New "Late Classic"classification from ACBS 25 year

[bertsboat]

New "late classic" classification from ACBS to include fiberglass. Class includes fiberglass boats 25 years old till the year 1975. Please read news letter and join so we can make a statement at your local boat show's. Will only help the hobby and spark interest and values of our rare and interesting boats.

http://images.production.membersuite.com/503c8d5c-0004-4096-baf1-f528d441107b/5937/503c8d5c-001c-c46e-cbaa-0b38a765e186

www.woodyboater.com.

[JimG]

Bravo!

[gcarter]

This is good news.
I didn't think I'd see it in my lifetime.

[Scott Pearson]

The LGDCC have been recognized and are marque members for about 3 years now.

http://www.lgdonziclassic.com/news/News.Detail.asp?id=293400483

http://www.acbs.org/marqueclubs.html

"The Antique and Classic Boat Society (ACBS) officially registers the Lake George Donzi Classic Club as a Marque Club. The ACBS encourages Marque Clubs, that is clubs organized about a particular manufacturer or type of boat, to promote the preservation and enjoyment of such boats and their owners.
The ACBS supports your efforts to keep the Donzi mystique alive.
As an ACBS Marque Club the Lake George Donzi Classic Club will be listed as a reference for others interested in Donzi boats. The ACBS promotes that the Lake George Donzi Classic Club not only provides a social outlet for Donzi owners but also a valuable source of information regarding this boat manufacturer, Donzi."

Good Donzi boating to you.
Thomas Holmes
ACBS Director
Marque Clubs

[BUIZILLA]

wouldn't 25 years back make a 1989 eligible?

[woobs]

This is a great announcement however, the ACBS natives are still apprehensive.

Some believe inclusion of any and all "Clorox bottle" boats will dilute the hobby. Even though pontoon boats, inflatable and other small craft are not included, some feel the sheer volume of old Bayliners & bowriders may lower the level of shows.

while this opens up the hobby for a plethora of cool boats....There is no criteria as to what is a collectable "Late Classic" and what is just an old piece of sh*te that has survived.

Others will answer that time will sort this out and the show preparation will become the benchmark. After all, if you love whatever boat enough to take the time and resources to present it in show condition... who's to say it does not belong.

Yes Buiz, 1989 is the current cut-off.

Anyone need an all original MARK TWAIN 19 future show winner?79882

[bertsboat]

The Mark Twain is a nice boat. One that would garner comments like " my uncle had one of those, or, my grand dad had one just like that" or"isn't that a Donzi?"


This is a great announcement however, the ACBS natives are still apprehensive.

Some believe inclusion of any and all "Clorox bottle" boats will dilute the hobby. Even though pontoon boats, inflatable and other small craft are not included, some feel the sheer volume of old Bayliners & bowriders may lower the level of shows.

while this opens up the hobby for a plethora of cool boats....There is no criteria as to what is a collectable "Late Classic" and what is just an old piece of sh*te that has survived.

Others will answer that time will sort this out and the show preparation will become the benchmark. After all, if you love whatever boat enough to take the time and resources to present it in show condition... who's to say it does not belong.

Yes Buiz, 1989 is the current cut-off.

Anyone need an all original MARK TWAIN 19 future show winner?79882

[mattyboy]

so is this a line in the concrete and the 1975 and the 1989 are permanent or are they moving benchmarks that progress on an annual basis?

a clarification please

a 1968 Donzi would be what class?

a 1974 Donzi would be what class?

a 1972 Cigarette would be what class?

a 1978 Cigarette would be what class?

[mario]

from what I see at some shows they need to do this just like concours car shows now have hot rods most off us grew up with and around glass boats
and wood boats nice to have a good mix

[bertsboat]

1975 and up to 25 years progressing every year. They will all be called " late-classics " pre 1975 boats are classics. So your 1968 donzi will be a classic as will the 1974 and 1972. The 1978 Cig will be a late- classic. I am sure there will be a lot more boats and boaters. T the boat shows now. The older crowd that tends to lean towards wood are a dwindling bunch. I love to look at wood as much as the next guy but I don't want one googling my garage and draining my 401k. I am convinced that the glass, especially Donzi's will increase in value now. Some guys will like that and some guys won't.
What's your take Matty?


so is this a line in the concrete and the 1975 and the 1989 are permanent or are they moving benchmarks that progress on an annual basis?

a clarification please

a 1968 Donzi would be what class?

a 1974 Donzi would be what class?

a 1972 Cigarette would be what class?

a 1978 Cigarette would be what class?

[BUIZILLA]

at some point wooden spokes get boring..

[woobs]

so is this a line in the concrete and the 1975 and the 1989 are permanent or are they moving benchmarks that progress on an annual basis?

a clarification please

a 1968 Donzi would be what class? “Classic”

a 1974 Donzi would be what class? “Classic”

a 1972 Cigarette would be what class? “Classic”

a 1978 Cigarette would be what class? "Late Classic"

This change has no effect upon the current ACBS designations of:

“Historic” (any boat built up to and including 1918),
“Antique” (any boat built between 1919 and 1942, inclusive)
“Classic” (any boat built between 1943 and 1975).

and now...
"Late Classic" (1976 to 25 years from current i.e. 2014=1989)

[woobs]

The older crowd that tends to lean towards wood are a dwindling bunch. I love to look at wood as much as the next guy but I don't want one googling my garage and draining my 401k. I am convinced that the glass, especially Donzi's will increase in value now.

I disagree. Wood boats are more popular now than they have been in the last 25 years. Sure there are the few old guys with their $250,000 Gold Cup replicas Ditchburn originals and perfect Gar-Wood racers but, there are many more of us that have really nice wood boats that in many cases cost much less than some people here spend on their Donzi. (and we're not THAT old)

As portions of our society have become more affluent and the wooden boat has become somewhat of a status symbol, an industry of companies manufacturing small numbers of extremely nice wooden boats are thriving across North America. The entry level for some of these boats is quite surprising (on the low side) and ranges up to six figures so, there is something for everyone. Furthermore, these designs do not necessarily follow the lines of century old launches, runabouts and gentleman's racers. ( http://vandamboats.com/boats/don-don )

My 1972 18' Greavette is an all wood construction. It has a stern drive (as it did from the factory, it handles well, has a soft ride, can pull skiers (or tubers... not potatoes), it cruises nicely with 5 -6 people, can do just over 50mph and with a 20* deadrise handles the chop quite well too. It is not the pinnacle model from this manufacturer but, is fun to drive while garnering way more attention than my Classic 18' 2+3 ever did. It cost less to buy and completely restore than most average new plastic boats available on the market today....(and less than 1/2 of a Cobalt) plus it certainly has a better resale. If you think wood boats are boring... you're not looking hard enough.
79884

Donzi prices may go up but, I doubt their value will change very much because of this announcement. Donzis are already a sought after and collectable boat. Entry into ACBS shows has been available to Donzi models made up to 1975 and that already includes a lot of cool boats.

Besides the ACBS BOD's still looks to 100% originality for their judging (and therefore value). I don't think I'll be looking for an Eaton drive and an iron ford V8 for my Ski Sporter anytime soon as I wanted this boat for it's performance. The Donzi "culture" seems to lend itself to performance modifications in the everyday enjoyment of these boats.... Who's going to take their 1989 C22 tricked out with a whipple, custom exhaust and multitude of other mods just to be told you're a loser by the "anal OE rules" (make sure you have the right screw heads) judges ? Of course there will be a few and that will change some nice Donzis into Boathouse queens. That's a shame as I think they should be driven.

BTW: that Mark Twain is a real turd. It's slow, uncomfortable, can't handle medium water let alone the rough stuff (and you get soaked), it can't pull a skier older than 10yo. On the bright side it's 165hp I6 Merc and pre Alpha drive starts every time and they are indestructible. Also, the boat weighs a tonne... You can bang it off any dock without worry :) . This one has been used as a service boat for about 20 years... It's available for the right price!

[f_inscreenname]

Some of the folks at the Chesapeake Bay chapter were way ahead of the curve on this one. I've won 2 times with glass boats. They were or would be in the classic class but the Donzi I have (a 1976) would not be invited at 38 years old. To be a "classic" in most car clubs is only 30 years old.

[mattyboy]

This change has no effect upon the current ACBS designations of:

“Historic” (any boat built up to and including 1918),
“Antique” (any boat built between 1919 and 1942, inclusive)
“Classic” (any boat built between 1943 and 1975).

and now...
"Late Classic" (1976 to 25 years from current i.e. 2014=1989)


Thanks Woobs :)
just a few more questions and then I give my take on this

so next year historic is 1919
antique 1920 to 1943
classic is 1944 to 1976
late classic is 1977-1990

or is it just the back end of late classic keeps growing?

once in a class all boats are judged together so a 1972 cigarette is competing with a 1972 greavette? or are there sub categories within the class?

thanks again

[woobs]

so next year historic is 1919
antique 1920 to 1943
classic is 1944 to 1976
late classic is 1977-1990

or is it just the back end of late classic keeps growing?

once in a class all boats are judged together so a 1972 cigarette is competing with a 1972 greavette? or are there sub categories within the class?

Just the back end of "Late Classics" keeps growing. This, until presumably the ACBS decides it needs a cut-off and another "era" class would be established. Maybe "Modern Classics" will fly :) . The theory is that it is not age alone that defines these design but, also "era". Of course that is difficult to pin point but, you draw a line somewhere.

In the case of 1972 Cigarette v. Greavette they are both classics but judged in different sub categories. For example, "restored" or "preserved", "wood" or "non-wood". There are plenty of classes in both "power" and "non-power" splits. Launch, runabout, utility, outboard, racer, commuter, cruiser, steam, sail, rowing, skiff, skull, rowing skiff etc... Of course, overall boats are scored against a theoretical 100 points and could still compete together on that level.

I'm not sure if the rule is still there after this announcement but previously, "contemporary" boats could not be named "Best of show". Contemporary referred to 1976 and newer boats.

http://www.acbs.org/presmanual/g.c-judging-rules.pdf

[gcarter]

I really don't think "overpopulation" will be a problem. Just how many 30 year old Bayliners will be of show quality?
What self respecting beat-up Bayliner owner would want to pay the price to show their boat?
Of course, some ACBS naysayer MIGHT show a dumpy Bayliner just to prove a point, I think most folks would see through it.
OTOH, I enjoy seeing small glass and aluminum boats from the early '50's that originally cost well below $2,500. Certainly, boats like that would have been the equivalence of a throw away Bayliner.

[Ghost]

I really don't think "overpopulation" will be a problem. Just how many 30 year old Bayliners will be of show quality?
What self respecting beat-up Bayliner owner would want to pay the price to show their boat?
Of course, some ACBS naysayer MIGHT show a dumpy Bayliner just to prove a point, I think most folks would see through it.
OTOH, I enjoy seeing small glass and aluminum boats from the early '50's that originally cost well below $2,500. Certainly, boats like that would have been the equivalence of a throw away Bayliner.

I think you're spot-on. One thing you do see at some of these shows are old but very modest boats. When they're old enough, they're usually interesting in their own right. The weakest thing would be the intersection of the 25-year category with models with little inherent appeal, especially if not well-kept. But somehow, while it seems a theoretical possibility, I doubt it will become an issue.

[mattyboy]

Thanks Woobs that gives me a better insight into it. :)

My take and remember you asked for it. Not in any particular order

I am a member of the ACBS Hudson River Valley Chapter and have been involved with the LGDCC running the events which includes the longest running judged boat show for Donzi Classics next year will be our 20th.

Value: I am not sure this announcement will be the goose that laid the golden egg, the older Donzi seem to hold their value well among glass boats prior to this announcement . it doesn't hurt to get exposure

Pedigree: We are the new kids on the block and need to establish our "props" This is where Bert might not like what I have to say. When we enter the show world which is very exacting we need to be better than letter perfect. Bert's awesome red boat is by no way or means a 1974 Donzi it is a 1978 Cigarette produced an popped from the molds in 1978 at the Cigarette Factory . This boat may be the most unique and rare Cigarette that exists. It is truely a piece of history from Don Aronow and the "Thunderboat Row" era a One of One. "to thine ownself be true" So if we are going to join this show world we need to show them that the glass guys are serious about the lineage, heritage and authenticity of our boats. I have told Bert I think is boat is more precious and worth more as a Cig and that it's heritage should not be covered up. Would a sonic popped at the sonic factory from the 24 doral/spirit/spitfire/el pescador molds that sonic bought from donzi make it a donzi???
We need to go to these shows guns loaded with more info and documentation then they have seen. This leads me to my next point Knowledge base and Acceptance .

Knowledge base: I have offered my help to my local chapter and to anyone who contacts the club for info or history on their Donzi Classic or Donzi. I have won awards from the ACBS with my 67 16 over 5 years ago . The judging process at the time was so mis-matched for a glass boat or a donzi. The wood guys were nice hosts and did make me feel welcome but they had no idea about my 16 or Donzi history in general. Yes i even got the "they are fine Italian Boats" thing . I answered all their questions and gave them a decent history lesson on Donzi. The ACBS is no green horn when it comes to establishing criteria for judging and they will fine tune it, i am sure with help from their membership and marque clubs who have specialized knowledge into each mfg'r.

Acceptance: We are the outsiders here and i am sure we will do fine eventually but it could be a rough at first. I am sure some of the establishment will frown or ignore us at first but we have to be bigger and better and once they see how sincere and committed we are to our boats and to their legacy that they will accept us.

The Show circuit: This is the biggest hurdle. I have been involved with the Dustoff show for a long time and we have learned a ton. At first it was a tied to the dock all day show. This may work in the woody world but in the donzi world as Woobs said they are meant to run.We adjusted our show to include dock judging as well as judging during the run. We feel this gives the judges a more complete picture of the boat.
the hard part is the nerves for a first timer , I remember how nervous i was about pulling my 16 up along side of so many other awesome classics. I asked not to be judged but was told not to worry , won oldest boat at the show that year. We try to include evryone and make it a point to give oldest and most original as well as best in show ,resto and resto mod. Our show is just as much about the Father daughter team who are wrenching on a 16 her 16 birthday present as it is about Parnell's overtop creations. We have always encouraged our members to get their boats into these shows Jay has done it as well as myself and with this new class it opens up a lot more of our members boats to "show". We also try to help with our members projects

The LGDCC has set it membership up by a model listing (http://www.lgdonziclassic.com/pages/Modals.asp)and not on any given era or time frame so a '69, '89, '99, '09, or '19(if they make one) 18 classic is eligible . They might not be eligible for some awards but that is here nor there. Granted we are just about Donzi classics but the ACBS with this criteria has a lot on their plate. I would imagine the subject matter on 1989 glass boats is quite large.

I think this is a very good thing and would suggest anyone who can get into a show do it at least once .

So did anyone see the 71 hemi Cuda ragtop go for 3.5 million on Mecum the other night :eek: one can only hope our hobby gets a 1/4 of the way there :yes:

[gcarter]

Well stated Matty!
While I've been to most of the Lake Dora shows since their inception in late '80's (I think), and have been to the museum in NY, I've never watched their judging process. I have, however watched the judging at the Amelia Island Concours, Meadowbrook Hall, as well as Pebble Beach. I think I'd have to guess there's a lot more wiggle room in old boats than cars as there have been so many short lived different boat companies, and so many different models, and so many different company owners of many of them.......just think of Donzi and all the iterations of each.
I would guess the judges would vote for the boat in each category that got their attention.

[jl1962]

It's very good news.
And it takes two to tango.
We should try to get out and show our boats a bit.
My boat was very well received at an ACBS Event on LG several years ago.
Everyone had a great old Donzi story to share. And they couldn't believe how (relatively) affordable a nice older Donzi was.

There's a lot of upside in classic glass - now why did I just sell my '67? :bonk: ;)

798857988679887

[mattyboy]

wonder how they feel about metalflake YEAH BABY!


79888

[jl1962]

wonder how they feel about metalflake YEAH BABY!


79888

Not all that different from a purple 'Cuda......

Just sayin :cool:

[woobs]

This 16 was at the ACBS Toronto (at Gravenhurst, Muskoka) show in 2009. It had quite a bit of attention and was well turned out.
79889
I think you are right, the Judges will have to bone up on their manufacturers if they are to judge to the same level. I don't think the volume of details will be a problem for the Judges... they seem to know everything about every Chris Craft ever made right down to screw head types. But, they must learn what is and what is not factory for each manufacturer.

With the abundance of Donzis let's hope they learn quickly... if nothing else, where to come for help (LGDCC).

If last fall/winter are any indication, we are still learning ourselves. Case and point the Shepherd Donzi builds and how they differ from USA produced boats.

[gcarter]

What I was trying to say above (and didn't do it well) wa that in various periods of Donzi history, whatever was on hand was what was installed. Think of the Chisholm period when production was super slow, and we know the CC built Donzi's were a completely different critter (no pun intended). I really don't think a lot of rules can be applied to these things, although there may an attempt to do so.

[f_inscreenname]

wonder how they feel about metalflake YEAH BABY!


Not to bad at all.

http://www.supernova19.com/resurrectionmarine/1b2206a0.jpg

http://www.supernova19.com/resurrectionmarine/1d8ea2b0.jpg

[mattyboy]

a few more thoughts

George I knew what you were trying to get at, but i would not call production during the eras prior to full omc ownership as slow just not mass production. I think todays production at Donzi could be called slow.

This may not be such a monumental task. When you register for a show you have filled out a form they are relying on your complete honesty in doing so. We do this as well when we have our show we ask questions and take the answers as gospel. It is hard to tell an orignal 1960s bilt-rite interior in mint condition from a 1980s replacement bilt-rite interior. I mean I am good not that good and Bilt-rite was. So in the registration questionaire if the owner states the interior the gel/paint hardware is original so be it.

Remember the class is from 1975 on so what does this mean class?,bueller, bueller????? yes that's right a USGC mandatory HIN stamped or affixed to the right upper side of the transom. The ACBS should have no problem getting a HIN database and should be number 1A on the judging form for this class. they take out the form for the boat what is it? it is a 1975 donzi corsican all original numbers matching . Ok judge 1 can you get me the HIN off the transom , there is none. okay next

This is also a great thing for people like f'in and craig who like other classic glass boats. Perhaps this announcement might lead to people finding older cobalt donzi clones and restoring them as what they are cobalts and worthy as such to enter a show.

There are owners groups for glastron and checkmate as well as donzi and others that have resources to help.

I agree I think the bar will be set much lower at first, then they will have it set in stone like they do for the historic ,antique and classic classes.

I have sent an email to my chapter president to pass along I have forms and info for judging a classic that I would be happy to pass along or help develop with them.

expierence takes time. You can see it on the boards we know more today than yesterday. This reminds me a a Chinese fable my golf coach told me, he was helping us with our game.

A young man wanted to become a jade jeweler and he signed on to become an apptrentice to the town's jade master. On the first day the master hands him a piece of jade then proceeds to talk about the moon and the stars. Then next day the same thing hands him a piece of jade and then talks about love and hapiness. This continues for weeks and months the master hands him the jade and then talks about everything under the sun but Jade. Finally after a year of this the apprentice comes in and protests and questions the master when are you going to teach me about jade. The master throws him a rock painted to look like jade, the young man catches it and quickly exclaims master this is not jade!.

He learned by doing touching feeling it , just as we see here on the boards hey that's not donzi or that's not a bilt-rite interior. The ACBS will get it right.

[JimG]

I agree that everyone should show their boat at least once! It is a very rewarding experience, everyone was supportive and it's a hoot to hear all of the stories... I even took second in "Classic Glass", totally unrestored...

[woobs]

I agree that everyone should show their boat at least once! It is a very rewarding experience, everyone was supportive and it's a hoot to hear all of the stories... I even took second in "Classic Glass", totally unrestored...

2014 will be the first year my Greavette will be shown. I`ve tried for 11 years to have a boat ready and one thing or another has pushed that back. When you`re a Toronto Maple Leaf fan you really know the meaning of `next year` but, this is THE year.

To knock this out of the park my Greavette is featured in the ACBS Classicboat magazine which will be distributed to membership and at the show. I can`t say how happy I am.

Now, my boat is being Judged... but, I don`t expect she`ll do very well as I have re-powered and upgraded my sterndrive. I have also re-upholstered the interior and changed out old Merc gauges for new Farias. Lastly the varnish job was done in 2011 so, living on a trailer and not in a boathouse shows up when the deck planks expand and contract (small cracks in the seams). Do I care about ANY of that. NO. I'm not going for the AWARDS but for the REWARDS.

So if my wooden boat can make a show and be judged there`s no reason any Donzi (up to 1989) can`t do it also. You can bet when my Ski Sporter is done it`ll be entered as well!

79895

[f_inscreenname]

Woobs, it's all about being in the game. I never expect to win. For me it was just playing in the major leagues is enough.

[gcarter]

Sean, bring your Woodie to Lake Dora next March.
There's a bunch here in Florida who'd like to see it.
And, you'd have the bonus of some warm weather.

[woobs]

Dora is sooooo on my bucket list!
As soon as I am able I'll be there.

It looks like boaters a heaven for 10 days. And after all these years it'll be great to go to Florida and NOT visit the MOUSE!

[woobs]

Woobs, it's all about being in the game. I never expect to win. For me it was just playing in the major leagues is enough.

Absolutely correct! I'm just happy to get there. :)

[mattyboy]

yes it is good the ACBS is expanding it's classes In 2007 we tried to enter two boats in a local chapter show my 67 was excepted this 72 was turned away.
you would have had to cover my boat with Jay Lo, Jenny McCarthy, Sofia Vergara and Kate Beckingsale to get it to look half way as good as this 72.
Hopefully we will get to see her out on the show circuit somewhere