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JimG
06-30-2014, 07:48 AM
With the addition of my long-lost fuel gauge! Now it looks right!

mattyboy
06-30-2014, 08:55 AM
very nice

:yes:

Greg Guimond
06-30-2014, 09:15 AM
Nice! How about a shot of the entire dash layout?

JimG
06-30-2014, 09:47 AM
Greg, here is the best shot I have of the full dash... the previous owner installed a stereo (!)...

Greg Guimond
06-30-2014, 09:53 AM
Man, a stereo could have easily been hung side mount under the dash out of site. Nice looking dash.

JimG
06-30-2014, 10:06 AM
Yep, I would NEVER have done it! But, the rest of the boat was so nice and original that we have endured it! We rarely even turn it on...the music comes out the stern!!

CHACHI
06-30-2014, 12:02 PM
Love the H/M sticker on the transom.

Ken

JimG
03-29-2015, 09:36 AM
Bringing up an old thread... I am trying to get my new old fuel gauge working. I cannot find a wiring diagram for it, (it is an ancient steel-cased Teleflex with only two studs and no light.) I have no idea if I have the correct sender.

Does the tank have to be grounded to the panel? The wire is there, but does not seem to have any effect.

If anyone has an original panel like above, could you take a peek for me? Thanks!!!

mattyboy
03-29-2015, 09:48 AM
Jim
my old stewart warners were 2 lug usually the new stuff is 3 lug I G and S Ignition Ground and Sender on a two lug they are I and S and the ground is picked up by the case thru the panel

either way the ground on the boat should be common to the tank ,panel and engine block the tank ground should also be run up to the collar of the fuel fill

I will see if I have the two lug gauges to see if they help


also some of the older HM setups worked on lower voltage there was a voltage regulator on the panel does your panel have that?

mattyboy
03-29-2015, 10:30 AM
Jim

couldn't find the gauges just the brackets. you need 12 volts and a ground at the gauge and a ground for the sender at the tank. the gauge is a current meter and reads the current thru a variable resistance to ground.

on the gauge if it is grounded and you put 12 volts on the Ignition lug then ground the sender lead any gauge should peg .


here is the bracket on a two lug gauge the SW use the connection lugs as the mounting lugs as well not sure if the teleflex do that

you see the lugs are isolated from the bracket ground the bracket has a spring leg on the side to ground the case and the end of the bracket has teeth to dig into the panel and pick up the panel ground

mattyboy
03-29-2015, 10:53 AM
Jim

this is what I have on the HM panel

remember most of the early classics had no electric fuel gauges they were site glasses


hope this helps

JimG
03-29-2015, 01:08 PM
Matty, there was a voltage regulator on the oil pressure gauge only. I removed it. No vr on the fuel gauge. Oh and I think the fuel gauge was standard by 1970 on the 18.

mattyboy
03-29-2015, 01:21 PM
ok

the sender in the tank sends current to ground thru a varister ( changing ohm reading that must match the gauge) and usually the tank is grounded

so as resistance to ground decreases the current increases making the gauge move

I would connect the ground at the tank and see what happens

also thinking about it if the gauge has no light in it it doesn't really need a ground , my old SW gauges had slits in the case that would backlight the gauge so there was a light bulb near the gauge and would pickup the light thru the slit in the case . so you just need 12v on one lug and a matching sender connected to ground on the other.

mattyboy
03-30-2015, 09:33 AM
the section on fuel systems in this manual explain how to test the gauge and the sender, the specs may be different on the older gauge but today the 240 ohm empty 33 ohm full is pretty standard

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/pdfs/Teleflex/TMTechCat-Instruments%28v4_0%29Tech_Reference.pdf

boatnut
04-05-2015, 12:04 PM
Jim, we have exactly the same panel and gauges on our '69 H&M 18. I just disconnected the gauge wires at the tank sending unit and I believe one side of the gauge is 12V (ign) and the other side runs to the sending unit. There is also a ground wire on one of the sending unit mount screws grounding the tank. So the result is the gauge gets to ground through the variable resistor in the sending unit. When I get back to the boat I will confirm this. I want to replace the amp gauge with a voltmeter, much more information and I do not want to run charging current all the way to the dash and through the amp gauge and back. I assumed this style of Teleflex gauges were not available anymore -- do you know of any sources? We will likely just go with a non-matching voltmeter gauge for now. My '67 18 had a sight meter and the 69 has a fuel gauge so the transition was in that timeframe.

woobs
04-05-2015, 01:00 PM
I have been working on the gauge panel restoration on my '65 Ski Sporter. However, I didn't want to shell out the big bux for a new panel when I had the original and wanted to use it. Since my boat will be using Merc power I also wanted vintage Merc gauges.

As you can see the panel was a mess. First, I tried to polish the entire panel (face and edges) but the poor quality of the casting was never meant for this and it just didn't look very good. So I took a file to the trim edges to expose some new material and have a more flat surface. Next I wet sanded through several grits and finished the edges with a polish/buffing wheel on a bench grinder. I was considering painting the face of the gauge panel but thought to sandblast it first. I liked the look and clear coated it.

Ultimately with little invested but time (and a great deal on the gauges from a Donzi community member) this is what will go in my boat.
8191881919

bertsboat
04-05-2015, 02:20 PM
Looks sweet Woobs

mattyboy
04-05-2015, 08:02 PM
very nice Woobs

68 is the model year for electronic fuel gauge as standard equipment but the HM wiring diagram that I posted doesn't show the fuel gauge.

Jim
make sure the ground at the tank is good be careful with senders that are grounded thru the screws in the sender collar with gaskets they may not get a good bond to the tank especially if it is a steel tank with corrosion . the tank should have a separate ground tab I usually have a 10-12 foot jumper cable with alligator clips to test electrical circuits. Can you get to the sender are there access panels above the tank?

Ed Donnelly
04-06-2015, 04:27 AM
Not too shabby EH Woobs...Ed

woobs
04-06-2015, 04:22 PM
Ed,
I might have to press you into service when it's "wiring time". :)

Ed Donnelly
04-06-2015, 07:32 PM
Webers for lunch each day. ( I work real slow )..Ed

mattyboy
04-09-2015, 10:06 AM
Woobs, Ed just remember red wire HOT black wire not and if you're not sure just lick it to find out ;) :shocking::shocking::shocking::shocking:but only do this if you have had more than two beers at lunch

Jim any luck?

JimG
04-09-2015, 10:28 AM
Matty, I can get to the sender through the access hole. There is a grounding lug.

Since I made the decision to put the boat in the Keels & Wheels Concours, I have not tried to troubleshoot the fuel gauge. I have been working under the hatch, repainting some pieces and doing general cleanup.

Thanks for your help!

mattyboy
04-09-2015, 10:34 AM
good luck at the show


that's good you can get to the sender, if you disconnect the lead from the sender going to the gauge at the sender and ground it with the key on the gauge should read pegged full. that will confirm the wire from the gauge to the sender is good as well as the gauge . then you have to look at the ground to the tank and sender.

pics of the 18 at the show are always good

JimG
09-01-2016, 08:39 AM
Old thread resurrection!

I FINALLY got to work on my fuel gauge. (Funny, wiggling up under the dash was easier when I was younger...lol!) Traced the ground, cleaned the connections real good and ran new 12v to the gauge. VOILA! Working vintage Teleflex fuel gauge!

Now my gauge package is complete!

Thanks Matty for all your help!

Bobby D
09-01-2016, 09:52 AM
Jim,
Well done, your dash is perfect. My old 1970 ski sporter was delivered with the same configuration and gauge package. However the Holman Moody tachometer was so far gone that it could not be restored so I went with classic Stewart Warner gauges.
Bobby

JimG
03-02-2017, 08:02 AM
Reviving an old thread for a new question. My gauge package is working great, but I think I have the wrong oil pressure sender. The sender is one the PO had for the modern gauges that were in the boat when I bought it. Oil pressure always normal with the modern gauge, 40-45 at higher rpms and dropped to 20 at hot idle. This gauge reads low. 30 at speed and almost 0 hot idle. Is there another sender I should look for?

yeller
03-03-2017, 12:00 PM
Yes. There are two types of one wire senders. One increases in resistance as the oil heats up, and one decreases. If you have the wrong one, your gauge will work in reverse, as you have found out.

I found out years ago, when I had to replace a bad sensor on my 16. I figured all sensors were the same, so rather than spend 4 x's the cash on a marine sensor, I went to the local auto store and bought one. Result was my gauge ended up working backwards. So I went to the boat shop and purchased a merc sensor and all was good.

So you need to figure out which sensor you have. Typically, the marine sensor will have a rubber jacket, but not always.

As an fyi, the temp sensors are the same and interchangeable.

yeller
03-03-2017, 12:11 PM
Oops....just reread your thread. I didn't answer your question correctly, as your gauge is operating in the same direction as before. The sensor is just a thermister that changes resistance as it heats up. It is possible you have a bad sensor. I don't know of ones with different resistance ranges, but that doesn't mean there isn't. Not sure what you have for gauges, but I'd check with the manufacturer to see what they recommend; or if they aren't in business, there's always google.

JimG
03-05-2017, 12:31 PM
Thanks Yeller! My gauges are 1970 NOS Teleflex. It is original gauge package than would have come in this boat from the factory. I lucked into a sealed boxed unit on ebay a few years back. When I bought the boat, the PO had installed aftermarket mismatched gauges. Probably new senders also. So I am looking for the sender that HM or Teleflex would have specified back in 1970.

mattyboy
03-05-2017, 09:07 PM
Teleflex senders are pretty standard a new one should work fine in my 16 I went from old hm teleflex to new teleflex gauges and used the old senders so I would guess they kept the ohm range the same

mattyboy
03-05-2017, 09:10 PM
Teleflex senders are pretty standard a new one should work fine in my 16 I went from old hm teleflex to new teleflex gauges and used the old senders so I would guess they kept the ohm range the same
Should be 33-240 ohm

mattyboy
03-06-2017, 09:03 AM
another thing to check is your electrical connections especially your ground to that gauge I just went thru that