you started doing the same thing I did: looking for potential causes, whatever they might be. Which makes perfect sense. Occam's razor kinda leads in two different directions here. On the one hand, it seems like the upholstery should be fine as no clear cause seems to account for the damage, and thus the seats must be defective. On the other, a rare thing has happened twice to the same particular cushion in the same boat, suggesting some environmental peculiarity or other abuse.

It's interesting. Mrs. White Vinyl in the factory with a needle? Or Colonel Mustard in the cockpit without a shirt? ;)

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Carl,
If I were in your shoes I would be checking the environment where the boat is stored or consider the possibility of some nefarious source of the damage. To me that damage looks like what muriatic acid damage would look like.

[ClassicFanatic]

My original seats are 21 years old and still perfect.

[gcarter]

Carl,
If I were in your shoes I would be checking the environment where the boat is stored or consider the possibility of some nefarious source of the damage. To me that damage looks like what muriatic acid damage would look like.

Bill, I sort of agree, but in this case, Carl said the front buckets are OK.
Also, if it were muriatic (or other) acid, it'd probably affect the stitches and it doesn't seem to have.

[Offset]

Too lazy to read all the way back but I do have question. Was the cushion changed when the new upholstery was installed? If not the is it possible that the foam could be contaminated with something?

[Carl C]

Too lazy to read all the way back but I do have question. Was the cushion changed when the new upholstery was installed? If not the is it possible that the foam could be contaminated with something?

Entire seat bottom was replaced. Boat is always kept in an unheated garage and the seats are never touched during the winter. The back seat sees nothing that the front ones don't and this one has only seen warm water, tanning oil and sunscreen, same as the front seats. The front seats have also seen dish soap and magic erasers and they are OK. No tears or cracks at all in the original front seats. Here is the original thread. The rear seat backs are also cracking in this thread but the upholstery is not ripping apart. http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?69607-Why-Are-My-Seats-Deteriorating&highlight=

I will contact PPI but I doubt that they will offer any help after 2 1/2 seasons of use. Josh is no longer involved in the day to day dealings of Donzi Direct. Josh has always been good to me. I have every right to express how I feel about PPI on this thread and if no help is offered I will never use them again. Donzi Direct sold their product and so it is now a bad reflection on them also. Them's the facts! Like it or not.

edit: This was my first thread dealing with this issue: http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?66469-What-Happened-To-My-Rear-Seat&highlight=

edit 2: I just spoke with a top guy at PPI, don't want to give names now. He was very reassuring that we can resolve this issue. He is concerned about why this has happened twice and doesn't want to get into a position of making seat after seat after seat. It seems that Donzi Josh does still own Donzi Direct but has not been as involved in the day to day dealings there as he is busy with other things too. I was informed that Josh has been made aware of this thread and that he may be contacting me in the near future. That would be great. It sounds like they are concerned about this issue and do want to keep their good reputations. Hopefully we will get to the bottom of it. After pages of speculation on why my original rear seats failed so badly just to see it happening again to my replacement seat is very frustrating. The back seat does not get stepped on. We usually step on a front seat with bare feet. This seat has not been abused and sees less use and pounding than the front seats do. What we have here is a genuine mystery. To go back now and delete everything negative that I said about PPI and DD would be pointless at this time. Who would not be disgusted in my situation? If we can resolve this problem then I will be praising the customer service of PPI and DD. This is more of a PPI issue since they were the manufacturer. I just now took some pics of my interior to post. The front seats are still very nice and take more beating than the rear one does. They do not have PPI tags on them but they were probably made by PPI. We are working on a resolution. Here are pics:

[Ghost]

I would say repeated periods of kneeling on the seats and reaching far into the motorbox is different from anything front seats get. The foam gets fully compressed and stays that way while people move around, with all or nearly all body weight just on the knees, often pushed to one when maneuvering around. A quick step on the front seats to get up or down is much different. Not saying that is at FAULT here, but it's very different from stepping on the front seats enough to get in and out of the cockpit.

With all those wing nuts to loosen and tighten for every launch (priming the strainer), that seems like one way there might be more stress on the bench seat cushion if you spend a couple minutes every trip like that. For contrast, I kneel on the bench to open the hatch and then take a look in, and flip the battery switch here and there, but I bet it's 1/10th to 1/20th the kneeling time and stress it takes to loosen and tighten six or eight wing nuts well down in the bilge each time.

I also see where many righties actually kneel left-of-center to deal with the latch, and/or to lean down in one side or the other of the motor box. Which side is the strainer on, port or starboard? Again, just hunting for things that are different from other boats in this case.

Also thought about different materials (like different foams used for different pieces, based on support (stiffer for seat bases, softer for seat backs, whatever)) but one would think we'd see issues across many boats if that were the case.

[Carl C]

I would say repeated periods of kneeling on the seats and reaching far into the motorbox is different from anything front seats get. The foam gets fully compressed and stays that way while people move around, with all or nearly all body weight just on the knees, often pushed to one when maneuvering around. A quick step on the front seats to get up or down is much different. Not saying that is at FAULT here, but it's very different from stepping on the front seats enough to get in and out of the cockpit.

With all those wing nuts to loosen and tighten for every launch (priming the strainer), that seems like one way there might be more stress on the bench seat cushion if you spend a couple minutes every trip like that. For contrast, I kneel on the bench to open the hatch and then take a look in, and flip the battery switch here and there, but I bet it's 1/10th to 1/20th the kneeling time and stress it takes to loosen and tighten six or eight wing nuts well down in the bilge each time.

I also see where many righties actually kneel left-of-center to deal with the latch, and/or to lean down in one side or the other of the motor box. Which side is the strainer on, port or starboard? Again, just hunting for things that are different from other boats in this case.

Also thought about different materials (like different foams used for different pieces, based on support (stiffer for seat bases, softer for seat backs, whatever)) but one would think we'd see issues across many boats if that were the case.

:confused: The strainer only needs priming the first time out in the spring. Where did you get that from? When I kneel on the back seat it is in the center, This damage is starting on the starboard side. See my last post as I added some important updates.

[Ghost]

:confused: The strainer only needs priming the first time out in the spring. Where did you get that from? When I kneel on the back seat it is in the center, This damage is starting on the starboard side. See my last post as I added some important updates.

Thought you told me you primed it every trip.

[DonziJosh]

Carl,

While it is true that I am no longer involved in the day to day operations at DonziDirect, it doesn’t mean I’ve walked away from the business and it doesn’t mean we’ve turned our backs on you or any of our other customers. Back in December of 2011, we shipped you the upholstered aft seat cushion you ordered. That’s all I knew until I stumbled upon your thread proclaiming “I will never use Donzi Direct or PPI for any future upholstery work” alongside a photo of your boat’s old cushion that I didn’t sell you. This sparked all kinds of speculation, including suggestions that DonziDirect used some unknown shop to expedite orders (even though your cushion came from PPI with a PPI packing slip and a PPI tag sewn into it). There is absolutely no animosity here; I understand your frustration, but man, I wish you’d just reached out to us first!

To address all the interested parties here, and to hopefully bring some closure to this thread:

Upon discovering this thread on Monday I made PPI aware of the issue and forwarded the photos Carl posted to PPI’s president, Lee Wingard for review and response. He of course agreed that the wear shown in the photographs is not normal. While there’s no way to draw a definitive conclusion, and while we’re only looking at close-up shots of the stitching, PPI believes that since this damage is occurring in one particular spot, it appears to be a traffic area and that the most likely cause of damage would be stepping, kneeling, or otherwise causing traffic wear on the cushion. The damaged vinyl beneath the threads looks, in PPI’s opinion, like the result of abrasive action from dirt, sand, or other substances tracked aboard from shoes and feet that got caught under the threads.

Could it be a material defect in the new cushion we sent in 2011? Anything is possible. However, the fact that the customer had this problem before, and now seems to be having it again, would seem to indicate that this is not a material defect, because the original cushion and the replacement were produced many years apart, and also because the accelerated wear is limited to this one area.

Again, I must stress that this is all only speculation from a few photos and not the result of firsthand analysis of the damaged cushion, but these guys are experts, and they are among the very best at what they do. PPI has supplied every single Donzi Classic tuck & roll cushion to the Donzi factory since 1996. DonziDirect has shipped hundreds of PPI tuck & roll cushions to Donzi Classic customers. If this was a widespread problem, we'd know about it.

Whatever is causing this problem seems to be somewhat of a mystery, but it is an isolated one. Regardless, we will stand behind our products. Carl, please call us so that we may begin the process of getting you taken care of. 888.441.1614. Or shoot us an email with a number so we can reach you. info@donzidirect.com.

DonziDirect , together with its supplier partners, will continue to do their very best to stand behind their products. and support the Donzi enthusiast community. Thank you to our customers and friends for their ongoing support.

[Carl C]

Josh, I will be in touch soon. I can assure you now though that this is not a high traffic area and that other damage is starting to occur elsewhere on the seat but the pics show where the tearing has started again. There was nothing abrasive on the seat. I bought this boat new and have taken excellent care of it. The front seats are where bare feet step to board or exit the boat or to enter from the bow. The back seat gets lounged on during breaks. The front seats get much more use and have almost no damage after 9 years. Very frustrating after all of the earlier conjecture as to the cause. I never indicated that you used a supplier other than PPI. Did I express dissatisfaction with my new seat on the same day that I noticed the tears? Yes. I honestly did not think that I had any remedy after 2 1/2 boating seasons. If we can resolve this than I will be eating crow for a long time and will also be posting praise of DonziDirect and PPI. Thank you for posting here. Carl.

[gcarter]

Interesting response Josh.
I would suppose that if Carl receives another new cushion (no matter the circumstances) and promises to lay a towel across the suspected area during times of ingress and egress, in addition to working on the engine. In other words, any time other than just sitting on it, it'd provide good evidence of either poor material, or excessive wear and abrasion.

[Offset]

Carl is there any chance of anything under the upholstery in a storage area that could be off gassing? An old flash light battery leaking, bottle of cleaner maybe something that you use on a daily basis to maintain your boat. Rags soaked in cleaning fluid, I don't just grasping for some answers for you.

Just a couple of thoughts. Maybe nothing like that is happening but worth a look.

Good luck with this Carl. It sounds like Josh is willing to work with you to find a resolution.

[Holy Smokes]

... Did I express dissatisfaction with my new seat on the same day that I noticed the tears? Yes. I honestly did not think that I had any remedy after 2 1/2 boating seasons. Carl.

Uhhh, how about pick up the phone to call and explain your situation.


It seems people nowadays seek the internet to blast good businesses to express their perceived entitlement.

Sorry to stir the pot, but this just doesn't sit well with me. Best of luck to reaching a resolution and what likely can only consist of a new seat. I applaud DD and PPI for stepping up in good faith, when they really don't need to. When this is done, the entire thread should be deleted.

Travis

EDIT - removed comment made in mistake.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

C'mon... uhh, ya you did. Before your initial post was edited, you questioned that it was possible that DD used an alternate supplier and could have re-used a box with PPI logos on it. Josh obviously read your initial pre-edited post too.



Uhhh, how about pick up the phone to call and explain your situation.


It seems people nowadays seek the internet to blast good businesses to express their perceived entitlement.

Sorry to stir the pot, but this just doesn't sit well with me. Best of luck to reaching a resolution and what likely can only consist of a new seat. I applaud DD and PPI for stepping up in good faith, when they really don't need to. When this is done, the entire thread should be deleted.

Travis

Travis, you had the guts to say what I was thinking but was afraid to express. I especially think Josh is both professional and took the high road here when many others in the same situation would not.
Denying what was posted and then changing stories is bad karma.

[Scott Pearson]

Just wanted to chime in here and give my 2 cents. I address paint issues on a regular basis in my job and 99.9% of the time when we see a failure it’s due to poor prep or some sort of contamination. When we see these failures it’s in an isolated area. The only time it’s an entire failure is when it was mixed improperly, not applied correctly or even on a rare instance bad product. But like I said that would be an entire failure.

My point that I’m trying to make is paint doesn’t have a brain. It’s not going to fail is one spot and decide not to fail in others. If it was bad paint the entire job would fail. Just like if the vinyl, stitching or foam used in the seats were bad the entire job would be failing not an isolated area. If it’s just an isolated area like in this interior issue I would say that there is an underlying reason causing it. It’s not a material or workmanship failure at all.

[Carl C]

C'mon... uhh, ya you did. Before your initial post was edited, you questioned that it was possible that DD used an alternate supplier and could have re-used a box with PPI logos on it. Josh obviously read your initial pre-edited post too.



Uhhh, how about pick up the phone to call and explain your situation.


It seems people nowadays seek the internet to blast good businesses to express their perceived entitlement.

Sorry to stir the pot, but this just doesn't sit well with me. Best of luck to reaching a resolution and what likely can only consist of a new seat. I applaud DD and PPI for stepping up in good faith, when they really don't need to. When this is done, the entire thread should be deleted.

Travis

That is a blatant lie that never happened. Had the initial post been edited then it would say edited at the bottom of the post.

Moderators, please verify that the initial post was not changed and that no posts of mine were changed. Thank you.

Holy Smokes, why are you posting here just to lie and stir the pot and start trouble? Knock it off. My posts were not changed. You owe me and this forum an apology.

It is very early here in Michigan and I will try to contact Josh today after doing some chores. I do realize that the seat is way out of any warranty period but if something can be done then it would surely be appreciated.

Please ignore the post from Holy Smokes as it is not true. If anyone here can contact a moderator then you can verify this as a lie. I do not know what his motive is in posting that nonsense but I sure do not appreciate it.

The cushion was clearly made by PPI and has a PPI tag on the bottom.

edit (I will say when I edit a post except to fix grammar or spelling) Josh, I was out of town for a couple of days and missed your post on #24 I believe. I would appreciate it if you would verify that my initial post was not changed. Nor was any other post of mine changed. I'm being called a liar by a member here who has only posted 28 times in six years.

[Carl C]

I know that Lenny moderated some posts here not long ago. I will try to contact him on the other Donzi forum to verify that my posts were not changed. HS, what the hell is your motive for causing me all of this trouble?

[Ed Donnelly]

As I think about it I'm now wondering if PPI did that cushion. They have a top shelf reputation along with Fineline in Florida. I have never seen anyone complain about there work. Is it possible that Donzi Direct had something drop shipped from PPI that another shop did? Perhaps Donzi Direct was scrambling to fill orders and just used a PPI box to ship it. Just doesn't make sense, that's a hack job unless there was a vendor materials batch "defect". If there was PPI will back it with a new one.

Does not look like Carls QUOTE TO ME.....

I don't have buckets, only the bench, and after 29 yrs I have one small tear by the thread on the drivers side Mr Vynl touched it up and it is as good as new
Carl you are in good hands now. Chill and let them work on it.
Just think how much gas you are saving.
I have been in Carls Garage and there is nothing I saw that would cause that
Kind of damage.

[Carl C]

Does not look like Carls QUOTE TO ME.....

I don't have buckets, only the bench, and after 29 yrs I have one small tear by the thread on the drivers side Mr Vynl touched it up and it is as good as new
Carl you are in good hands now. Chill and let them work on it.
Just think how much gas you are saving.
I have been in Carls Garage and there is nothing I saw that would cause that
Kind of damage.

Thank you Ed. You are a good friend. I never saw that post. Here are the packing slips and the cushion has a PPI label on it. I don't care if my addy is visible. There was never any doubt who made this cushion. Holy Smokes, I'm waiting for that apology to me and this board but I think it will be a long wait.

Josh, I think that might be the post you saw.

8018980190

[Greg Guimond]

C'mon... uhh, ya you did. Before your initial post was edited, you questioned that it was possible that DD used an alternate supplier and could have re-used a box with PPI logos on it. Josh obviously read your initial pre-edited post too.

I'm not sure where you got this Holy Smokes. What you refer to above were my words (which you posted completely out of context btw) and were never written by Carl whatsoever. :confused:

[Carl C]

Just wanted to chime in here and give my 2 cents. I address paint issues on a regular basis in my job and 99.9% of the time when we see a failure it’s due to poor prep or some sort of contamination. When we see these failures it’s in an isolated area. The only time it’s an entire failure is when it was mixed improperly, not applied correctly or even on a rare instance bad product. But like I said that would be an entire failure.

My point that I’m trying to make is paint doesn’t have a brain. It’s not going to fail is one spot and decide not to fail in others. If it was bad paint the entire job would fail. Just like if the vinyl, stitching or foam used in the seats were bad the entire job would be failing not an isolated area. If it’s just an isolated area like in this interior issue I would say that there is an underlying reason causing it. It’s not a material or workmanship failure at all.

Scott, this is what my original seat looked like after 6 seasons. Total failure. What is happening now appears to be the early stages of the same thing happening again. http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?66469-What-Happened-To-My-Rear-Seat&p=615282#post615282

Edit: PM sent to Lenny at .org

Edit 2: I guess it no longer says "last edited on ....." at the bottom of the page. The "report post" icon is also gone. I hate being called a liar.

[mike o]

(1) You post a pic of the old seat which is completely deceitful when you started this thread

(2) Then, you slam 2 company's, PPI + Josh saying you would never do business with them again, TWICE.

(3) Now, you want a dialog with your "Issue" after how many days ? And, turn this site upside down

(4) As a manufacture, and Rep for my company for 38 yrs. Your method sucks

(5)" Word " to PPI and Josh for even dealing with your "type"

(6) :pizza:

[Scott Pearson]

Carl,
I’m not disputing your pictures. All that I’msaying is that something else is going on to make this happen. If that wasn’t thecase the front seat bottoms would be doing the same thing as would the rest ofthe interior seats.

[Ghost]

Carl, this may sound like an affront but it is only intended an honest question asked with a reason, to try to promote tempered civility on the board. Do you understand a lie to be something a person knows is untrue but says is true anyway? Whereas, when a person believes something is true and says it, but it actually isn't true, that's a mistake but not a lie?

I ask as I don't see any firm evidence that HS did anything but make a mistake (if he even did that). It simply looks like he may have confused Greg G's statements with yours.

Now, for comparison, right off the bat you, in an outraged tone, blamed PPI and DD for delivering shoddy work when it is not known (not even yet) that they did any such thing. And a good deal of evidence suggests they did not do it, just as much as any evidence they did. You called HS a liar rather than saying he was incorrect about something (if he was even wrong, I don't claim to know but it appears likely that you can't know either). You also said posts could not be edited without a note below them appearing from the system, as proof HS is a liar. Are these lies, or mistakes on your part? By your standard for HS they are lies. Will you thus call yourself out as a serial liar, or alternatively, apologize to HS for calling him one? Seems like it should be one or the other, FWIW.

And again, I say this with friendly intent, because the distinction between being wrong and lying is important to understand or civility doesn't stand a chance in a place like this.

[Carl C]

Carl,
I’m not disputing your pictures. All that I’msaying is that something else is going on to make this happen. If that wasn’t thecase the front seat bottoms would be doing the same thing as would the rest ofthe interior seats.

Exactly, Scott. That is what we will try to get to the bottom of. There was a long discussion about the original failure on two threads and we (I and this board) finally chalked it up to someone using a harmful product on the rear seat without my knowledge. This replacement back seat cushion has been babied. To answer a previous question: No, there is nothing in the underseat compartment except the stern light. It's a bi*tch to get into that compartment so I don't use it. Now that we have sunlight I just snapped this pic of the two original front seat bottoms. They get stepped on often. They used to get cleaned with magic erasers and dish soap. They have seen many applications of vinyl conditioner (not 303). They have seen the same sun tan oils and sunscreen that the rear seat has. Yet they are still in excellent condition. I just don't know what is going on. If Josh is out west then it is still too early to call so I will mow the yard first! Stay tuned. (I think Mike's mad at me because he and a couple other's were the first recipients of negative rep from me! :))

[Carl C]

Carl, this may sound like an affront but it is only intended an honest question asked with a reason, to try to promote tempered civility on the board. Do you understand a lie to be something a person knows is untrue but says is true anyway? Whereas, when a person believes something is true and says it, but it actually isn't true, that's a mistake but not a lie?

I ask as I don't see any firm evidence that HS did anything but make a mistake (if he even did that). It simply looks like he may have confused Greg G's statements with yours.

Now, for comparison, right off the bat you, in an outraged tone, blamed PPI and DD for delivering shoddy work when it is not known (not even yet) that they did any such thing. And a good deal of evidence suggests they did not do it, just as much as any evidence they did. You called HS a liar rather than saying he was incorrect about something (if he was even wrong, I don't claim to know but it appears likely that you can't know either). You also said posts could not be edited without a note below them appearing from the system, as proof HS is a liar. Are these lies, or mistakes on your part? By your standard for HS they are lies. Will you thus call yourself out as a serial liar, or alternatively, apologize to HS for calling him one? Seems like it should be one or the other, FWIW.

And again, I say this with friendly intent, because the distinction between being wrong and lying is important to understand or civility doesn't stand a chance in a place like this.

If it was a mistake then he should come back on here and apologize because his "mistake" caused other's to attack me. He has 28 posts in 6 years and saw a need to call me a liar. You'd better get your facts straight before doing that. I expressed my true feelings of disgust after seeing the tears starting in my new seat. Now let's please not start with another one of your epic debates unless you can offer some constructive info on what might be going on with my seat. Thank you.

[Holy Smokes]

Carl - My apologies for stirring up the pot on this issue. I have no skin in this issue other than seeing good companies un-necessarily being called to the carpet on a public forum. True, I am not a heavy poster (on any forums for that matter) but rather use the boards for entertainment and to learn more about my passion for boating.

When I first read this thread I "recall" there was mention of perhaps DD could have used an alternate supplier. I did not dream this up. If I made a "mistake" in that recollection I do sincerely apologize. However, it seems others seem to share the same recollection.

FWIW - I have done business with PPI and had a very successful experience. It bothers me to see good companies brought down for things which they are unable to control or given attempt to remedy.

Remember - public forums are all about opinions; this is mine.


EDIT - I re-read page 4. Carl I do owe you an apology. I read the thread too quick and mixed your posts with Greg G.'s. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I made a mistake and willing to step up and call myself out! I will EDIT my prior post to remove any confusion on that topic.

[seano]

If it was a mistake then he should come back on here and apologize because his "mistake" caused other's to attack me. He has 28 posts in 6 years and saw a need to call me a liar. You'd better get your facts straight before doing that. I expressed my true feelings of disgust after seeing the tears starting in my new seat. Now let's please not start with another one of your epic debates unless you can offer some constructive info on what might be going on with my seat. Thank you.

I normally don't get involved in these types of things and i am sure that i am going to regret it, but this just doesn't seem like a fair fight - and i blame the internet. All too often people take to the proverbial pen to threaten a business to get what they want whether they deserve it or not.

Carl - While in your previous posts you admit the seat is 2 1/2 years old and you are now see a problem with it, you did not give DD or PPI any opportunity to rectify or respond before you started bashing them here in a very public way. I would truly be disappointed too and if I thought there was any shot at getting it resolved, my first course of action would have been to call Josh and see what could be done.

And now you just called it a NEW seat which is being misleading - it is 2 1/2 years old.

Lastly, I am no expert on upholstery and a lot of theories have been suggested, but the truth is that the seat is 2 1/2 years old and there is no telling what has been done to it since it left PPI's shop - how long should they warranty their work against normal or excessive wear and tear?

[Ghost]

If it was a mistake then he should come back on here and apologize because his "mistake" caused other's to attack me. He has 28 posts in 6 years and saw a need to call me a liar. You'd better get your facts straight before doing that. I expressed my true feelings of disgust after seeing the tears starting in my new seat. Now let's please not start with another one of your epic debates unless you can offer some constructive info on what might be going on with my seat. Thank you.

EXACTLY what facts don't I have straight? My whole post was to straighten out that which is known versus not known, and the difference in calling someone a 'liar' when they have said something they know to be false (an actual lie) versus when they have said something that they believe to be true but is not (a mistake).

As for a mistake causing others to attack you, the WHOLE THREAD is a set of responses to you claiming that DD and PPI did shoddy work, which REMAINS unproved. Everyone one in the pool is here because you made a claim which STILL isn't known to be true, in an accusing manner that was unfair to DD and PPI. The whole thread is a function of you not having YOUR facts straight, nor being civil and fair in addressing a MYSTERY.

I don't have a dog in the fight about your cushion's issue. I DO have an interest in the mystery. And I'm trying to lift out of the sewer parts of the discussion that are in the sewer. What's amazing is how civil and sensible so many people have actually been.

I repeat, please go back to my prior post where you claim I had "better get my facts straight" and quote it, listing the facts that I don't have straight.


EDIT: here, I'll make it easy. I'll put the quote up for you so you don't even have to go back to the prior page.


Carl, this may sound like an affront but it is only intended an honest question asked with a reason, to try to promote tempered civility on the board. Do you understand a lie to be something a person knows is untrue but says is true anyway? Whereas, when a person believes something is true and says it, but it actually isn't true, that's a mistake but not a lie?

I ask as I don't see any firm evidence that HS did anything but make a mistake (if he even did that). It simply looks like he may have confused Greg G's statements with yours.

Now, for comparison, right off the bat you, in an outraged tone, blamed PPI and DD for delivering shoddy work when it is not known (not even yet) that they did any such thing. And a good deal of evidence suggests they did not do it, just as much as any evidence they did. You called HS a liar rather than saying he was incorrect about something (if he was even wrong, I don't claim to know but it appears likely that you can't know either). You also said posts could not be edited without a note below them appearing from the system, as proof HS is a liar. Are these lies, or mistakes on your part? By your standard for HS they are lies. Will you thus call yourself out as a serial liar, or alternatively, apologize to HS for calling him one? Seems like it should be one or the other, FWIW.

And again, I say this with friendly intent, because the distinction between being wrong and lying is important to understand or civility doesn't stand a chance in a place like this.

[Carl C]

Carl - My apologies for stirring up the pot on this issue. I have no skin in this issue other than seeing good companies un-necessarily being called to the carpet on a public forum. True, I am not a heavy poster (on any forums for that matter) but rather use the boards for entertainment and to learn more about my passion for boating.

When I first read this thread I "recall" there was mention of perhaps DD could have used an alternate supplier. I did not dream this up. If I made a "mistake" in that recollection I do sincerely apologize. However, it seems others seem to share the same recollection.

FWIW - I have done business with PPI and had a very successful experience. It bothers me to see good companies brought down for things which they are unable to control or given attempt to remedy.

Remember - public forums are all about opinions; this is mine.


EDIT - I re-read page 4. Carl I do owe you an apology. I read the thread too quick and mixed your posts with Greg G.'s. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I made a mistake and willing to step up and call myself out! I will EDIT my prior post to remove any confusion on that topic.

Thank you for that. We all make mistakes. Apology accepted. :)


I normally don't get involved in these types of things and i am sure that i am going to regret it, but this just doesn't seem like a fair fight - and i blame the internet. All too often people take to the proverbial pen to threaten a business to get what they want whether they deserve it or not.

Carl - While in your previous posts you admit the seat is 2 1/2 years old and you are now see a problem with it, you did not give DD or PPI any opportunity to rectify or respond before you started bashing them here in a very public way. I would truly be disappointed too and if I thought there was any shot at getting it resolved, my first course of action would have been to call Josh and see what could be done.

And now you just called it a NEW seat which is being misleading - it is 2 1/2 years old.

Lastly, I am no expert on upholstery and a lot of theories have been suggested, but the truth is that the seat is 2 1/2 years old and there is no telling what has been done to it since it left PPI's shop - how long should they warranty their work against normal or excessive wear and tear?

I never said that PPI should warranty my seat. I expressed my disgust because now I would be looking at buying yet another rear seat very soon. What I said was how I felt. That my next rear seat would come from another source. The seat is well out of warranty. If they do anything to help me then they are going well above and beyond the customer service that I have come to expect in this industry (with few exceptions). I don't feel that I was too harsh in expressing my disgust in my replacement (not new anymore :)) seat starting to fail so soon. I never thought to contact DonziDirect or PPI as it has been 2 1/2 years. Now Josh has contacted me and is showing interest in at least getting to the bottom of this. I didn't expect that. I hope to talk to Josh soon. The yard work is done. I will not air out everything that is discussed between us and if no help is offered on a 2 1/2 year old seat then I understand and do not blame them. I would just have to try another upholsterer and see if it holds up longer. I don't feel that I threw anyone under the bus here. Maybe it's time for us all to take some chill pills and see how this plays out. My main concern is solving the mystery of my rear seat failures while the rest of the interior is holding up well. We've discussed that to death on the other threads. Now I will see what Josh and Lee can come up with as a possible cause. Again, if they do not offer a replacement seat I understand. That was never what I was seeking. I didn't even think that Josh was still with DonziDirect. So...here...pass these around :chillpill::chillpill::chillpill::chillpill::chill pill::chillpill::chillpill: :)

[Ghost]

I don't feel that I threw anyone under the bus here. Umm, the thread is called "This Donzi Upholstery Work is Unacceptable!" [exclamatory emphasis NOT added] and your first post IS the callout of DD and PPI. You say, RIGHT AT THE START, that their work is unacceptable.

Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, what's "throwing someone under the bus" actually look like?


Maybe it's time for us all to take some chill pills and see how this plays out. Actually, the time to take a chill pill was before you hit the button on your first post. And it was the time for YOU to chill out. Everyone else here has been responding to a mess you made, in one form or another.

I REPEAT: you told me I had "better get my facts straight" in response to my post that's been quoted above. If you are so interested in fairness and apologies where they are due, how about explaining EXACTLY WHAT FACTS I DON'T HAVE STRAIGHT in that post?

[Holy Smokes]

Ahhhhhh...... I'm feeling better already!

Weekend is almost here. Time to go boating!

[Carl C]

Ahhhhhh...... I'm feeling better already!

Weekend is almost here. Time to go boating!

I hear ya! I keep thinking I'm on OSO! :)

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Umm, the thread is called "This Donzi Upholstery Work is Unacceptable!" [exclamatory emphasis NOT added] and your first post IS the callout of DD and PPI. You say, RIGHT AT THE START, that their work is unacceptable.

Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, what's "throwing someone under the bus" actually look like?

Actually, the time to take a chill pill was before you hit the button on your first post. And it was the time for YOU to chill out. Everyone else here has been responding to a mess you made, in one form or another.

I REPEAT: you told me I had "better get my facts straight" in response to my post that's been quoted above. If you are so interested in fairness and apologies where they are due, how about explaining EXACTLY WHAT FACTS I DON'T HAVE STRAIGHT in that post?

+1
Onwards before this slippery saga saps any more thought.

[Ghost]

I don't feel that I was too harsh in expressing my disgust in my replacement (not new anymore :)) seat starting to fail so soon.

This is VERY telling, BTW, in understanding a broken thought. You don't think you were "too harsh?" Too harsh toward whom? Whether something is too harsh depends on whether it is deserved.

It's one thing to be furiously frustrated with the universe because yet another seat is falling apart. Anyone can relate to that frustration. And I have trouble imagining anyone telling you that you shouldn't be incredibly frustrated, even if it's your own fault that another seat is falling apart.

The problem is that your statement above is implicitly dishonest (whether because you intended it, or whether you made a mistake). The problem is that statement WRONGLY IMPLIES that your "harsh" statement wasn't directed at the unknown forces that vexed you with yet another mysterious seat problem. Rather, your "harsh" statement was saying, in an outraged tone, that DD and PPI had delivered shoddy work to you.

You decided to convict DD and PPI of a crime where there's ALL SORTS OF DOUBT as to the cause. This is the difference between getting mad and shaking one's fist in the air or punching a bystander. One is just a tantrum, the other is sociopathy.

From your lack of responses above, I gather you have no evidence of any actual "facts" that I didn't "get straight" in my quoted post. Not much of a surprise. Next act.

[Carl C]

Ghost, please take your chill pill. Of your eleven posts on this thread only two are remotely helpful. What I said was that someone had better get their facts straight before calling someone else a liar. Maybe I worded it wrong but I'm pretty sure that most understood me. That other person and I have already put the misunderstanding behind us.

I am awaiting a call back from Josh.

Thank you to others whom I have seen viewing this thread for not jumping into this mess. Thank you to all who have expressed honest feelings either positive or negative in a civil manner.

Time to move along. There is nothing to see here. :lookaroun:

Ghost, stop, please. . . . . . . :nilly:

[Ghost]

Ghost, please take your chill pill. Of your eleven posts on this thread only two are remotely helpful. What I said was that someone had better get their facts straight before calling someone else a liar. Maybe I worded it wrong but I'm pretty sure that most understood me. That other person and I have already put the misunderstanding behind us.

I am awaiting a call back from Josh.

Thank you to others whom I have seen viewing this thread for not jumping into this mess. Thank you to all who have expressed honest feelings either positive or negative in a civil manner.

Time to move along. There is nothing to see here.

Anyone can read the posts and see how uncivil and un-chilled you have been, right from the start, blaming if not the innocent then certainly the un-convicted for your cushions.

If your point (read closely, the wording is actually ambiguous) was not that I had better get my facts straight but that HS had better get HIS facts straight before calling you a liar, that only makes my point even more. You called him a liar when he simply made a mistake. Just as you called out DD and PPI for delivering shoddy work to you when there is no proof of anything of the sort. The evidence points partly to the seat maker and partly to you. An objective read of the evidence is very clear on that.

You made numerous unfounded accusations and demanded apologies with outraged indignation over how you've been wronged, but you don't share any of that outrage about your own misbehavior.

I have tried here to help you think sensibly about the mystery of the cushion and root causes, about being civil, about not accusing people without evidence, about the difference between lying and making a mistake and about the right way to deal with the vendors in your specific case. All to no avail it seems. I suppose I am a bit of a fool for trying, I do admit that.

Bill, you are right as usual. Time for me to move on.

[gold-n-rod]

My Donzi has been gone for 5 years this summer. I sometimes lurk here, just to see what's up. Some things never change.....

Carl: You just can't catch a break. I've known you since you bought your boat and we even met face-to-face at White Lake one summer at a meet up.

You are one of the most impassioned boaters/owners I know. Your boat ownership experiences, between the hull recall, the rear-end accident, the threatening note on your windshield, the complicated engine swap and now this seat problem, have provided you with much aggravation and us much entertainment, enlightenment and new-found knowledge to last a lifetime.

Each time some **** hits your fan, you come out better and with a thicker skin. Stay the course. Some might not like your methods, but they sure can't question your passion or your loyalty to the brand! :yes:

[Carl C]

My Donzi has been gone for 5 years this summer. I sometimes lurk here, just to see what's up. Some things never change.....

Carl: You just can't catch a break. I've known you since you bought your boat and we even met face-to-face at White Lake one summer at a meet up.

You are one of the most impassioned boaters/owners I know. Your boat ownership experiences, between the hull recall, the rear-end accident, the threatening note on your windshield, the complicated engine swap and now this seat problem, have provided you with much aggravation and us much entertainment, enlightenment and new-found knowledge to last a lifetime.

Each time some **** hits your fan, you come out better and with a thicker skin. Stay the course. Some might not like your methods, but they sure can't question your passion or your loyalty to the brand! :yes:

Good to hear from you Randy. I hope you are well. I will never forget our gathering on White Lake where I met you and Todd & the other Randy and Trueser and Dr. Dan and whoever I'm forgetting now. I remember venturing onto Lake Michigan twice in true 6 footers. Trueser drove in with his bigger Donzi but I think that Todd and I were the only ones who planed out briefly in the 6 footers. Yikes!

This was my first internet forum and I cut my teeth here. Scot helped me out a lot in the early times when I screwed the pooch. A very good man, Scot was.

Yes, I've gained some forum skills since then but I also don't take any sh*t anymore either! Take care buddy. Thanks for posting.

[Carl C]

I just spoke with Josh Stickles. He was with Donzi when my boat was built. He remembered that it was ordered by Pier 57 with the custom yellow fairing. I thought that was pretty cool! He's a very nice man and the new owners of Donzi should never have let him get away. We resolved my issue. I will take George's advice about using towels to cover the seat when swimming or when kneeling on the seat. This is customer service that I did not expect. Definitely above and beyond the call of duty to keep a customer and Donzi owner happy. I cannot take back anything that I said but as I previously pointed out I was expressing frustration with being faced with needing yet another replacement rear seat bottom. I did not call DD or PPI because it had been over two years and was way out of warranty. That's about all I can say. I think the moderators should now delete this thread if there are any active moderators present! Ghost, please don't get in the last word unless it is cordial. Thanks to everyone here.

[Ghost]

80200

[gold-n-rod]

I've seen plywood boards, approx 2'x2' with carpet carefully glued. They distribute the pressure from feet when boarding on seat bottoms.

You might want to make yourself one just for the purpose of using when you kneel or step on the seat bottom. Should be cheap to fab up.

Nice to read a happy ending. Keep on boating, Carl.

[Lenny]

Let's have a time out...

It's summer, short where I come from, as well as Jersey and 'york. too

Let's have a bit of fun when the sun is still shining, the weather warm and if need be, we open this up again soon.

I'm going to Chatt with some great people on Wednesday and running with the big dogs...

Thanx