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View Full Version : Bench Seat Hornet Values??? Thoughts?



Scott Pearson
07-10-2014, 06:14 PM
Just wondering what everyone's thoughts are on the value of these and what the market would bring. Now that Pzazz is on the market it makes me wonder. So I'm told that the asking price is $30,000+ on this particular boat and this could be interesting to see what it will actually will sell for. I looked over the boat thoroughly and have my own thoughts of whats it worth.

So if Pzazz goes for anywhere near the owners asking price then what is "The Sting" worth? Or Matty's Hornet? Or Bert's when its finished? Or "the Ultimate" Or "The Grinch"...just to name a few.

I know Bench Seats are a bit rare and sought after. However take the 73 2+3 Donzi in Maryland. I looked at this boat last year for a person who was not in the area and I have to say that its super clean, Solid and an original boat. Everything is original right down to the spark plug wires! At the time he would have taken around $12,000 for the boat. At the time I thought it was worth $9,000 all day long and he was offered that from the person I looked at it for and didn't accept. He is now at $9,800 a year later and it still hasn't sold. So whats it worth?

How about Wa-Lo? This is the first V-Drive 2+3 Hornet Built. Has a over $35,000 in the engine and drive train. Gel coat is amazing, interior, hardware, windshield etc are near perfect. And it has a custom trailer. So whats it worth? I would bet the entire package wouldn't get half of the price that is in the motor and drive train alone.

I have about $28,000 invested in my bench seat "The Ultimate" and those of you who know the boat its no where near being finished. It still needs Paint, Hardware re-chromed, Complete engine and drive line, Fuel tank etc...etc...etc. So I feel I will have another $30,000+ in the boat and that's not counting getting a trailer made...That's another $5,000-$6,000. So when its all finished I will have $62,000- $65,000 into this boat. And it will be an over the top V-drive Bench Seat Hornet! I would bet that I wouldn't be able to get $30,000 once its finished.

I think most of us understand what it takes to really make one of these old classics nice. And I don't mean a quick paint job and interior. Not that there is anything wrong with that. I mean that when you really...really tear them down to nothing and build them back up. The ones that do this know they will never get what they have into it back out.

So...If Pzazz goes for $30,000 then what is "The Sting" worth...$80,000? I'm just looking at it in perspective. Yes, I do understand that someone might buy a boat and just use it the way it is. But an original boat from 1968 is going to need money and time put into it at some point. And depending on how its used it could be sooner then later. Thoughts?

Scott Pearson
07-10-2014, 06:21 PM
A Few More Pictures.

mattyboy
07-11-2014, 07:47 AM
yes Scott
I'm sure everyone that owns one is very interested in what it's true value will be.

I purchased a some what very original one and the only reason I did is because it was very solid structurally and the fuel system had been addressed. It had none of the typical issues these boats have.

when looking at a 45 yr old I don't care if it was sealed in a vacuum since it rolled off the factory floor as soon as it is fueled up it is going to have fuel system issues with today's fuels. So originality is a doubled edged sword it may be near mint but will still have to be split and have the fuels system upgraded and to beef up the areas that will fail over time like the sagging seats. So this is not a spend 30k and enjoy for the next 40 yrs with a wax and a buff every now and then.

I think the person who knows that is looking for a lower entry point.

the motor may have some value but it has not really been holy grail as it once was thought.

I don't know anymore they don't seem as rare as they were they have popped up all over the globe lately and I would think that close to 20 of the original 50 or so are accounted for .

I love mine but if someone showed up in my driveway with 20k in cash I would hook it up for them. Pzazz is going to need another 4-5k on top of the purchase price for a trailer

Just Say N20
07-11-2014, 07:55 AM
Ask Parnell. Or Buizilla who just listed his outboard. Anyone who looks at any three boats should buy any one immediately because from the standpoint of what has been done to them, they are the bargain of the century. But they aren't snapped up.

Those of us who have done a complete restoration as you say, did so because we wanted the boat done right. In the current market, you can not hope to get your money back, so that shouldn't be a consideration. Maybe someday these boats will become sought after like rare woodies or classic cars. But they are worth what someone is willing to pay.

Unfortunately many people assign a value to their boat based on what they think it's worth based on perhaps what they have into it, or it's originality, or for some emotional reason, or some combination of reasons. But in the end it's worth what someone will pay, which takes into consideration what else people could get for the same money in a non-Donzi boat.

Our boats bring in much more than most other old glass boats, which is good. But the costs to bring one back are so high, you will never recover it. We do it because we want to.

Greg Guimond
07-11-2014, 07:58 AM
A lot of value with these types of things is determined by timing. You have to get the right person at the right time to unleash the extra emotional dollars. And getting both is always tough IMO.

Greg Guimond
07-11-2014, 08:01 AM
Those of us who have done a complete restoration as you say, did so because we wanted the boat done right. In the current market, you can not hope to get your money back, so that shouldn't be a consideration.

With a boat, I don't think a top quality restoration ever breaks even in any market. :frown:

Marlin275
07-11-2014, 09:10 AM
My father built a 37ft trimaran in 1963 and from what I have seen the boating market never goes up in value.
Sure there are a few exceptions but as an industry it does not happen.
A new boat depreciates from the day it is sold.
The elements, wear and tear all play their part.

olredalert
07-11-2014, 09:12 AM
----Scott,,,Does the benchseat in question have a balsa cored hull??? If so, what is its condition?.......Bill S

mattyboy
07-11-2014, 09:39 AM
I think the values of the benchseat are 75%-100% higher than a more common classic in like like condition. a skisporter in the same shape as Bert's project would be less than 2k.

Judging by that this boat would need to be in the mint condition Jay's 16 was with a new trailer new tank and all, near perfect gel/paint , interior and hardware.

jl1962
07-11-2014, 10:42 AM
In a soft market like we're in, the weakest seller drives the market. Most recent sellers have some urgency and buyers have been conditioned to wait and wait and wait until the boat can be pried loose. While I agree w/ Marlin that owning and operating boats is not a very good for profit business model, at some point the psychology will change. Buyers will begin to feel some urgency and the nicer and/or more desirable models will begin to trade higher. I think there are some excellent values in the current used Donzi market and the orange Hornet in MD, Parnell's GT, Jim's O/B, Marshall's 22 are just a few examples.

I saw Pzazz on Wednesday when I was up on the lake and I have to say it was a lot nicer than I expected. It is not perfect, but it is no way a project boat. It is also nowhere near as nice as the Sting which should surprise no one. Actually Matty, it reminded me a lot of my old 16. It is an honest 46 year old, one owner, fresh water, well known, well documented, never abused, never molested, largely original classic Donzi. And like w/ my 16, it only takes one buyer. There is no urgency on the seller's side and until/unless that buyer steps up, we will likely be left w/ a large bid/ask spread.

Selfishly, I hope the boat goes to an appreciative owner who will keep the boat on LG so that I can see it, hear it and run with it for years to come. I've seen enough market cycles to know that while good times don't last forever, bad times don't either!
;)

80119

Scott Pearson
07-11-2014, 10:42 AM
Yes I have to agree that there are some amazing boats out there like Parnell's and of the sort for very fair prices. Look what your getting for the price of Parnell's...You could not build that boat for twice that.

I know most of us do it for the love of the Classics but its still needs to be a reasonable price. If you buy a boat for 30K that still needs 25-30K to really make do a proper restoration that seems a bit crazy. But like Greg said...You need the right person.

With that said it will depend on what type of boat it is. Its going to be alot harder to find someone who wants a V-Drive compared to a Stern Drive. I have 3 V-drive boats...I love them but its not an easy boat to maneuver around and you need to be extra careful in the shallow areas. It would be a sin if someone bought Pzazz and altered the boat for a Stern Drive.

All of these Hornets have some sort of coring or stringer/transom issues. If someone says theirs is all original and has no issues I would beg to differ. Remember these were never sealed up from the factory...Donzi just drilled holes and called it a day. They all have issues around the windsheild area. Remember that the coring was never saturated with resin. So it wicks water like a spong.(see the picture I attached of how far the water traveled from the windsheild bolt holes) All the BB Ford Hornets in the 60's that I have seen have had the stringers notched for some reason and never sealed off. Transoms are usually soft around the tiller arm on the V-drives. So if the water soaked in that area it made its way down to the lower rudder housing bolts.

mattyboy
07-11-2014, 01:37 PM
Jay
You can't compare it to your boat in all fairness Your boat had a new tank and came with a trailer
It may not be a total resto but if it has the original tank in it it is a project boat cause that tank is a 700 poung gorilla whistling by the grave yard with one foot on a banana peel They are dropping like flies now any classic from that era with an original tank is on borrowed time

Honey bun is up for a tank replacement Kenny's cig gave no indications no fumes nothing until it put 40 gallons out the bilge onto the street and that tank was alum not steel

So a buyer must take that into account
Splitting a bench seat is a bit more of a project than a 16 or 18 you need 12-14 people to get the deck on and off
But if the feeling is 30k is the going rate for a boat that needs to be split. Think i will be drinking the good stuff tonite cause my driveway just increased in value

jl1962
07-11-2014, 01:49 PM
But if the feeling is 30k is the going rate for a boat that needs to be split. Think i will be drinking the good stuff tonite cause my driveway just increased in value

I hope you will be! :biggrin.:

Here's another way to look at it. Say the boat could be bought for 25K (I'm just picking a number), let's say the new owner puts 25K into it over the next several years. The boat doesn't need to be restored to like new (or better than new condition) - although that's up to the next owner!. After 10 wonderful years, the boat sells for 30K - again just assuming roughly stable values. It has cost roughly 2K/year to own a wonderful, iconic Donzi. BTW - a generic 19' I/O bowrider RENTS for almost $1700/WEEK!!!!!

I can rationalize almost anything! My own math on the Ski Sporter is the boat cost me about $1250/year for 8 years - the memories?

Priceless!

Scott Pearson
07-11-2014, 02:02 PM
Good point jay. However we can only hope that that type of person you speak of has the funds to put the extra money into the boat over the years and Pzazz dosnt end up sitting behind someones house by the water uncovered roting into the dirt. That EXACTLY what happened to "the Ultimate".

So I hope whom ever ends up with this boat does it justice and has those type of funds. Or your going to get someone who blew everything they had on something they can't afford to keep.

Greg Guimond
07-11-2014, 02:09 PM
Operating costs are not to be included. If anyone of us TRULY kept an excel file with EVERY cost over the time we owned are various boats the results would be so eye opening you'd take up cycling. I actually did take up cycle racing but it was to slow for me so after years I went back to writing checks and going fast.

Greg Guimond
07-11-2014, 02:10 PM
I now have to leave for some check writing and boating. It's a great sunny afternoon :yes:

mattyboy
07-11-2014, 02:19 PM
Ok let me see if I have this straight
Buy for 25k and put another 25 k into it
But it is not a project boat

:). I'll have what your drinking

Looks like the boat was painted since I last saw her

Is a great looking boat

gcarter
07-11-2014, 04:41 PM
So a buyer must take that into account
Splitting a bench seat is a bit more of a project than a 16 or 18 you need 12-14 people to get the deck on and off
But if the feeling is 30k is the going rate for a boat that needs to be split. Think i will be drinking the good stuff tonite cause my driveway just increased in value

Matty, ya really don't need all those folks to pull the deck. W/my simple setup in my shop, I think I could pull the deck on any boat (that'll fit in the shop) w/a shoe box joint (that's not glassed together) by myself! Just sayin....

gcarter
07-11-2014, 04:54 PM
Maybe something else to consider, Donzi's been out of the boat building business for awhile, particularly Classics.
Since Donzi has announced the construction of some Anniversary models, If they sell, it may be an indicator of increased interest. After all, if someone buys a $125K 22C, there may be interest in buying my nearly finished TR boat for substantially less.

mattyboy
07-11-2014, 05:42 PM
George i am sure something could be rigged but with the size of the nose on a benchseat and the old coring i would be leary about lifting mechanically after a deck resto sure

Fishermanjm
07-11-2014, 09:19 PM
Scott i just have to say the Sting is absolutely beautiful. the engine compartment is flawless,,, where are all the wires, cables and plugs and stuff??? beautiful boat!!!

Scott Pearson
07-11-2014, 10:12 PM
Fish, We hid everything that we could through tubes and looms. It was a long process but well worth it. The underside of the dash is done the same way. I will have to post some pictures of how we do these. All the boat that I have or worked on are done this way.

Thank you!!!

olredalert
07-11-2014, 10:36 PM
----Scott,,, Maybe you missed my question? Does PZZAZZ have a balsa cored hull? Just am interested it knowing if those Daytona powered boats were the only boats treated that way or if H-M, big block Ford V-drive boats got the same treatment. Thanks in advance!......Bill S

Scott Pearson
07-12-2014, 08:13 AM
Bill,
Only the very early Hornets and Daytona's were 1/2 cored down the entire sides and entire hull bottom. A quick easy way to tell on these old boats is Donzi never cored directly over the area where the Shaft Log and Strut attach to the hull. You will see an area on the inside of the hull step down in these spots. You can see how we did it when re-cored these areas on "The Ultimate". This is how it was done from the factory.

Greg Guimond
07-12-2014, 08:27 AM
Yes I have to agree that there are some amazing boats out there like Parnell's for very fair prices. Look what your getting for the price of Parnell's...You could not build that boat for twice that. I know most of us do it for the love of the Classics but its still needs to be a reasonable price. But like Greg said...You need the right person.

With that said it will depend on what type of boat it is. Its going to be alot harder to find someone who wants a V-Drive compared to a Stern Drive.

I agree, a V-Drive on the East Coast is a major drawback to price when selling a boat on the Eastern Seaboard. Ironically, the West Coast folks love there V-Drives, but Donzi's ...... not so much.
As a test I posted Parnell's boat on both left coast sites for him. I doubt he got any hits from there in the last month.

olredalert
07-12-2014, 10:05 AM
----Thanks, Scott. My time at Donzi was just after the majority if not all of benchseats were built. I actually never even saw a benchseat at the factory back in 73 when I was there almost every day. Now I know!........Bill S

mattyboy
07-12-2014, 10:09 AM
George

if you look at the pics of Scott's deck flipped upside down you can see the rot in the coring just fwd of the deck. I would be be afraid that lifting by anything but hand the deck would snap even by hand it scares me but after the coring is replace the deck is very solid. I would think the benchseat hornet would win the fwd deck to cockpit glass ratio there is a lot of glass up there the fed deck is huge. the cockpit is basically 3.5 front to back and 6 feet wide.

Greg

very true when Scott came to my lake with wa lo BBF V drive i was really worried about him find shallow water or having issues with the ramps and getting around in the tight spaces by the docks but he did well no issues just some complaints about rattling windows. Besides that selling a boat that is so specified or doesn't have a wide appeal it will effect price and time to sale. A v drive may hurt in some buyers mind and it maybe just what someone else is looking for but the benchseat may turn others off. I love mine Marie loves the boat as well but it is really less versatile than the 16. so the layout and purpose of the boat also limits market. We got it as empty nesters an us boat other buyers may want a more people friendly boat.

there is also an easy test to see if the 427 is the holy grail it is said to be put some adds out this sept at the adirondack natls for the boat with a 427 side oiler and see if any of the car guys come down to see the boat I mean there are 40k car nutz there every year. Last big car guy I spoke to said he shys away from boat motors the marine 427s didn't cut the mustard as far as specs for the auto motors so they went to marine and industrial apps, then he said the motors are ridden hard and put a way wet.

it is a nice boat and I wish them all the best on the sale. I am sure it will find a good home.

mattyboy
07-12-2014, 10:12 AM
Bill the last one I have documented is a 71

also my 68 has no wood in the deck the deck is all foam cored about 2.5 inches

think I might go to the hardware store and pickup a for sale sign just incase

Carl C
07-12-2014, 10:57 AM
You mend 'em, I'll bend 'em. :cool!:

woobs
07-12-2014, 02:55 PM
I love the benchseats... I'd love to own one. But there's no way you could separate me from $40K to buy one as that amount (or less) buys so much more in the boating world. (a very nice local C22 ask $23,000 currently listed ready to hit the water). And that's just if you stay Donzi. An original Hornet needs a new fuel tank minimum... that ain't cheap due to the split and it's the start of the "while you're in there" song.

The only scenario I see this type of boat going for that kind of scratch is if this was a documented fresh and complete restoration (That's what the Woody boys do) and as we know.... the seller would still be upside down (losing money).

As to a value of a boat in this condition... I can't speak for others but, I don't think I'd be in over $15,000, probably closer to $10,000 (and that's generous for a prime project boat). Yes, it sounds harsh but I think that's the market.

As far as the "40K, right buyer" coming along... I hope so for the seller, but It's unlikely imho.

Fishermanjm
07-12-2014, 06:06 PM
you are the man Carl!!!

Carl C
07-12-2014, 07:29 PM
you are the man Carl!!!

After seeing the resto threads on here. No way! I prefer to drive my boat.

mattyboy
07-12-2014, 08:55 PM
After seeing the resto threads on here. No way! I prefer to drive my boat.


ummm Carl hasn't your boat been restored twice??

Carl C
07-12-2014, 09:46 PM
ummm Carl hasn't your boat been restored twice??

Ummm, no. I bought it brand new in '05 and it is garage kept. I did some mods and upgrades though! :)

mattyboy
07-12-2014, 09:53 PM
so the stringers never had to be repaired???????? so the boat has had no glass work done to it so the bottom wouldn't fall out???? you may not have restored it but your boat is restored. Funny your 10 yr old boat has had more glass work done to it than the 45 yr old boat that we are talking about . yup bent it is

duckhunter
07-12-2014, 11:03 PM
I love the benchseats... I'd love to own one. But there's no way you could separate me from $40K to buy one as that amount (or less) buys so much more in the boating world. (a very nice local C22 ask $23,000 currently listed ready to hit the water). And that's just if you stay Donzi. An original Hornet needs a new fuel tank minimum... that ain't cheap due to the split and it's the start of the "while you're in there" song.

The only scenario I see this type of boat going for that kind of scratch is if this was a documented fresh and complete restoration (That's what the Woody boys do) and as we know.... the seller would still be upside down (losing money).

As to a value of a boat in this condition... I can't speak for others but, I don't think I'd be in over $15,000, probably closer to $10,000 (and that's generous for a prime project boat). Yes, it sounds harsh but I think that's the market.

As far as the "40K, right buyer" coming along... I hope so for the seller, but It's unlikely imho.

From my foxhole this is spot-on.

Greg Guimond
07-12-2014, 11:13 PM
so the stringers never had to be repaired???????? so the boat has had no glass work done to it so the bottom wouldn't fall out???? you may not have restored it but your boat is restored. Funny your 10 yr old boat has had more glass work done to it than the 45 yr old boat that we are talking about . yup bent it is

Bottom fall out? If Carl's 22 represents the kind of restorations (and money spent) a lot of our old tubs needed than I'm really confused. I think he did a few structural hull improvements. No big deal for an 85mph runner. :cool:

Carl C
07-13-2014, 07:14 AM
so the stringers never had to be repaired???????? so the boat has had no glass work done to it so the bottom wouldn't fall out???? you may not have restored it but your boat is restored. Funny your 10 yr old boat has had more glass work done to it than the 45 yr old boat that we are talking about . yup bent it is

Hey, azzhole, my boat had minor gel cracking on the bottom. Donzi paid to have a factory engineered mini-stringer system installed in the engine room. This stopped the hull flexing and fixed the problem. The stringers were and are fine. The damage was cosmetic as it was caught very early due to a head's up on this site. The gel cracks were near invisible and the only way to see them was to crawl under the boat with a bright light. The small gel cracks did return soon and I took my boat to Capt'n Nabbers Shop for repair. It turned out that the "cracks" were filled with putty and the gel sprayed over that. Nabber's fixed them properly. That was in '09. No problems since and I run the boat in real off-shore conditions on the GREAT Lakes. I also further reinforced the engine room floor with four layers of stitchmat when I put in the 525. The only wood coring in my boat is in the floor, deck and engine hatch. The hull is solid glass. The transom is composite. I believe the stringers are also a composite material but not sure. My boat is solid as can be and, no, it has not been restored. Some minor repairs? Yes. Lots of upgrades? Yes. It is in mint condition and not for sale. I was referring to the many resto threads that I have seen drag on for years and quite a few abandoned after years of effort. Restoring a boat is not for me. Driving them is. So give it a break and stop bad mouthing my boat which I have $100,000 into and is much nicer than yours. :lightning

Thanks, Greg.

Ghost
07-13-2014, 10:33 AM
To me what this thread illustrates about the value question is that the market is a small one. So small, one might have to test it to know. As even among all of us classic performance boat enthusiasts, the value of a boat like the one in question is very different.

gcarter
07-13-2014, 11:11 AM
I love the benchseats... I'd love to own one. But there's no way you could separate me from $40K to buy one as that amount (or less) buys so much more in the boating world. (a very nice local C22 ask $23,000 currently listed ready to hit the water). And that's just if you stay Donzi. An original Hornet needs a new fuel tank minimum... that ain't cheap due to the split and it's the start of the "while you're in there" song.

The only scenario I see this type of boat going for that kind of scratch is if this was a documented fresh and complete restoration (That's what the Woody boys do) and as we know.... the seller would still be upside down (losing money).

As to a value of a boat in this condition... I can't speak for others but, I don't think I'd be in over $15,000, probably closer to $10,000 (and that's generous for a prime project boat). Yes, it sounds harsh but I think that's the market.

As far as the "40K, right buyer" coming along... I hope so for the seller, but It's unlikely imho.

I think I have to agree w/this considering the amount of work involved.
When I bought the TR in '07 for $11.5K, I also investigated a questionable F22 (see picture below). Talk about rare! Nine built, I think.
But I think they're kind of ugly w/o a windshield (the only way they came). Anyway, the owner wanted about $4K too much, and the trailer was a mess too (steel, and it looked like a bridge truss), so I wished them well.
When I started disassembling the TR, I discovered 22C's (including F22's, and Criterions) of a certain age have a LOT of inherent issues, which probably equals the complexity of BS Hornets if done correctly.
So, here I am 7 years later, w/an additional $50K invested (no labor) and where do I go from here? Ya can't sell an incomplete project w/o giving it away (I tried). So, it's on to completion hoping someone wants a like (or in many cases, better than) new red 22C.
The ugly truth is that 30-40 year old boats will need EVERYTHING! And the fact the finish is good, and the stringers are dry means NOTHING. Besides the new tank, stringer and bottom glass, cockpit floor glass, every piece of wire and switchgear has to be replaced. How many dollars and hours does that take?

mattyboy
07-13-2014, 11:29 AM
Hey, azzhole, my boat had minor gel cracking on the bottom. Donzi paid to have a factory engineered mini-stringer system installed in the engine room. This stopped the hull flexing and fixed the problem. The stringers were and are fine. The damage was cosmetic as it was caught very early due to a head's up on this site. The gel cracks were near invisible and the only way to see them was to crawl under the boat with a bright light. The small gel cracks did return soon and I took my boat to Capt'n Nabbers Shop for repair. It turned out that the "cracks" were filled with putty and the gel sprayed over that. Nabber's fixed them properly. That was in '09. No problems since and I run the boat in real off-shore conditions on the GREAT Lakes. I also further reinforced the engine room floor with four layers of stitchmat when I put in the 525. The only wood coring in my boat is in the floor, deck and engine hatch. The hull is solid glass. The transom is composite. I believe the stringers are also a composite material but not sure. My boat is solid as can be and, no, it has not been restored. Some minor repairs? Yes. Lots of upgrades? Yes. It is in mint condition and not for sale. I was referring to the many resto threads that I have seen drag on for years and quite a few abandoned after years of effort. Restoring a boat is not for me. Driving them is. So give it a break and stop bad mouthing my boat which I have $100,000 into and is much nicer than yours. :lightning

Thanks, Greg.

Carl
no need for vulgarity the discussion in this thread is about the value of a rare mostly original 45 yr old Donzi classic the opinion you stated is you would rather buy new than restore that's all fine and dandy. Please remember at the core of the site is the notion of keeping these old classics running that's where it started and then it took off from there into social media about all Donzi and other boats and the boating lifestyle. Many members have done full or part resto's from a fluff and buff to a keel up resto. I realize that saving and owning a true classic from the golden days is not everyones cup of tea some like newer boats and not wrenching or tweaking
I am not bad mouthing your boat I am asking you to be honest about it. The production method was changed and it lead to this problem on yours any many many other boats. Donzi came out with a repair and they took care of it but I think this repair is not minor in my mind a minor repair is fixing dock rash a repair that is not done to the bottom that will get worse if not repaired or addressed is a bit more than minor you may feel differently .

I stated that this 45 yr old boat had less glass work done than yours again no need for name calling.

yes there are some restos that seem to go on forever but then there are some that get done in an timely fashion and the results are show stopping.
Some of these restos are far better than whatever rolled out the doors at the Donzi factory during any era. look at some of the end products that Parnell or GCarter, and Pearson turn out. Nobody will admit it but Pearson's Pumpkin made such a splash at the owners event in Fla in the early 00's that it was the inspiration for the 40th anniv models. Keep in mind that without the mystique and cult following of these old classics your 2005 boat is never produced. well in the classic line that is in the bigger lines Steve Simon and the racing efforts put the ZR on the map. In the classic lines it always goes back to 188th st and Don and the 16 where it all started.

I can only hope that someone with the drive and passion for these old classics gets a hold of PZAZZ and does it justice.

very interested in where this all ends up

mattyboy
07-13-2014, 11:44 AM
To me what this thread illustrates about the value question is that the market is a small one. So small, one might have to test it to know. As even among all of us classic performance boat enthusiasts, the value of a boat like the one in question is very different.

very true but the supply end of the equation changes or has changed lately . It is a generational thing this boat was not for sale nor would be for sale for any amount 10 yrs ago. one or two seem to change hands every 5 yrs or so but back in the late 90s and early 00s they were hard to find. As the original owners aged their boats came up for sale . lately a few boats in all parts of disrepair and incomplete have changed hands all projects needing a ton of work the range has been from 3k on the low end to 12k on the high end. All of these were non running boats this is an original complete boat that with a tune up will run if it hasn't been tuned up by now. The last one that sold like this was mine in 09 a tune up and a bit of wiring to get running.

So buyer looking for one has to think when will I get the chance again? and that is different for a 16 an 18 or an x18 buyer. yeah we are in pretty uncharted waters

Ghost
07-13-2014, 11:55 AM
Agreed, Matty. I also wonder about the original vs. restored thing, especially when compared to cars. My bias is definitely toward restored, in that I can APPRECIATE a boat being original, but FOR ME that doesn't have a lot of inherent value. (And I can totally understand someone having the exact opposite view.) But my guess is most folks (meaning, potential buyers) just want a boat to be functional and nice, regardless of whether that's a result of being a pristine original or a restored boat. Just another factor in the smallness of the true market, I suppose.

George, your post set me to thinking a little. I have a slightly different thought on whether it matters if the glass and stringers are good. My experience is that glasswork takes a ton of labor relative to re-rigging. Where re-rigging costs a fortune in parts compared to glasswork. Both are expensive if you pay to have them done, but for different reasons. If doing all the work oneself, the checkbook pain is much more on the re-rigging side. Where with my own boats (not doing the work myself), the pain is far more on the glasswork side.

gcarter
07-13-2014, 12:53 PM
George, your post set me to thinking a little. I have a slightly different thought on whether it matters if the glass and stringers are good. My experience is that glasswork takes a ton of labor relative to re-rigging. Where re-rigging costs a fortune in parts compared to glasswork. Both are expensive if you pay to have them done, but for different reasons. If doing all the work oneself, the checkbook pain is much more on the re-rigging side. Where with my own boats (not doing the work myself), the pain is far more on the glasswork side.

Just to keep this on subject (BS Hornets), I've not inspected an unrestored boat, other than seeing pictures of acres of rotted, water saturated balsa coring. I've not had the opportunity to inspect the bottom stringer/inner hull joints, or cut open underneath the inner side of said joint to see if Donzi scarfed the stringer wood bottom to match up to the inner hull, or do they need to be cut open and filled? Do the cockpit floors crack at the bench seat bottom? Do the forward ends of the cockpit floor crack at the juncture w/the cockpit side?
These are important questions concerning the structural integrity of the boat. If the boat fails these tests, then they really need attention at a glass shop that the buyer will pay for in addition to funding the re-rigging.
I guess I'm pretty jaded at this point. It seems a lot of folks need to take some saltpeter (to reduce the desire) and sleep on it for a few weeks or months and make sure they have adequate funds, or skills AND funds, to undertake old performance boat ownership and maintenance.

mattyboy
07-13-2014, 01:17 PM
the seats are usually the first area to go a large span unsupported with saging and cracking and the deck would also sag

my stringers were solid but as Scott said with the BB v drive boats they notched the stringers and never sealed them like the x18

the coring on the early boats was not done to today's standards

I'll take a look at those areas George she does show some wrinkles at her age and the deck has some cosmetic gel cracking but is solid when my 250lbs walks across it

Greg Guimond
07-13-2014, 02:45 PM
The ugly truth is that 30-40 year old boats will need EVERYTHING! And the fact the finish is good, and the stringers are dry means NOTHING. Besides the new tank, stringer and bottom glass, cockpit floor glass, every piece of wire and switchgear has to be replaced. How many dollars and hours does that take?

Pretty much hits the nail on the head. Once you get into that BS Hornet, the new owner will continue to find more, and more, and more to remedy. And with a model that rare it really should be done the proper way and with an open checkbook. Then enjoy it, knowing that you will loose 1/2 to 2/3 of all the money you spent when the day comes to sell, but that you saved a piece of history for the future.

mattyboy
07-13-2014, 03:00 PM
keep in mind that this is a complete boat it's all there no reproducing parts or trying to hunt them down so the cost to resto is just about the same as restoring an ordinary classic. I mean most of the parts are the same and in the same quantities gauges vents dash plates the interior may be cheaper as it is a 3 piece layout.
I am figuring this boat is in the 15k-18k range without a trailer and 18k to 24k with a trailer

Greg Guimond
07-13-2014, 03:19 PM
So to keep it simple, let's say the current owner wants $30,000 for the boat only. The true value is $20,000 only because the models are rare, trade infrequently, and all the bits and pieces are in place to facilitate a proper restoration. The current owner sits on the boat for a year patiently, then a second year with frustration, and then finally gives up and accepts $20,000 with a frown :frown: and goes out and kicks his dog.

How much does it now cost the new owner to restore the boat to a Mr. Carter level (level 10) or say a 9? And you really have to keep track of every cost down to the last SS screw. Big number I would think even if the buyer has amazing talent and the proper facilities.

How much money?

ps: forget about a trailer as that is almost a separate event and very buyer specific. go argentina!

Ghost
07-13-2014, 03:29 PM
I think if you look closely, being rare and trading infrequently are reasons the price would tend to rise. They are constraints on supply. Limits on the demand side are what push prices down.

gcarter
07-13-2014, 03:39 PM
So to keep it simple, let's say the current owner wants $30,000 for the boat only. The true value is $20,000 only because the models are rare, trade infrequently, and all the bits and pieces are in place to facilitate a proper restoration. The current seller sits on the boat for a year patiently, then a second year with frustration, and then finally gives up and accepts $20,000 with a frown :frown: and goes out and kicks his dog.

How much does it now cost the new owner to restore the boat to a Mr. Carter level (level 10) or say a 9? And you really have to keep track of every cost down to the last SS screw. Big number I would think even if the buyer has amazing talent and the proper facilities.

How much money?

ps: forget about a trailer as that is almost a separate event and very buyer specific. go argentina!

Greg, that's the point, a fiberglass boat made by Donzi is basically the same as any other Donzi as far as restoration materials and needs are concerned.
That was the point I was making above, they all tend to have the same problems. So the costs will be similar to mine. Looking back, I could have saved some money and time by painting the deck and cockpit instead of gel.

BUIZILLA
07-13-2014, 03:51 PM
Donzi made at least twice as many BS Hornets as all Criterion's combined, and they are, in reality, a bench seat as well, with more modern power... so why does an unrestored BS Hornet deserve a 30-50K number? because it's an antique V-drive?

not taking away anything from a BS Hornet, but reality, is reality..

Greg Guimond
07-13-2014, 03:53 PM
Greg, that's the point, a fiberglass boat made by Donzi is basically the same as any other Donzi as far as restoration materials and needs are concerned.
That was the point I was making above, they all tend to have the same problems. So the costs will be similar to mine. Looking back, I could have saved some money and time by painting the deck and cockpit instead of gel.


I agree, so how much does it cost for the restoration on top of the $20,000 initial purchase price?

mattyboy
07-13-2014, 03:57 PM
Greg

depends on what the buyer is looking for a showboat or a safe reliable survivor i would think updating the fuel system and some minor glass work to support the seat and it could be a daily driver

i think the trailer and also location have a part in this as well and are not separate events.

a buyer must take both into account where is it and how do I get it here? Mine came with a trailer small for the boat and really no more than block block and a half worthy. it served it's purpose I borrowed a trailer and swapped it off that trailer and towed the boat on the borrowed trailer and towed the one it came on home empty .
it was used during the re fit and then I got a new trailer.

one of the last BS that changed hands the buyer bought a tow vehicle near where the boat was and pulled it back to the west coast from the east coast. it may pay for the seller to get a good used adjustable bunk trailer under it that investment might come back in spades.

woobs
07-13-2014, 03:58 PM
It may be rare in terms of Donzi and our rose coloured glasses however, this is not a collectable boat by anyone else other than this community. I understand the optimism by which it might be valued here but, I think you have to look at it this way... If it was a fresh, documented and complete 9+ restoration what is it worth? 50,000+? now subtract the $40,000+ you need to get it there.

Not just this boat but, ANY decent 40 year old survivor is worth about $10,000. Less if it is missing parts or has known (major) issues. The fact that this one is in reasonable condition means it is a better candidate for the restoration and more desirable in terms of procurement and can command the $10K.

Now, I have no skin in the game and I call it as i see it... but, we'll see over some time if any of these boats start to move and for how much. I hope I'm wrong.

olredalert
07-13-2014, 04:27 PM
-----Im sorry, Greg. Don't mean to step on your toes, but where did you ever hear that the price is $20,000? That is total speculation and in fact wont nearly get the job done. There are a lot of things going on with the necessity of this sale, and Im pretty darn sure that $20,000 wont do it. If you haven't been over on .org you probably should go over there and read or re-read the thread there. Im not sure how much above that figure will take it so I guess we will have to just wait and see. In point of fact I already have made an offer of more than that and that didn't do it. Id love to have this piece of history......Bill S

-----And Woobs,,,As far as a $10,000 value. Absolutely no malice intended here, but come on!!! Really??? You seem like a decent guy but it almost seems like you are trying to force the value down. I paid too much for my Fino. I did it with the full understanding that I would be way upside down when finished. I knew that the chances of me finding another Fino in that condition were slim and none. Id do it again. There are plenty of people around that want what they want and will pay too much. Arent you from the Muskoka are? There are huge numbers of people up on those three lakes that simply want what they want and they aren't all wood boat guys!

Greg Guimond
07-13-2014, 04:46 PM
-----I'm sorry, Greg. Don't mean to step on your toes, but where did you ever hear that the price is $20,000? That is total speculation and in fact wont nearly get the job done.

No problem whatsoever Bill but I actually said that the asking price of the boat was $30,000 if you read my post.

Greg Guimond
07-13-2014, 04:49 PM
Does anyone actually know the exact asking price of the boat and what state it is located in?

Morgan's Cloud
07-13-2014, 05:00 PM
How much does it now cost the new owner to restore the boat to a Mr. Carter level (level 10) or say a 9?




You're shortchanging George there . That's a 12+ level

olredalert
07-13-2014, 05:06 PM
----Sorry Greg! I saw $20,000 in your post as well and now am corrected. The price that I know is $40,000 and the boat is in Lake George N.Y. ........Bill S

woobs
07-13-2014, 05:12 PM
[QUOTE=olredalert;652684
-----And Woobs, but come on!!! Really??? [/QUOTE]

Yep, really. I'm not trying to force anything anywhere... I have nothing to gain or lose by my analysis (which works for me). I just don't see the value at anything over 10K with the work that needs to be done end cost is 50 - 60K. Don't kid yourself, that's what we're talking at a 10K acquisition. There's lots of 50K - 60K plastic boats available and a lot of really nice ones (Donzis included) for far less than that.

Go back to post#1... If Wa-lo is not selling at $21,000 and it has a lot of value in mechanicals end other positives... it is a pretty good indicator even if it is a 2+3.

The Muskoka boys usually do a full restoration and then sell. Yes, usually a lot of $ but, many of these boats are documented and cost even more. Furthermore, there is an established market and the woodies ARE collectable. Project boats are always a mere fraction of the restored value (and a smaller fraction of the restored cost). But, for some reason wood boats ARE different.

This thread is a discussion about BS Hornet values... You can't rationalize a guy that says "I want it" and has the resources to make it happen no matter what.

As I said, I hope the seller gets more and I think it's great that you feel it's worth more. Maybe you are the guy to buy this boat because you really want it. The outcome will decide how much you want it as it's worth what someone will pay. If it were me I'd pay about 10K but, then It sounds like that will not get it done for this boat. So I'd be looking elsewhere for another one.

Greg Guimond
07-13-2014, 05:37 PM
----Sorry Greg! I saw $20,000 in your post as well and now am corrected. The price that I know is $40,000 and the boat is in Lake George N.Y. ........Bill S

No worries at all! Also, you could not be more correct about people who "want what they want" and will pay up. That is what I meant when I replied to Pearson's earlier post that it's both the right buyer, and the right timing. That said, if the new buyer (whether he ended up paying full ask of $40k, $30k, or even $20k) is capable of doing his own Carter or Pearson level work I suspect the costs would add up quickly. Very quickly.

Scott Pearson
07-13-2014, 07:48 PM
40K...wow. The owner will have a hell of a time getting half of that. Bill...Did you see the boat yourself? I did and spent a lot of time going through it. I would really watch what you have been told or if the person who looked at it knows exactly what they are looking for. I offered Chris Freihofer a pretty big number for this boat back in 2002. That was 12 years ago and before someone attempted to paint it. I can assure you...It was a lot nicer 12 years ago.

Hell...I would sell mine for a responsible offer if they are bringing that much for one that needs a lot of work.. The structure of my boat is completely done and done right, all new Bilt-Rite interior, cockpit cover and carpet, new windshield and frame restored, New scripts and decals, New steering wheel and New Teleflex chrome bezel all new NOS gauges, compass, Morse Control, Morse docking lights, Sparton air horns, etc...all in the original boxes and from the 60's.

Also speaking of other boats look at this 67 Barrel Back. We all heard about this boat a year or so ago. I was offered this boat and spent about 2 hours looking it over. This had a 427 with 2 4's! It was a higher HP motor than Pzazz and I could have bought this boat for $6500.00. He originally wanted 15K because he was under the impression that the motor was worth a ton of money. Sorry...their not. I passed on the boat because I didn't want another Barrel back. And it ended up selling for about that price. And it was 100% original with 2 Trailers and all new interior!

How about this BS Hornet? This was the only Daytona Marine BBC twin turbo boat. Brownie spoke of this boat years ago and that Donzi only made one. I knew someone who wanted a BS Hornet. This is one of the BS Hornets that I knew about and kept in my back pocket. The person I knew who wanted one would do it justice a make it right. So he purchased it. And guess what...the price wasn't even 1/4 of what Pzazz is going for. And this particular BS Hornet is super rare.

I have to agree with Jim also, Criterion's are a lot more rare than BS Hornets so why are they not bringing more money?

Greg Guimond
07-13-2014, 08:24 PM
Boats, with a very few rare exceptions tied to long term emotions and fond memories just aint cars as we all know. I paid $75k for my 1997 993 Turbo, drove it for four years with nominal operating costs and sold it for exactly $75k in 4 weeks to a guy in Florida who was a pleasure to work with. It's a sliver market for boats, even the rare ones. The Schiada's out West which fetch big money also take a long time to move. You have to line up a lot more variables than a car and it takes a ton of time to educate folks about the value of what was done to the boat. Some people like to sell the value and others get frustrated and aren't into selling. IMO you are ALWAYS better off paying strong money for a turn key mint restoration of any relatively rare boat should it ever become available. If the BS Hornet fetches $20k and then, say you do/coordinate all the needed work yourself (I have no ability to do that) you still write a second restoration check for say ..... $40,000? You now have a $60,000 mint BS Hornet V drive.

Now, if you are talented and like to do boat restoration projects because you enjoy doing them, then the $40k hard money expense and "zero" dollar sweat equity hours are 110% worth it.

joseph m. hahnl
07-13-2014, 09:09 PM
I think it all boils down to banks and out pocket:yes: No bank is going to finance an old boat and $ 30,000 cash out a pocket is tuff for most to bare:boggled: So in order to get that kind of a sales price it has to be bought by an individual with deep pockets:kingme:

Carl C
07-14-2014, 06:05 AM
I think it all boils down to banks and out pocket:yes: No bank is going to finance an old boat and $ 30,000 cash out a pocket is tuff for most to bare:boggled: So in order to get that kind of a sales price it has to be bought by an individual with deep pockets:kingme:

Or, if you have the equity, take out a second mortgage and get a great interest rate and it is tax deductible. :)

Scott Pearson
07-14-2014, 07:50 AM
Matty,
This will be a great indication as to what your BS Hornet isworth. Both your Hornet and Pzazz are about identical in appearance and structurallythe same. You have an I/O and Pzazz has a BB Ford. So it’s pretty much a washin my opinion as to what one is more desirable to someone. You just have tofind that someone who prefers one set-up over the other.

The big difference is you have a custom built Performancetrailer that’s built and painted to match the boat. And your motor is brandnew.

I think this will be interesting.

My only concern with Pzazz is that if the new owner doesn’t agreeon an offered price because he has a number in his head that he thinks it worthand will only hold out for that amount than the boat might sit and rot. Like Isaid in an earlier post…That’s what happened to “The Ultimate”.

I think we haveall seen this scenario with cars and boats.

mattyboy
07-14-2014, 09:12 AM
yes extremely interesting in this but in the back of my mind are the yellow 16 in tx and the muncie 16 these were both fresh restos each boat was offered in the 45k range which back 8-10 yrs ago was high for the market and that was before the economy tanked. each sold in the mid 20s which was a fair price for each.

rare boats are for one reason they didn't make alot which means they didn't appeal to the masses like other models that were made in large numbers. This could be for a few reasons with the BS Baby and Criterion the seating arrangement and functionality may not be everyone's cup of tea.

sought after boats are usually rare boats but have something else going for them that the buyer wants . Some need to have a boat that is a True Aronow boat made when Don was in control of the company either and early Formula,Donzi, Magnum , Cigarette,Squadron XII and so on. Or it is unique in numbers , performance ,looks, or something that the buyer must have.

I love my benchseat it has tons of storage rides well is very comfy doesn't beat us like the 16 . But it has its down side too if a family of 4 comes for a visit it means two rides. It needs alot of power to get going. So I can see where it might not appeal to everyone, but there is a market they do sell every so often.To see the value of the BS( or other rare models) over other older more common classics is they sell in total basket case with major parts missing were a 16 or an 18 didn't and went to the dump


Scott
I was doing a comparision from mine to PZAZZ as they are very close in shape and condition these are the only two survivors with some cosemetic and refit work that I know about.All the others are total restos or project in progress.


My Pot O gold at the end of the rainbow ;)

Greg Guimond
07-14-2014, 09:49 AM
Is there an actual online ad for the sale of Pzazz listed somewhere with the asking price? It would be interesting to see how well the ad is written and how the current owner reps the boat. :yes:

BUIZILLA
07-14-2014, 11:04 AM
did I read that Pzazz had been painted? if so, that takes away from originality in a BIG way

did I also read that it hasn't been in the water for several years?

my apology's if I read wrong

Scott Pearson
07-14-2014, 12:09 PM
Jim yes the hull sides, transom and hull bottom have been painted. It's a pretty poor job. Dirt, runs and very bad blistering on the entire hull bottom. They did tape off around hardware on transom too. Also looks like they did some kind of coating on 1/3 of the bottom.

Boats that have been painted right I have no issue with and I feel if it's done correctly should not effect the value. However, Pzazz is done poorly.

Hasn't been in the water for about 7 years also.

Greg Guimond
07-14-2014, 01:38 PM
I bought the TR in '07 for $11.5K. I also investigated an F22. Talk about rare! Nine built, I think. When I started disassembling the TR, I discovered 22C's of a certain age have a LOT of inherent issues, which probably equals the complexity of BS Hornets if done correctly. So, here I am 7 years later, with an additional $50K invested (no labor) and where do I go from here? Ya can't sell an incomplete project w/o giving it away (I tried). So, it's on to completion hoping someone wants a like new red 22C.

I missed the specific dollars in this post. I think it's fair to say that Mr. Carter has a knack for finding the needed materials and pieces as inexpensively as humanly possible so he sets the bar for both skill and will.
With that in mind, he's spent $50,000 in parts, supplies and products ONLY and isn't done. That tells me that my $40,000 check for the BS Hornet is probably light.

$20,000 purchase price plus $50,000 materials cost. Maybe you have a show winner for $70,000 that you run for a half dozen and enjoy before selling it.

bertsboat
07-14-2014, 02:01 PM
This is an alternative. 4.3 Mercruiser and trailer and all http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2012-Hornet-Marine-17-Closed-Bow-101954175

A fully ready to go boating and the bank will buy it for you.

2012 Hornet Marine 17 Closed Bow, The Beauty of Classic Lines Meets the Thrill of Modern Engineering! With sleek styling and unbeatable performance, the Hornet 17 was deisgned to satisfy the thrill-seeker in all of us. Whether you crave that rush of adrenaline that only a high-speed ride on the water can provide or just a fun escape from the everyday, the Hornet 17 is built to satisfy any boaters passion. As Equipped: Mercruiser - 4.3 liter MPI 220hp 6cyl, Alpha One Outdrive Fusion Sound System with 2 Speakers Underwater Transom Lights Lenco Electric Trim Tabs with LED dash display Pull Out Safe Stop Transom Ladder Cockpit Carpet Full Canvas Cover (trailerable) Stainless Steel Rub Rail with Backing Upgrade Stainless Steel Grab Rail (Front Port Side) Stainless Steel Grab Rail (Rear Starboard Side) *CUSTOM BUNK TRAILER IS NOT INCLUDED IN PRICE! Specifications Length: 17' Beam: 7' Draft: 19" Weight: 2455 lbs Fuel Capacity: 23 gals Dead-Rise: 24" Seating Capacity: 5 Weight Capacity: 1062 lbs

mattyboy
07-14-2014, 02:26 PM
Jim yes the hull sides, transom and hull bottom have been painted. It's a pretty poor job. Dirt, runs and very bad blistering on the entire hull bottom. They did tape off around hardware on transom too. Also looks like they did some kind of coating on 1/3 of the bottom.

Boats that have been painted right I have no issue with and I feel if it's done correctly should not effect the value. However, Pzazz is done poorly.

Hasn't been in the water for about 7 years also.


have to agree paint done right has nothing but an upside when it comes to resale value on an older boat.

Morgan's Cloud
07-14-2014, 02:38 PM
I love my benchseat it has tons of storage rides well is very comfy doesn't beat us like the 16 . But it has its down side too




Damnit ! You forgot the 'head' ! I can't believe how cool that is in a 19' open boat.

There isn't a chick on the planet who thinks your boat is impractical .

gcarter
07-14-2014, 02:45 PM
I missed the specific dollars in this post. I think it's fair to say that Mr. Carter has a knack for finding the needed materials and pieces as inexpensively as humanly possible so he sets the bar for both skill and will.
With that in mind, he's spent $50,000 in parts, supplies and products ONLY and isn't done. That tells me that my $40,000 check for the BS Hornet is probably light.

$20,000 purchase price plus $50,000 materials cost. Maybe you have a show winner for $70,000 that you run for a half dozen and enjoy before selling it.

Yes, I have 90% of the receipts (some inevitably go through the company, and they're not included), and most (the first half anyway), on a spreadsheet. I'm waiting for a slow day so I can get our accountant to do the rest, but the number is pretty accurate.
Also, I suppose glass shops work for $90.00/hour, I'm grateful I had very little outside work done. Most of the outside work was machine shop, welding shop, etc.

mattyboy
07-14-2014, 08:55 PM
Damnit ! You forgot the 'head' ! I can't believe how cool that is in a 19' open boat.

There isn't a chick on the planet who thinks your boat is impractical .

they say money you invest in bathrooms and kitchens comes back three fold :yes:

Greg Guimond
07-14-2014, 09:27 PM
Yes, I have 90% of the receipts and most (the first half anyway) on a spreadsheet. I'm waiting for a slow day so I can get our accountant to do the rest, but the number is pretty accurate. Also, I suppose glass shops work for $90.00/hour. I'm grateful I had very little outside work done. Most of the outside work was machine shop, welding shop, etc.

Mr. Carter in addition to your overall talent you also have a very unique ability to source used items and then retro-fit them into your restoration strategy with a "better than original" end result. That saves a fair amount of money. I would also think that glass work in most parts of the country at $90 an hour would be correct. So in the end, I guess a buyer would be doing extremely well to fully restore the BS Hornet to a Level 9 for $50,000 ..... on top of the purchase price.

I guess the current owner of the BS Hornet does not have an actual ad out for the boat, maybe it's more Lake George NY word of mouth that it's for sale for $40k-$30K-$20k.

RockyS18
07-14-2014, 11:37 PM
Look, I haven't read the whole thread, but I understand that there is some criticism about the asking price. What's the problem? Maybe it is outrageous in your opinions. But it's a one owner boat that has been in the guy's family his whole life. It's one-of-a-kind, the first made, nonetheless with the largest engine package available. The engine alone is valuable to a car collector. But that's not the point. The sentimental value is the point. I don't think he is in any rush to sell it, and probably doesn't need to, which justifies the high price. He's not going to give away all those memories when he can just wait around for the right buyer who falls in love with the boat.

I'm doing the same thing with my car. I'm in no rush to sell it, so it is listed for a (likely much) higher asking price than it's worth. If the right buyer falls in love with the car (it is a sports car with a rare and sought after color/option combo), then I'm happy to sell for the high price. But I'm not going to give away something that I don't need to give away at the moment.

Scott Pearson
07-15-2014, 06:08 AM
Rocky, Please read the WHOLE thread. The original owner does not own it any longer. Its not one of a kind nor the first made. Once again...please read the entire thread before you comment.

jl1962
07-15-2014, 07:45 AM
I think as this thread approaches page 7 that all of the pros and cons of this awesome boat have been stated and restated several times. I get it, part of the fun here is price discovery, these boats don't change hands very often and they are all different after nearly 5 decades. It's not like getting a quote on GE.

But I think it's time to take a deep breath and let the market process work.

Good luck to the buyer and the seller!

:cool!:

Greg Guimond
07-15-2014, 08:14 AM
7 pages? For me that's a sand wedge lol. It'll be hard to sell the boat at any price without an actual advertisement from the current owner :rolleyes:

Sweet Cheekz
07-15-2014, 08:45 AM
Interesting thread and topic.
Just a few comments from the bleachers
Obviously the market is a small one for a restored Donzi thats priced at even half or less than what is into it but I think what makes it even harder is the nature of the resto. For example I think the sting is one of the coolest and best done restorations I ever saw but I could never part with 40-60k for the performance the boat offers. Using the same logic, many buyers of a restored Donzi dont consider mine at almost any price because of the non original upgrades. Neither is wrong for any one individual but it splits a small field even smaller. Regardless of whats been spent on a resto, if its well done the potential buyer still has to be moved by everything about the boat to cut a big check for a boat that just isnt very large and on paper is old. In addition there are more than a few restorations that werent very well done.

The second challenge I see is that many uninformed buyers dont have any idea what upgrades and restoration truely costs if its going to be done right. I have just enough knowledge to know that if Scott does a glass upgrade it looks to be perfect from the few examples I have seen. Many others have spent money for someone else to do the job, and like Carls story they dont get done right. Im glad Carls did eventually get done to his satisfaction but at the end of the day in my humble opinion Donzi did not build very many high quality boats. The designs were great, the styling was like few others and the history is unbeatable but the build quality sucked bad. I have heard about how fabulous Georges boat is from many people most likely because he has been lovingly paying attention to every detail for many years. There are many other examples on this board of what I am talking about. These restorations take a lot of time and money and most buyers dont appreciate those hard facts

I see potential buyers pass on my boat to buy mid 90's 22's that they envision as turnkey 60 mph boats that look great for 20-30k only to find that eventually they end up putting 10-20k into repairs or off the boats unrepaired to some other unsuspecting buyer and when they are done what do they have? A 60 mph boat that looks and runs like it did before. Not saying thats wrong but if potential buyers really cracked open a Donzi and saw whats doing on the inside they might narrow their searches and be more particular on what they buy and be willing to pay more upfront to pay way less later. High quality and or high performance come at a high cost and any potential buyer has to appreciate that or none of these boats will sell for anywhere near what they are worth

As for the hornet, like most of us have said before, the market will ultimately determine what they bring and I hope its a lot becuase they are very cool boats. Everyone who has restored a Donzi and spent a lot of money knew going in that they werent going to be making a trainload of money. Thats not what I thought. I loved the whole two year process and I love the final result. Now I need to find the right person to appreciate what I did and pay me less than half of what I invested to enjoy it. Thats harder than you would think but best of luck to all trying
Parnell

mattyboy
07-15-2014, 09:12 AM
Thought this site was an informational and discussion board about these wonderful boats. Yes 7 pages and it has wondered a bit as all longer threads do . I feel that in the discussion on value of this particular boat we have a pretty accurate evaluation on the topic of selling buying and restoring one of these older rare classics.

Rocky
no one in bashing the boat it is a very unique rare boat that looks like it is in decent shape for its age from pics. What we are trying to do is get a picture of what its value is or will be. I have seen Urban Legend creep into the stories behind many older classics and in some way make their way into the selling price. For the purposes of this discussion and information for anyone who sees this in the future let's see if we can seperate fact for fiction

The motor myth : This may have had some truth way back when and we do know that older v drive donzi classics were cut up to get motors out but that has changed over the last 15 years. So the motors do have some value but the value of the boats as been realized and people hold onto and won't let the boats get cut up. That doesn't mean the motors are worthy 10s of thousands of dollars. The last 427 side oiler v drive n18 barrelback project had the 400 hp 2X4 carb setup it sold it sold with other new equipment it sold for less than 7k. So the motor has some unique value as does the v drive to a buyer who wants that. There are other 427 side oiler up there and as I said every Sept 40k car nutz are up there yet the 427s still sit there.

Sentimental value: to the seller this is great to the buyer it usually means jack ****. There may be some value to a buyer to know it is a one owner boat if it has been well cared for. A buyer may shell out more bucks if the boat has sentimental or other value to him. A boat his family use to own or a boat that was owned by someone famous or had a bigger part in history like an older race boat or a race boat that won a race. For the most part value is hardware not software.

The what do I get for my money factor: You mentioned your car I assume a buyer would be able to drive the car home no matter where he lived and not have to worry about much in the future maybe a wash wax oil change tune up. The buyer could do this if he was on the lake otherwise he needs to buy a means to get it home. Besides normal fluids and maint the buyer must consider the age and originality of the fuel system and it's integrity .

So each buyer must weigh the +s and -s the I may need this but not that thingy to finally see where the real value lies and if it meets their needs and budget.

The waiting til the right buyer comes along: this is where most older Classics die a slow painful death. If the boat is not stored with great care or used during this period it leads to issues. things dry,rust,seize UP. things get wet rot and this starts taking the boat further from its value


waiting for the markets to open Good Luck hope she finds a good home

sarisracing
07-15-2014, 09:18 AM
There is a lot of talk about the value of a boat few have seen. I have no opinion as to the value and although I know both the first and second owners of the boat and have been involved in it's care since 1985 I am not selling it and will receive nothing when it is sold. What I can tell you is some of the reports on the condition of Pizzzaz are not at all accurate as the boat sits 75 feet away from me as I write this. The boat was refinished in the mid 80's, It was done with Imron and was done well. It is not full of dirt, runs and blisters as some have said. I will not speculate on why it has been misrepresented but I will assure you it is a clean nice job that has held up well for an almost 30 year old job. The are some scuffs and other imperfections as one would expect in a boat used for years since being refinished. It was not restored to "better than new" in the mid 80's and then left on a trailer to not be used as some boats are. Most of the newer Donzi's I see and work on are in poorer condition than this 46 year old boat. The 427 was rebuilt by Keith Hazell at Harbor One in Ft. Lauderdale when the boat was refinished. Keith worked at Holman and Moody back in the 60's and helped in the design of there marine engines. He went on to become a world champion offshore racer and engine builder. He did quality work. The hull is sound, running gear is sound, interior good. Unless you find a just restored example that someone has invested 50+ thousand into you will not find a cleaner, more complete, less abused "used" Hornet. What it's worth depends on if anyone wants a nice, clean old Donzi.

BUIZILLA
07-15-2014, 09:50 AM
if resale sentimentality had any value, I would have been a millionaire 35 times over... :yes:

but it doesn't, so i'm not..:nilly:

it's been a ton of fun though :pimp:

Scott Pearson
07-15-2014, 09:59 AM
Jason with all due respect. And I do mean that. I did look over Pzazz very well and the paint job has a lot of issues as I stated. I work with paint and do it for a living. I'm a painter by trade and am damn good at it... In fact I'm great at it.

Anyone who really is interested in Pzazz and understands paint will see these issues. I'm not bashing this boat. Only telling it like I see it.

I don't want the DONZI community to think that I'm lying about the paint condition. People who know me know I don't lie or suger coat things. My reputation is as important as yours. And that's important to me.

RockyS18
07-15-2014, 10:11 AM
I'm not saying the sentimental value is worth anything for the buyer- the sentimental value is why the seller isn't going to just give it away.

BUIZILLA
07-15-2014, 10:39 AM
I'm not saying the sentimental value is worth anything for the buyer- the sentimental value is why the seller isn't going to just give it away. I can fully appreciate that.... and this topic has been a great source of worthwhile and educated opinions, in every direction of experience levels

with that said, what EXACTLY is the non-giveaway asking price?

woobs
07-15-2014, 11:56 AM
When valuating any vehicle it's easy to get pulled off topic. There are many nuances, features and benefits of each unique item. You must cut through and get to a meaningful analysis free from all bias.

First, you have to ask : What is the value in the current market of a PERFECT vehicle that needs absolutely nothing. In this case the task is daunting enough because of the relative infrequency that one of these boats comes up for sale. But, If it was perfect, what is it worth?

Next you must assess condition and work backwards from the assumed utopian condition. In this case, we know that while in good shape, this boat is original and will need a fuel tank at the very minimum. Inspection of the rest of the boat should include every system, surface and structure. Now assign a cost to correct each observation to the utopian model.

The cost assigned will vary by buyer as a painter, for example, may be able to perform the paint restorations (if needed) at a fraction of retail. If the boat does not need paint this particular person has no advantage. A true market assessment should be performed at RETAIL values and not include potential savings of skilled individuals performing work at no/reduced charge.

Now add up the cost of all work to be performed and parts required. You may even add 10 - 15 % for a buffer due to the inability to find EVERYTHING in a cursory inspection. Subtract those costs from the utopian value and you have a true market value.

Now here's the real problem... with most boats, the true costs far outweigh the utopian value. So the trick is to balance how much you can afford to be upside down vs. your utopian estimate measured against the sellers willingness to part with the boat.

Everything else is just stories and fluff.

Ghost
07-15-2014, 12:21 PM
I think that's a good analysis from Woobs. I think it covers a lot, though I would say there are some differing scenarios to stir in.

Some buyers are not shopping for a boat that's perfect or to make it perfect. To illustrate, consider that the money to make a 10 year old Honda Accord perfect is more than the price of a new one. But the value isn't zero or negative (as woobs's math would dictate), they have value for use as runners. They also have value if you part them out.

So, as a friendly amendment to Woobs' analysis, I'd add that the true retail market price is also dependent on what prospective buyers want out of it. Do they just want a runner? If so, and if there isn't market interest in perfect restoration, then the market will be driven by the runner buyer, not the restorer buyer. And as has been noted, with such small markets, price sensitivity to factors like these is only increased. The true retail value is a function of woobs's math mixed with other use cases, and the number of prospective buyers for each of those use cases, no?

For instance, if the 427 side oiler were worth 15 grand on its own, the price should never get below that. The restoration math might never enter into it at all.

Or maybe the next-to-last paragraph in your post covers more than I realize, and negates all the resto-math as an academic exercise anyway. I may have glossed over the implications.

roadtrip se
07-15-2014, 12:31 PM
All small Donzi performance boats fit a very narrow niche in the market place.
That is what makes them cool, their rarity. And the community around them.

Then there is the Hornet, a niche within a niche. Even more narrow appeal.
Most know this going in. Love seeing them at a Rally. I have no desire to own one.
Not my thing.

These things as investments? Maybe in one's sanity, that is about it.

I bought my Classic to run it and tune it, period. To the low price justification advocates,
I watched a Classic 22 sell for over $80K in the past few years. Yep, something
special, that no empirical data could back-up. Go ahead and quote transaction prices
all you want, each boat is different, and so is each transaction. Blood spilled in the
water once, doesn't mean that every shark on earth gets to feed.

I get a kick at the docks at rallies. I have spent countless hours upgrading this boat,
and to most eyes, it is just another red Donzi 22. Nothing special. The offers I get
are almost comical. And not because, I have some inflated perception of what the
thing is worth... I'll leave it at that.

This thread smells a little fishy to me in some ways. Too bad really.

woobs
07-15-2014, 12:33 PM
Good call Ghost.

I'm assuming that the intent for purchase is to use the boat and not part it out. Also, just because the value is based upon a PERFECT boat does not mean the intended goal of the purchaser is to have that perfect boat. It is a means (or baseline) of evaluation only.

Once the evaluation is done and the item purchased the new owner could be quite happy not painting (for example) and will have your "driver". Whatever the intended destiny from the new owner it does not change the value of the utopian boat or the market value for purchase negotiations.

Greg Guimond
07-15-2014, 01:41 PM
So is the boat really for sale? If it is, where the heck is the advertisement with the asking price? :confused: Awfully hard to sell a rare boat without "getting it out there" I would think.

It would also be cool to have the ad in the archives just for BS Hornet history a few years down the line.

Ghost
07-15-2014, 02:09 PM
Good call Ghost.

I'm assuming that the intent for purchase is to use the boat and not part it out. Also, just because the value is based upon a PERFECT boat does not mean the intended goal of the purchaser is to have that perfect boat. It is a means (or baseline) of evaluation only.

Once the evaluation is done and the item purchased the new owner could be quite happy not painting (for example) and will have your "driver". Whatever the intended destiny from the new owner it does not change the value of the utopian boat or the market value for purchase negotiations.

Gotcha. I'm with you part way, but diverge slightly. I agree that the intended destiny does not change the value of the utopian boat. Where I differ is that I believe the intended destiny absolutely can change the market value of the boat for purchase negotiations.

If there are zero people who are interested in paying to get to the utopian boat, clearly the utopian boat resto cost doesn't enter into the market math at all. (Other than as an influence on the seller's perception. And of course, with zero buyers ever matching that perception, the boat will sit unsold until that seller perception changes.) The more people there are with any serious interest in paying to reach the utopian boat, the more that complete resto math matters. There just aren't many of those people around right now. I'd wager most people (despite the fact that they'd love to HAVE the perfectly restored boat) have no willingness to part with the $$$ to get there. Which means they're almost ALL shopping for some form of a runner, and that the runner math is probably FAR more of a driver of the market.

All of which leads back to our original discussion of how small a market we live in. In that sense, nobody should be too shocked at how much one person was, or was not, willing to part with for a given boat. It varies WIDELY based on the specifics of what any particular buyer and seller want, right?

I suppose one other factor that merits mention is uncertainty. Looking at a bristol boat that's already been restored is very different from shopping for a potential project. The tradeoff is having it your way if you do a project. But that comes with great uncertainty both in time before you can use it, as well as in cost.

gcarter
07-15-2014, 02:37 PM
So, there's obviously a shortage of folks that live in our known world w/expendable funds to buy their dream boat.
But there's lots of folks w/lots of money to (I'll use the term loosely) "invest" in many other collectable objects. Just look at the auction reporting in the "Sports Car Market" magazine.
Also, there have been a number of successful sales to European buyers, where, these boats are really rare and somewhat desirable. I mentioned to another member trying to sell his boat to consider advertising in "Robb Report" or some other publication which is distributed internationally.

gcarter
07-15-2014, 02:51 PM
Another thing I'd consider would be an interesting vintage sports car or vintage motorcycle(s). Either of which would be far easier to sell. For the right person, it might be a trade they'd consider.
For me, a series 1-1/2 E-Type Jag coupe, or MB 280-SL Pagoda.
As far as bikes go, nice '50 or so Vincent Rapide (Black Shadows have been priced out of the atmosphere), one, or more of several MV's, a couple of very nice Squareials, etc.

Sweet Cheekz
07-15-2014, 03:42 PM
George
did you start talking chinese all of a sudden?

FYI Ill take an Aston Martin Vanquish in trade if anyone is interested :)


Oh Yeah and another thing. Scott paints a pretty nice boat from what I saw on the pumpkin:yes:
Parnell

gcarter
07-15-2014, 03:45 PM
George
did you start talking chinese all of a sudden?

:):):)
Parnell, I promise some here know what I'm talking about.

duckhunter
07-15-2014, 04:31 PM
George
did you start talking chinese all of a sudden?

FYI Ill take an Aston Martin Vanquish in trade if anyone is interested :)


Oh Yeah and another thing. Scott paints a pretty nice boat from what I saw on the pumpkin:yes:
Parnell

How 'bout a 95 Jeep Wrangler hardtop? I'll even throw in the CB and gun rack. We can swap keys at Chatt. :)

Interesting discussion; the only thing missing is a Super Strangler. It all boils down to the right boat for the right guy at the right time, and the "market value" is whatever it ends up selling for at that point in time. The perceived valuation by the owner is a good starting point, but the one that counts is the value to the guy with cash in-hand.

Trying to put a magic formula together seems to be an entertaining exercise in mental masturbation. At the end of the day, the market is just too small and the products too varied to establish any kind of demand curve or pricing formula. Anecdotal sales are educational, but I wouldn't depend on them as my only valuation tool.

woobs
07-15-2014, 05:09 PM
So, there's obviously a shortage of folks that live in our known world w/expendable funds to buy their dream boat.

Two weekends ago my best friend bought a brand new Mastercraft X2 ski / wakeboard boat. It was the seventh (7th) of this model sold since the beginning of June by that one marina in a single location. They sold quite a few other models too. (well it is Muskoka)

The X2 boats are $ 115,000 +++ each.
80170

I don't believe there is "no cash" out there for buying boats. I believe there is a VERY small market out there for old performance boats. By and large that market is enthusiasts driven. The market subset of enthusiasts that have this level of resources for this type of boat (50K - 60K) is even smaller...those currently in the market... miniscule.

We talk about the "right" buyer but in reality that buyer probably already knows about this boat. Economics 101; Even a rare boat (i.e. low supply) with a miniscule market (i.e. even lower demand) means the seller better be talking to the one or two qualified buyers and not drawing a line in the sand but considering offers.

The more the seller moves (from the rumoured ask of 40K) the larger the qualified buyer list gets. An abundance of ego, sentimentality, stubbornness or other such factors (by buyer or seller) will surely condemn this boat to rot. Speculation and support of a perceived high value (when we ALL know the after purchase costs involved) because it's a cool boat, only fuels the myth and reduces the chances for a deal (and rescue of another classic).

Of course as was said before...if someone with resources "wants it" it may sell for an obscene amount but, that's an anomaly.

mattyboy
07-15-2014, 05:37 PM
not sure if it is fishy or urban legend getting thrown into the mix but mis- information is out there I can tell you the hull has been refinished touched up or treated since I last saw the boat some 10-12 years ago.


As far people go that have glass, body work and gel/ paint and knowledge/Talent and knowledge of the benchseat and it issues that I would take as gospel, I can count on one hand Pearson is one of them.

The pic in the water was taken in 2001-2002


the pic on the stands just this year


Not saying anyone is doing this on purpose it just happens with these boats the stories get larger and the real info gets lost or mixed up over time.

Greg Guimond
07-15-2014, 07:27 PM
This is good as it's raining like mad outside. The BS Hornet is probably not even really for sale with no ad and no price. Shortly it may be known as the BullSh-t Hornet :eek:
On the other end of the spectrum most of the high end ski and wake board boats get bought using the 'ol book of the month club because there is easy loan financing. As was stated several times before a buyer for the BS Hornet has to write a check for say $20k and then write another check for $50k. Then they will have a show stopper with $70k spent and will sell it 5 years later for $35k.

It's a lot simpler, financially hedged and far less time consuming to buy either Parnell's GT-21 or Mr. Carter's TR for $40,000 and be out on the water with a grin the next weekend :yippie:

You know exactly what you bought and the quality of the work that was done. You'll also have a turn key dialed in fast boat.

joseph m. hahnl
07-15-2014, 09:32 PM
You certainly can not compare the practicality of competition ski boat to a performance boat. But I get both points that were made, there are people willing to spend a high amount of money with the help of an interest charge:biggrin.:
OMG is that lettering butt ugly:spit:http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=80171&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1405089633 (http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=80171&d=1405460148) you can take $10,000 of the utopian boat for removal of kindergarten graffiti on the transom:rofl:

woobs
07-15-2014, 09:34 PM
Actually, my friend paid cash.

Greg Guimond
07-15-2014, 09:41 PM
The pic in the water was taken in 2001-2002. the pic on the stands just this year

Matty, the picture of Pizazz on the stands you refer to was taken this year at Performance Marine's location?

Conquistador_del_mar
07-15-2014, 09:53 PM
OMG is that lettering butt ugly:spit:

+1
Is that some sort of joke lettering? If it isn't, I don't get it.

Rob M
07-15-2014, 09:53 PM
Nice boat! Always really liked the look of this one in that colour scheme.

10 years ago this thread would have been silent while would be buyers were working behind the scene to lock this down. Different times - the GFC in 2008 took a lot of action out of the discretionary boat purchase market.

Amazing to me that Wa-Lo, Pzazz!, the Blue/Gold V-Drive Corsican and several other boats so coveted a decade ago have come up for sale and have had trouble moving.

CDMA
07-15-2014, 09:59 PM
Best Donzi thread in a LONG time.

Scott Pearson
07-16-2014, 07:09 AM
Greg, yes that picture was taken at Performance in the last few weeks.

undertaker
07-16-2014, 08:45 AM
CDMA is in the house :)

mattyboy
07-16-2014, 09:29 AM
CDMA who????? ;)



names and lettering is just the owners touch on their boat and PZAZZ was in one family for a long time. the name must have some meaning to them , the other boat in the family had a name that matched the colors of the boat and the "small" family bakery business. So yes names are personal as is style .

fastfun2
07-17-2014, 09:11 AM
Some pretty class-less posts on this thread in my opinion.

Here's a thought, don't like the asking price? Don't buy it. Don't like the paint or the name? Don't buy it. IF this was one of YOUR boats for sale and a thread was started bashing it, you would be furious. Now I am in the same boat (pun intended) as Jason, I get nothing out of the sale. That being said I have grown up with this boat at our shop and spent many hours in it. The paint job is a very solid job, don't believe me, come look at it. Is it a show room piece? No. Is it a 1968 boat, yes. The rigging is immaculate and done by one the best offshore riggers to ever live, the same guy who built the 427 side oiler that's in it, the same multi-world champion who designed a lot of motors for HM. If this boat doesn't have pedigree, I don't know what does. I can tell you offering the owner half the asking price wont get you anywhere, and neither will running down his boat.

Scott Pearson
07-17-2014, 09:38 AM
What is the actual asking price?

gcarter
07-17-2014, 10:38 AM
What is the actual asking price?


According to the other site; $40K, and firm as it's needed for pending medical needs.

woobs
07-17-2014, 11:04 AM
Some pretty class-less posts on this thread in my opinion.

Nice that you can express an opinion here. That's because this is a place where discussions and opinions are supposed to be. Not to mention getting (or giving) advice, sharing stories or just uploading pictures and videos... all with a DONZI or boating theme and with people that KNOW these boats.

Now, since I have never seen a post here (or anywhere for that matter) advertising this particular BS Hornet it's a pretty hard line to say a discussion around it is off limits. If it was posted for sale here, I would agree it would be poor form to comment publicly. On the other hand, a forum member did start a discussion of the value of such a boat so, it's all good. What better place to have that discussion and hear others views on how to value such a low volume "collectable" boat.

Being a small and knowledgeable community it's natural that some here would know exactly which boat was being discussed. I'm always amazed at how the enthusiasts here keep track of (and had experience with) so many... which brings us to the particulars of THIS BS Hornet. Yep, it's a low volume survivor with a great pedigree.

I don't think I've heard anyone "bash" anything. Honest opinions have been given in a discussion situation and for each person they are valid. You, however say you "get nothing" out of this but, in truth you have skin in the game as the person wrenching this boat so it goes to your reputation or that of your shop. Despite this your opinion is welcome... it just does not hold any more weight than anyone else's.

Your insight into what will and will not buy this boat are interesting too as I'm sure the owner has discussed this with you fully. I'm sure there was an entire flow chart of what if's that you discussed at length. That's great but, it doesn't really change the world now does it? The owner may cling to his asking price (if anyone knew what it was) an let the boat rot. It's happened before. Or he may succumb to the market and his particular situation. Or he may find the right guy that steps up and lays down just to get this rare boat.

Clearly, there is interest in this boat. nobody is running it down. There are some varying ideas of what it is worth and they have been expressed. Some explanations have been given to support those value ideas and in the end the market will dictate if or what it sells for. We all hope that the seller gets near what he's asking (as it's good for the marque) but, that does not mean we don't have a different opinion of what in reality might happen. (BTW, eBay which is an open market, says this boat is worth $9,800 and the owner did not agree).

Lastly, while opinions on all things Donzi are welcomed here... opinions on the membership of this board are actually in bad taste. While I don't agree with some opinions it in no way devalues the respect with which I hold our community members. So please keep the "class-less" comments to yourself.

jl1962
07-17-2014, 11:28 AM
As I stated (several pages ago :rolleyes:). I think it's a good time to let the market work.

At this point, I think the boat is being quietly shopped - hence no formal advertisement. I also think the first and second owners want no part of an internet feeding frenzy - hard to blame them. So much for the "quiet" part. However if you are an enthusiast for this type of classic boat (or iconic '60s motorized cool), you probably know about it, or will soon.

I think we can all agree that this is a cool, rare and largely original old Donzi with a great pedigree and a lot of sentimental value. Let's remember "sentimental value" is what keeps a '66 'Vette from being a used car......Replacement value is probably 6 figures and scrap value is probably 4 figures. The actual value is likely somewhere in the middle.

It's perfectly fair to have a discussion, but let's not get personal and respect/remember that the peanut gallery here is just that - at some point, it will come down to the ultimate buyer and seller.

Once again, I wish them well and hope for a good outcome for both parties, for the boat and for old Donzi enthusiasts like myself.

Peace (and FWIW, I happen to like the lettering :cool:)

smidgen too
07-17-2014, 03:00 PM
What is the actual asking price?


The asking price is 40K. Bob wanted me to post a ad for this Donzi & I said OK but would need more info & pic;s. Bob said Jason would take some pic's & get more info on it, when he could find extra time that was about 3 weeks ago. Jason has a business to run & has been very busy trying to launch boats, keeping his customers happy & getting all the Donzi info. In the mean time much has leak out [ for good or bad ] before I could get the ad placed. It's STILL A ONE OWNER DONZI, Chris has the title in his name , Bob is the seller. There may be some room on the asking price, but not much. Here are some new pic's I just revived, take a look. As they say pictures are worth a 1000 words. Mark

Carl C
07-17-2014, 03:49 PM
Good thread for sure! While I choose not to name a smaller boat, I use "little yellow Donzi" for VHF ID, I think the lettering looks OK. But that doesn't matter because a new owner will no doubt rename it even if that supposedly is bad luck. I do have one concern though. Isn't a V drive an inefficient drive as it always pushes the bow downward? What would be the top speed potential of this boat with decent power? I ask that understanding that many people are happy with 60-65 mph. I just wonder what the potential here is as a speedboat with no ability to trim the drive.

bertsboat
07-17-2014, 07:16 PM
If Scott was with us (and he may well be) he would bring this whole thread down, him being a lover of Hornets. He had one if I remember correctly and he really wanted to get that boat fixed up. Scott, we miss you!


Some pretty class-less posts on this thread in my opinion.

Here's a thought, don't like the asking price? Don't buy it. Don't like the paint or the name? Don't buy it. IF this was one of YOUR boats for sale and a thread was started bashing it, you would be furious. Now I am in the same boat (pun intended) as Jason, I get nothing out of the sale. That being said I have grown up with this boat at our shop and spent many hours in it. The paint job is a very solid job, don't believe me, come look at it. Is it a show room piece? No. Is it a 1968 boat, yes. The rigging is immaculate and done by one the best offshore riggers to ever live, the same guy who built the 427 side oiler that's in it, the same multi-world champion who designed a lot of motors for HM. If this boat doesn't have pedigree, I don't know what does. I can tell you offering the owner half the asking price wont get you anywhere, and neither will running down his boat.

smidgen too
07-17-2014, 07:45 PM
Good thread for sure! While I choose not to name a smaller boat, I use "little yellow Donzi" for VHF ID, I think the lettering looks OK. But that doesn't matter because a new owner will no doubt rename it even if that supposedly is bad luck. I do have one concern though. Isn't a V drive an inefficient drive as it always pushes the bow downward? What would be the top speed potential of this boat with decent power? I ask that understanding that many people are happy with 60-65 mph. I just wonder what the potential here is as a speedboat with no ability to trim the drive.

If I recall correctly the Gold Cup Hydro's don't have power trim, nor do Jersey skiffs & they run pretty good. Top speed,,, faster than I would want to go in a 40+ year old classic.

1996Z15
07-17-2014, 08:32 PM
If I recall correctly the Gold Cup Hydro's don't have power trim, nor do Jersey skiffs & they run pretty good. Top speed,,, faster than I would want to go in a 40+ year old classic.

Skiffs actually do have a trim plate across the transom; a friend of mine used to race one and he showed me how it works.

Carl C
07-17-2014, 09:00 PM
If I recall correctly the Gold Cup Hydro's don't have power trim, nor do Jersey skiffs & they run pretty good. Top speed,,, faster than I would want to go in a 40+ year old classic.

Unlimited hydroplanes aren't a fair comparison since they literally fly across the water surface. IDK about Jersey Skiffs. There are some very fast low freeboard, open engine, old school v-drives. I wonder how the Donzi would compare to them.

woobs
07-17-2014, 09:28 PM
Gold Cup racers aren't all hydros. these have a fixed drive. One reproduction that I have run with can do high 50's.

mattyboy
07-17-2014, 11:02 PM
the early test hornet topped 70 mph, in production with turbo charged power the factory guaranteed 60 mph which was a big deal in 1965



http://www.lgdonziclassic.net/pdfs/bench.pdf

fast fun 2
07-17-2014, 11:09 PM
The asking price is 40K. Bob wanted me to post a ad for this Donzi & I said OK but would need more info & pic;s. Bob said Jason would take some pic's & get more info on it, when he could find extra time that was about 3 weeks ago. Jason has a business to run & has been very busy trying to launch boats, keeping his customers happy & getting all the Donzi info. In the mean time much has leak out [ for good or bad ] before I could get the ad placed. It's STILL A ONE OWNER DONZI, Chris has the title in his name , Bob is the seller. There may be some room on the asking price, but not much. Here are some new pic's I just revived, take a look. As they say pictures are worth a 1000 words. Mark
Emailed Bobby those pics a few days ago, let me know if youd like more!

Johnny

Greg Guimond
07-17-2014, 11:10 PM
So we have an asking price finally ........ $40,000
We have a rough and tough speed ........ 60mph
We have a mint restoration cost ........... $50,000

May the boating gods create a proper match :yes:

smidgen too
07-17-2014, 11:35 PM
Emailed Bobby those pics a few days ago, let me know if youd like more!

Johnny

Johnny Can you take a few pic's of the interior ? I will be in St Clair next week for the race running in the US-1 Scarab pace boat hope to see your Saris race team there. Mark

smidgen too
07-17-2014, 11:39 PM
the early test hornet topped 70 mph, in production with turbo charged power the factory guaranteed 60 mph which was a big deal in 1965



http://www.lgdonziclassic.net/pdfs/bench.pdf

Thanks for posting. With today's high tech props you might be able to get more speed out of that same Hornet ?

mattyboy
07-17-2014, 11:57 PM
Thanks for posting. With today's high tech props you might be able to get more speed out of that same Hornet ?


the hornet 19 is a wide flat bottom vee 19 degree deadrise almost 8 feet wide I would imagine the attack angle on a 7 litre big block boat and the v drive running gear would be kind of flat will ride well in bigger water. Most of the benchseat hornets were v drive they did make some as I/O .

I am not a prop guru on a v drive but I would imagine it can be tweaked to gain a few mph . they said a non turbo boat 7 litre would run mid 50s. my updated 68 sbf volvo 280t runs balls to the wall and just makes 50 in the right conditions with about 240ish HP. with a 225 or 235 HM motor and a 250 I would bet you would be lucky to see 45 with the prop tech in the 1960s.

gonna need to know how the v drive is setup to see what kind of prop would be needed

Lenny
07-18-2014, 03:00 AM
getting deeply into it, Scott P , I am glad that you are as passionate about these things as I.


THAT, is what is important, it's what we all want, what we all cherish, and hopefully many will for years yet to come...

You have some nice ones. :)

Thank you for making them your own, restoring them, and thank you for preserving the breed.

You do nice work.

:

Carl C
07-18-2014, 07:23 AM
70 mph is not too shabby. Scott Pearson does indeed know how to get these done properly and fairly quickly. We are all looking for something different in our boats. I have $100,000 into my 22 not including any repair or maintenance cost. That Hornet is not for me but for someone who is able to restore it and enjoys that kind of work the end result would Well be worth having $90,000 into. Assuming that said person plans on keeping and enjoying the boat. I plan to keep mine for a long time.

Woobs, the one boat in your pic is called "Hornet". :)

olredalert
07-19-2014, 12:02 AM
----I think that the crazy factor is finally starting to wind down here, and that's a good thing. But,,,Greg,,,how in the world can you just arbitrarily put a cost of $50,000 on top of the cost of the boat, whatever that may end up to be, for restoration? 1st, Scott said he had no idea about the stringers and the gas tank other than prior problems he has seen and dealt with. 2nd, many of us that I have talked to in reference to this boat don't really want or need the perfection of a "Scott Pearson" restoration, as beautiful as that might be. He has told us about the quality of the paint, period. This boat has hardly ever been left in the water overnight and yet you and others say it needs complete stringer replacement. Just maybe it doesn't! Also, I would be willing, with a bit of exploration to buy in to the drive train being good or better than good. It sure sounds like it is. Furthermore, I know that pictures sometimes lie as I have been in the classic car business for over forty years, but the pictures surely make a compelling argument to at least go look at the boat. Something you haven't done, by the way. And lastly, If the hull paint has a few gacks in it and I want the boat to be a bit prettier than it already is, I flat guarantee you that I can get a very acceptable paint job on the hull (not counting the deck as it really looks to nice to paint) for less than $10,000. I got the hull sides and transom painted on my El Pescador for $900 (albeit a few years ago), and nobody seems to think its ugly (won best of show in Sarasota several years ago). No, it wont be an "SP" paint job nor a paint job like my Fino has, which I will gladly put up against anything, anytime, but it will look pretty damn good for years. Im actually a bit tired of chasing perfection as it just makes me nervous, so a "good" paint job would be just fine with me. This sounds a lot like Im calling you out, but Im really not. I just would like to balance things out a bit. I hope you understand..........Bill S

Greg Guimond
07-19-2014, 07:33 AM
Good point Bill on balancing opinions.

My $50,000 restore cost was not arbitrary though. I said it was to bring the boat to a notch below George Carter-Scott Pearson like restorations, a level (9) show boat not a "daily driver". IMO getting the boat to a level 9 for only $50k would be an achievement regardless of what the boat's base sales price ends up being negotiated down from the $40,000 the current owner has listed the BS Hornet at.

Costs for stuff adds up very, very fast as we all know :frown:

woobs
07-19-2014, 10:14 AM
IMO getting the boat to a level 9 for only $50k would be an achievement regardless of what the boat's base sales price ends up being

I think you're right Greg.

Then, consider this boat has been out of the water for 10 years and I don't think that did it any good no matter how it was stored. Let's keep in mind that this is NOT like a classic car restoration where if you break down on the side of the road you call AAA/CAA to come with a flatbed. There's real safety issues with the condition fuel tanks/systems, wiring and loss of structural integrity to name a few. Even without all the cosmetic facelift stuff, just going through all the systems/structures to ensure reliability and safety is a big number.

I don't know many that would go to all that work and not improve the cosmetics while they are there but, it does not have to be a show boat to eat the bank account quickly.

This is the flaw in the "clean survivor" boat argument. A 46 year old boat, out of use for 10 years requires a lot of attention. Instead of comparing it to a car... compare it to an airplane that has been out of service for 10 years. Now get out your pencil.

Here's a "restored" woodyboat that had an old tank...

80206

mattyboy
07-19-2014, 11:12 AM
I haven't seen the boat in a decade, but I have come to the conclusion if this boat has all the pedigree the records will show exactly what has been and when it was done. The buyer will have to look at the boat and the pedigree and accept it then pay the selling price. where the boat goes from there who knows what the new owner has planned for the boat.

Knowing these boats as well as I do it may only need minimal $$ to become a reliable safe daily driver or the new owner may have a show boat in mind.

but if we take what has been said about condition and rigging i would think that there will not be a lot of money needed in what most money is spent on in a total resto again depending on the new owner maybe the v drive and side oiler may be on the list to get yanked and an ilmor 750 and drive is going in the 50k is not going to cut the cake.


pictures are subjective they maybe worth a 1000 words but they often don't tell the whole 1500 word story . But this is all smoke and mirrors on the web . The buyer will have to have eyes on the boat and make that personal decision is it a boat for me at a price for me.

well mine increased in value 3 fold yesterday a sunny day off out on the lake with my girl and my wife ( my value may decrease after this post) ;)
pulled in for lunch as was the hit on the docks with all the bikers there,

priceless

good luck wishing all the best in the sale and health to all involved


guess i can't take pics of the deck anymore the windshieldectomy has left scars note to self no deck shots anymore

Greg Guimond
07-20-2014, 03:26 PM
I got 10 hours of sunshine and laid down 225 nautical miles on the same day as Matty. Probably one of the few "10" days we've had so far this year. Even with all that sun, I'm having a hard time seeing $40,000 paid for the BS Hornet when someone can pay the same and have the turnkey GT-21 below and be boating in a day.


Only time will tell I guess......... :salute:

woobs
07-20-2014, 03:30 PM
100% agree! and not just any GT-21... A FANTASTIC GT-21!

Even with all that sun, I'm having a hard time seeing $40,000 paid for the BS Hornet when someone can pay the same and have the turnkey GT-21 below and be boating in a day.

Only time will tell I guess......... :salute:

olredalert
07-20-2014, 06:23 PM
----Greg,,,You keep pushing all my buttons (not in a bad way). Parnells 21 is a piece of artwork. We all know that, and someone will come along and pay him what he wants or close to it. But,,,Its not an original GT-21, its a modified GT-21. That, in itself isn't even close to being a bad thing, but you really cant equate the two side by side. Two completely different sub-groups of Donzi lovers here. And I have to add that the bench seat will be turnkey when delivered to its new owner. Im a bit sad that you consider it unusable as it is when that just isn't true......Bill S

Greg Guimond
07-20-2014, 08:40 PM
----Greg,,,You keep pushing all my buttons (not in a bad way). Parnells 21 is a piece of artwork. We all know that, and someone will come along and pay him what he wants or close to it. But,,,Its not an original GT-21, its a modified GT-21. That, in itself isn't even close to being a bad thing, but you really cant equate the two side by side. Two completely different sub-groups of Donzi lovers here. And I have to add that the bench seat will be turnkey when delivered to its new owner. Im a bit sad that you consider it unusable as it is when that just isn't true......Bill S

Sorry to be doing that and as I think it through, I'm a dope and you are correct. One is stock and original and the other is a resto-mod so completely different worlds. Also, given I have built a resto-mod Bench Seat I should know that difference even more. I also did not realize that the BS Hornet would be a turnkey "daily driver" upon delivery to the new owner.

:bonk:

Sweet Cheekz
07-21-2014, 06:49 PM
Id add that if the potential buyer just doesnt like the boat for any reason than spending 20-50k hard earned dollars for a boat is a bad investment. Just cause its a good boat at a good price doesnt make it the right boat for eveyone.
To pay this kind of money for a boat that doesnt just blow you away is silly. Small buyers group indeed
Greg On a side note thanks for the endorsement :)

Parnell

johnnywhale
07-21-2014, 10:40 PM
It probably isn't, but somebody might want to investigate this:

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/boa/4579853302.html

Let us know!

Scott Pearson
07-22-2014, 10:58 AM
Sold!

Greg Guimond
07-22-2014, 11:02 AM
Sold!

So you bought the 22 "raceboat"? Will we have to wait two years for pictures and will it cost $50k to restore? :)

Scott Pearson
07-22-2014, 11:36 AM
It's my old boat. I will post pictures here later. I'm pretty excited!

duckhunter
07-22-2014, 11:38 AM
It's my old boat. I will post pictures here later. I'm pretty excited!

Awesome, congrats!

Scott Pearson
07-22-2014, 11:44 AM
Thanks!!! Been wanting this one back for 26 years!

Greg Guimond
07-22-2014, 11:49 AM
Thanks!!! Been wanting this one back for 26 years!

Wow, that is very cool, and it was in your back yard. Congrats. :yes:

Scott Pearson
07-22-2014, 11:53 AM
Crazy thing is that' it was in Maine until 4 years ago.

Conquistador_del_mar
07-22-2014, 12:03 PM
Thanks!!! Been wanting this one back for 26 years!

There is something almost magical about buying one of your old boats years later - especially if you have great memories attached to it.

Morgan's Cloud
07-22-2014, 12:49 PM
OK , not surprisingly , I'm a bit confused . The ad said '22 foot 2 seater'

Should it have read 19' or is it a special 22 ? ?

BUIZILLA
07-22-2014, 12:50 PM
turbo Criterion?

Morgan's Cloud
07-22-2014, 01:15 PM
turbo Criterion?



Sputter , coffee out of nostrils , wha , what ? SP once owned a boat that was less than 45 years old ? ? :biggrin.:

Scott Pearson
07-22-2014, 01:45 PM
Hahaha.... Yes it's a 1979 . Criterion II.

Turbos are long gone.

johnnywhale
07-22-2014, 01:53 PM
Thanks!!! Been wanting this one back for 26 years!

Really? I figured it was a clapped out Glastron or something.

Scott Pearson
07-22-2014, 02:18 PM
Ok, So she needs a complete restoration but its all there. I haven't seen this boat since the mid 80's when I owned her. Always kicked myself in the ass for getting rid of it and have always wondered when it would show up...and hoping it would at some point.

I have to say that I have never been so happy and excited about buying a boat....Best day I have had in a very long time!


Here are a few pictures.

mattyboy
07-22-2014, 02:31 PM
did ya check the bar could be like a 50 yr old bottle of scotch in there.

congrats must be nice to finally have her back

Scott Pearson
07-22-2014, 02:42 PM
No booze in there...I checked! There is a dead squirrel in the glove box opening!!!

Morgan's Cloud
07-22-2014, 02:49 PM
Wowsa ! There was so few of those made in all of the different versions that I'm seriously wondering if that was the brochure boat that had John Chisholm in it .

I hope you've got a whole lotta gauges on hand in case of replacement .

Scott Pearson
07-22-2014, 02:53 PM
Wowsa ! There was so few of those made in all of the different versions that I'm seriously wondering if that was the brochure boat that had John Chisholm in it .

I hope you've got a whole lotta gauges on hand in case of replacement .

Yes, as far as I know this is the brochure boat.

Morgan's Cloud
07-22-2014, 02:54 PM
did ya check the bar could be like a 50 yr old bottle of scotch in there.




I like the way you think :biggrin.: :drunk:

mike o
07-22-2014, 02:55 PM
Dont let "you know" who see "that" squirrel :kingme:

Morgan's Cloud
07-22-2014, 02:58 PM
Yes, as far as I know this is the brochure boat. Its Hull #01.



Well ! I hope I impressed someone with that little jewel .. Not just another pretty face ya know .. lol

Now , back to the search for that 50 yr old scotch with Matty .

Scott Pearson
07-22-2014, 03:00 PM
Sorry...I think its the 1st Criterion II built. Not hull #1....Thats Cliffs Criterion. Seems there is no line card for this boat. :hangum:

Scott Pearson
07-22-2014, 03:07 PM
Dont let "you know" who see "that" squirrel :kingme:

Your right!!! I better get that out of there before Tammy sees it!! We will have a full on burial here in Howell!

mario
07-22-2014, 03:08 PM
great looking boat any pic when it had the turbos on it will you keep it a trs boat scott

Scott Pearson
07-22-2014, 03:12 PM
Going to keep it all original. Yes...Keeping it a TRS. I will have to locate some Turbos also.

Sweet Cheekz
07-22-2014, 06:05 PM
Congrats
Looking forward to seeing her redone.
Parnell

mattyboy
07-23-2014, 07:23 AM
Damn so distracted finding a 22 dpx down the street then this turns up in my backyard
.

only kidding congrats glad you got your old boat back now you own one of every benchseat Donzi they ever made . We will call that the Benchseat triple crown.


so what will be next the 18 grand slam I mean you are only 2 boats away from having every 18 they made just need to get the chicken boat back and pick up an x 18.

OR you could pick up another Hornet II and III and fill out a Hornet grand slam.

you my friend have issues LOL

can't wait to see it returned to glory

Greg Guimond
07-23-2014, 07:33 AM
Start a new thread and this time as the resto progresses add to the same thread (like Mr. Carter) instead of a bunch of new ones. Makes it easier to keep track of what's going on :yes:

olredalert
07-23-2014, 09:50 AM
----Mucho congratulations, Scott!!!,,,Im sure that was one of Johns personal Criterions. I remember it from 188th street. If Im not mistaken it had a power operated bar that went up electricly. lm not sure how long he used it before someone snapped it up but it wasn't long.

----Same exact vinyl that is in Chip Millers "Bill Ford" Critter. Almost looks like it could be saved. I saw Chips last weekend at Marks racers reunion and he was able to save it all. Must be pretty heavy duty stuff........Bill S

Scott Pearson
07-23-2014, 10:29 AM
Damn so distracted finding a 22 dpx down the street then this turns up in my backyard
.

only kidding congrats glad you got your old boat back now you own one of every benchseat Donzi they ever made . We will call that the Benchseat triple crown.


so what will be next the 18 grand slam I mean you are only 2 boats away from having every 18 they made just need to get the chicken boat back and pick up an x 18.

OR you could pick up another Hornet II and III and fill out a Hornet grand slam.

you my friend have issues LOL

can't wait to see it returned to glory

No...I'm done...this is it. I will be dead before I can get to all of them. Once I'm gone you have to deal with Tammy for all my crap...I feel bad for her once she needs to deal with that.

Scott Pearson
07-23-2014, 10:32 AM
Greg..You got it.

Bill...Yes I'm pretty sure this is the boat. Shame there is no line card for it. The interior can be saved, maybe just needs the foam replaced in the bottom cushions. Chips boat looks amazing!

mattyboy
07-23-2014, 11:07 AM
No...I'm done...this is it. I will be dead before I can get to all of them. Once I'm gone you have to deal with Tammy for all my crap...I feel bad for her once she needs to deal with that.
Not to worry Tammy and I have it all planned out ;)

gcarter
07-23-2014, 11:18 AM
Scott, I'm glad it's you doing this. I don't have another one in me.
I'm moving on to other things.

duckhunter
07-23-2014, 11:23 AM
Scott, I'm glad it's you doing this. I don't have another one in me.
I'm moving on to other things.

That briefs well, but in six months you're going to start peeking at craigslist and the classifieds "just browsing" for another project. :biggrin.:

For now enjoy the TR - it's turning out awesome!

bertsboat
07-23-2014, 12:11 PM
Scott,
I told my wife I am selling everything BEFORE I die . I told her I don't want some Ahole getting all my boats... she said "what makes you thing I am going to marry another Ahole..." :( Nice find.


No...I'm done...this is it. I will be dead before I can get to all of them. Once I'm gone you have to deal with Tammy for all my crap...I feel bad for her once she needs to deal with that.

Scott Pearson
07-23-2014, 12:54 PM
Scott,
I told my wife I am selling everything BEFORE I die . I told her I don't want some Ahole getting all my boats... she said "what makes you thing I am going to marry another Ahole..." :( Nice find.

Now thats funny....:biggrin.:

Thanks!

Conquistador_del_mar
07-23-2014, 01:02 PM
Scott, I'm glad it's you doing this. I don't have another one in me.
I'm moving on to other things.

I'm with you there George.

smidgen too
07-25-2014, 02:33 PM
Some pretty class-less posts on this thread in my opinion.

Here's a thought, don't like the asking price? Don't buy it. Don't like the paint or the name? Don't buy it. IF this was one of YOUR boats for sale and a thread was started bashing it, you would be furious. Now I am in the same boat (pun intended) as Jason, I get nothing out of the sale. That being said I have grown up with this boat at our shop and spent many hours in it. The paint job is a very solid job, don't believe me, come look at it. Is it a show room piece? No. Is it a 1968 boat, yes. The rigging is immaculate and done by one the best offshore riggers to ever live, the same guy who built the 427 side oiler that's in it, the same multi-world champion who designed a lot of motors for HM. If this boat doesn't have pedigree, I don't know what does. I can tell you offering the owner half the asking price wont get you anywhere, and neither will running down his boat.

Johnny I just talked to Bob & he said you guy's rebuilt the carb flushed & cleaned the fuel tank & did all necessary maintenance items this Donzi needed. Bob also said your Dad Jason ran it today & it rocked. I will see you in St Clair for the rest of the details. Mark

fast fun 2
09-11-2014, 09:55 AM
Johnny I just talked to Bob & he said you guy's rebuilt the carb flushed & cleaned the fuel tank & did all necessary maintenance items this Donzi needed. Bob also said your Dad Jason ran it today & it rocked. I will see you in St Clair for the rest of the details. Mark
And it ran fantastic!

Just a quick update, the boat sold for the asking price about 3 weeks ago to an extremely thrilled Donzi fan. He grew up on Lake George in the late 60s, enamored with what a cool boat it was. It will be staying 100% original and enjoyed by him and his family!

Scott Pearson
09-11-2014, 06:41 PM
So this boat sold for the asking price of 40K?

olredalert
09-11-2014, 07:21 PM
----Scott,,,The price asked had come down a bit to a more manageable figure. Still more than I was prepared to pay, but it was enough to get the job done for Bobby, Ive been told. At the end of the day the boat is staying where it lived its whole life and has an owner who apparently loves it and its history. Hopefully, a good ending for all concerned......Bill S

fast fun 2
09-11-2014, 07:25 PM
----Scott,,,The price asked had come down a bit to a more manageable figure. Still more than I was prepared to pay, but it was enough to get the job done for Bobby, Ive been told. At the end of the day the boat is staying where it lived its whole life and has an owner who apparently loves it and its history. Hopefully, a good ending for all concerned......Bill S
Well put and a good ending indeed. Happy owner, happy seller.

The sell price was a bit under 40, but not by much. It's not my business to post exact numbers, just an update on a cool old Donzi.