Prop Info: LH SS Volvo 4 Blade Prop?

[problemchild]

Looking to buy a new prop for my '76 18 2+3, I was previously running a custom made LH 25P 3 blade (before it fell off in the middle of the St. Lawrence River). The boat ran 63 in perfect conditions with 380ish Hp @5150 RPMs Outdrive is a 280T with the "D" Ratio (1.63:1?). I had my heart set on a 4 blade prop, although I am certainly open for suggestions. I called Hydromotive but was told that they couldn't do the volvo hub. I also am looking for advice for new prop nut hardware as I have no idea where the last set came from (it was like a big brass nut)... I'll try to find a pic. It seemed like the prop setup had a lot of slip in the water, although I forget what the math actually came out to.
Thanks in advance for any help or direction you guys can send me in,
-Alex

[mattyboy]

Looking to buy a new prop for my '76 18 2+3, I was previously running a custom made LH 25P 3 blade (before it fell off in the middle of the St. Lawrence River). The boat ran 63 in perfect conditions with 380ish Hp @5150 RPMs Outdrive is a 280T with the "D" Ratio (1.63:1?). I had my heart set on a 4 blade prop, although I am certainly open for suggestions. I called Hydromotive but was told that they couldn't do the volvo hub. I also am looking for advice for new prop nut hardware as I have no idea where the last set came from (it was like a big brass nut)... I'll try to find a pic. It seemed like the prop setup had a lot of slip in the water, although I forget what the math actually came out to.
Thanks in advance for any help or direction you guys can send me in,
-Alex


you should be looking at a solas titan or volvo ultra I would say a 23 solas or a 26 ultra will keep you in the same RPM ballpark both are 3 blade the solas will handle better the ultra will be fast and loose with a lot of bow lift

the D ratio was 2:1 the B ratio was 1.6 they also had a v 6 ratio of 1.8 think that was a C


Hill has SS performance props on ebay for the AQ series I have never run one I would recommend the solas 23 titan if you can turn a 23 to 5150 on 1.6 you will be north of 67


solas does make a 4 blade for the AQ but i would say it is not really a performance prop only lower 20s pitch

[problemchild]

Thank you Mattyboy,
Just to be sure: Does a four bladed prop help with the stability at top speed and the torque felt in the steering wheel (I don't power steering lol)? Those were a couple benefits that I was told I could see by switching from my 3 blade. The boat has always loved lots of bow lift, so I will definitely lean towards props with that characteristic.
One more note, and this probably means nothing at this point but the boat would run 59-61 with the outdrive and trim up, and if you overtrim it to the point that the cavitation plate and prop break the water (small rooster tail at this point) it was like hitting the Nitrous button and getting an instant two Mph's all at once... you would actually lose speed while trimming it until it hit the sweet spot. Again, probably an insignificant fact but the boat definitely likes to run with the prop out of the water.
-Alex

[mattyboy]

I don't think you will find a 4 blade big enough

torque steer is usually a by product of the prop

the solas is the best mannered prop i have seen it is super efficient and has no bad handling quirks it is a prop worth having in you stash very little prop torque


this link has the AQ series props from solas the 4 blade is alum and only 21 pitch the solas itan is their high performance prop


http://www.solas.com/newweb/propeller/search/volvo.asp?cat=E&SKindNo=S07&Skind=VOLVO%20PENTA%20AQUAMATIC%20SP%20STERN%20DRI VE

[JimG]

Admittedly I have never run a Solas, but hear great things about them.

When I first got my '70 Donzi, it had an aluminum prop on it. It torque steered so bad it was almost undriveable. If you opened the throttle fast, the wheel would try to rip out of your hands...

The Donzi community introduced me to the Ultra. I found one on ebay and installed it. Amazing transformation! No torque steer at all, carried the nose with perfection. Not a single bad habit, ever. I don't know about efficiency, I hear they slip a lot. But for my boat, it is pure gold...

Don't pass one up if you get a shot.

[mattyboy]

running your numbers your at 16% slip now that's about what you will see with the ultra as well, the solas will be at about 7-8% slip .

what that means is with the solas 23 you will lose 200 rpm or so

the ultra were good but the biggest difference i saw was the solas runs in anything the same way, in rougher conditions the ultra would blow out in turns and ventilate in rougher water the solas won't do that.

so if you can turn the 23 solas to 5000 rpm you should see about 2mph increase


the solas carries the entire boat not just the nose, on a 16 i think it may work better than an 18. the 16 seems to runs a bit better more level, the 18 can handle a bit more bow lift with the different bottom and the 2' LOA advantage.

[JimG]

Matty, my experience was definitely different with the Ultra. I have never blown mine out or ventilated. Rough water, hard turns... my Ultra has never displayed any of the symptoms you described. I guess every boat is different i.e weight, weight distribution, etc. It's been flawless...

[mattyboy]

we ran the ultra and solas on a 16 18 and 20 cig in varying pitches from 19-24. the ultra was better than any other SS prop we tried before minimal torques steer but ventilated and blew out in turns plus we spun a few hubs on the ultra. My lake is like bumper cars on the weekend and from time to time when you are running hard you need to get off the throttle quickly the ultra was a hot mess causing the ass end to jump around the solas was like power disc brakes. I know members who have had the ultra tweaked and are happy with it, I was happy with the ultra too until I ran the solas. you just need good power to turn a solas.

The new boat is a much wider flatter bottom pushing just around 240 ish HP i run the solas 19 and a 21 custom spinelli I had 2 or 3 ultra 22s I sold all of them . i am happy enough with the solas 19 that i don't need to go out and find an ultra 22 .

[JimG]

Cool! The Ultra works so good on mine, that I bought another!! For my boat it's perfection! No bad habits anywhere to be found...

Sounds like you found the one that works on yours!:)

[Kirbyvv]

I have a solas and a few ultra's (thanks JimG). I spend some time with Big Griz testing the solas, and bought one from him. I really like the way the solas handles, but I love the way the ultra handles. The ultra gives just a bit more bow lift that my X18 likes. The ultra also feels looser, probably due to the slip, but it's not in a bad way, just different.

[problemchild]

I just purchased the 23 solas, although I would like to run an ultra as well. It definitely sounds like those are the two best options out there! the Solas will be here Friday... I'll post my results when I get the boat in the water

[problemchild]

So I'm in the process of mounting my prop, and have some questions... the hub of the new solas extends past the end of the splines on my prop shaft even with no line cutter/bushing, so the tab washer that I used before to secure my prop nut is useless. My Volo prop nut would work with the small counter bolt that some prop shafts use but my shaft has no hole... does this mean I need to drill and tap a hole in the prop shaft myself or am I missing something? I didn't see any options for prop shaft lengths when I ordered the prop.

[f_inscreenname]

So I'm in the process of mounting my prop, and have some questions... the hub of the new solas extends past the end of the splines on my prop shaft even with no line cutter/bushing, so the tab washer that I used before to secure my prop nut is useless. My Volo prop nut would work with the small counter bolt that some prop shafts use but my shaft has no hole... does this mean I need to drill and tap a hole in the prop shaft myself or am I missing something? I didn't see any options for prop shaft lengths when I ordered the prop.

Well you are turning a left so unless you are in reverse the prop nut is not going to spin off even at finger tight but what I did was just use the cone with a little removable lock tight on the prop shaft threads. Worked for me for years now and I have had to take the prop off a couple times for other things with no issues.

[problemchild]

yes, Unfortunately I have bad luck... that's what I did when my last prop fell off, I may have even used the Red loctite instead of the Blue!

[mattyboy]

I would drill and tap it , how much meat do you have left on the threads? You probably have a short hub , and the solas is a long hub.

I ran the solas on my 250 which had the short hub just need to be creative a little with different size thrust washer and other hardware.



edit you say it is a 280T should be a long shaft but who knows maybe the shaft was replaced , my 280 t doesn't have much left on the threads but I do have enough to get a SS nylock nut as a backing nut on the threaded washer I use

[problemchild]

Just checked. I have a long shaft (4.5 inches to the start of the threads) and I have 1/2" of exposed threads. Where does one find a threaded washer? I'll probably end up drilling and tapping the shaft

[mattyboy]

you have to make one. search drill and tap or long and short hub I think penbroke had a thread how do do it that.

would be the way to go

[problemchild]

Couldn't find the thread, but it wasn't hard to tap the shaft anyways. I used the cone nut to help center and guide the hole. I had to stop half way through and drill a pilot hole (even my snap-on bits weren't happy) everything went smooth after that. The threads are 5/16-18, I even had the SS bolt from one of my spare drives. I put the boat in the water on what turned out to be a very busy Sunday on Canandaigua Lake, and it was hard to get accurate numbers due to the boat traffic. I will post better numbers once I get the boat back to the cottage in the 1000 islands this weekend. 56 mph was all I could get, and I was turning around 47-800 Rpms?, although I had the boat loaded down with Gas 4 pple and gear... far from ideal conditions... I would have seen 58-59 with my last prop with that load, but I have a lot more experience with how it likes to run... The Solas is VERY different. I get great midrange and gas mileage, and am impressed at how much bite the prop has. My only concern is that it won't give me enough bow lift when I get the right kind of water to trim it out.
I'll post more news after this weekend!

[problemchild]

Is this an ultra? http://www.ebay.com/itm/VOLVO-PENTA-14X26-LH-PROPELLER-PROP-STAINLESS-85379-8-STERNDRIVE-14-26-/191218764588?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item2c8586cb2c&vxp=mtr

[JimG]

Yes, that is an Ultra.

[problemchild]

Good deal or not? They seem to be hard to find

[JimG]

An excellent deal. If I wasn't all "Ultra'd up", I would be all over it!

[mattyboy]

an ultra 24 would probably be better but yes good deal if the nicks and dings aren't too bad , look on ebay Hill has started to produce their AQ props again they also offer a 4 blade never tried one so may be someone here has and can give you feedback.

yes the 23 solas as I said was going to drop your rpms. When Grizz first introduced them most AQ owners' egos were damaged I was turning a 24-25 pitch props in all shapes and sizes I said send me a 23 and i'll test it . He was honest and said Matty you ain't got the motor to spin it, I was like come on if I take a 24 ultra to 5100 rpms the 21 I will be turning it way to high . Grizz was right the 21 was the prop for my 16 at around 5000 rpms I hit my best 62 mph. You would have to find the 200-300 rpm in the motor or maybe try the 21.

but even with that your numbers seem off double digit slip never seen that on a solas titan going to have to re check which mean running the boat again and again what a PITA ! ;p

[problemchild]

Called Hill for fun, they recommended the Pleasure Four 23 pitch. They said that it "was the next generation of performance propellers". Once I buy one I'm stuck with a hill prop, they'll do exchanges but no returns. Here is a link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Signature-Pleasure-Four-14-1-4-X-23-Four-Blade-for-Mercruiser-or-Volvo-Penta-SX-/151021990347?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item23299cb1cb

I'm not convinced it'll out perform what you guys have been using. Also they said that they do not make an ultra but are considering putting it into production, (that was from the guy that answered the phone, not Ron himself).

Can't wait for more WOT test runs :)

[problemchild]

Just bought that ultra on eBay for sh*ts and giggles. I'm very excited to test both options

[Just Say N20]

My results.

With the same engine and drive set up, 18s are 2 - 3 mph FASTER than 16s.

The Volvo 290 drive on my 16 is very deep; the entire cavitation plate, which is hollow as the exhaust outlet for non-thru-hull, is about an inch below the bottom of the hull.

Engine:
409 cubic inch
430+ hp @ 5,300
490 ft lbs @ 4,300

Drive:
Volvo 290
1.61:1 ratio
Power Trim

Steering:
Cable
No Power steering


Solas 23: 65.2 GPS mph @ 5,300, 1 person, light on fuel, 1'+ Lake chop, 9% slip
Ultra 26: 64.9 GPS mph @ 5,600, 1 person, 3/4 fuel, no chop, 24% slip


• The Solas 23 is about 3 mph faster at any given rpm than the Ultra.

• The Solas 23 doesn't produce much bow lift. Trimming the drive seems to make very little difference to ride attitude.

• Mid-range performance of the Solas 23 is outstanding, with slip % numbers at 30, 35, 40, and 45 being either 0%, or slightly negative. I know negative slip is "impossible" as the prop theoretically can't travel further than the stated pitch, however that is what the calculations show.

• The Ultra 26 can be trimmed to the moon. It never ventilated, and never went above 5,600 rpms, but when trimmed to excess I lost a couple mph.

• The Solas 23 ran 64.5 GPS speed with 820 lbs of passengers and full fuel @ 5,300 rpms. I offered to pay the passengers to ride around with me all the time, because although the boat was .7 mph slower, it was rock solid. Driving it solo can be a handful.


I got the Ultra to test a theory regarding my drive/installation height. I was NOT dissatisfied with the Solas 23 performance. It seemed that the drive/depth seemed to be creating a top speed wall of around 65 mph. I have more than a little high performance boating experience, and my "traditional" experience can't explain why the Solas even works. All my previous "fast" props were small diameter with lots of pitch. The Solas is HUGE (15-5/8" diameter, vs 14" for the Ultra), has minimal pitch, and tons of blade surface area. It looks like it belongs on a tug boat! The Ultra looks more like a traditional go-fast prop, with smaller diameter, bigger pitch, and much smaller blade area.

With a previous engine in this boat, the engine was able to turn a Solas 19, and an Ultra 24 both to 5,000 rpms. The Solas slip at WOT was 8%, the Ultra 18.8%.

Based on this information, I predicted this engine would spin the Ultra to 5,600 rpms, which it did.

Using 19% slip, 5,600 rpms, 1.61 drive ratio, the boat SHOULD have gone 69.8 GPS mph. It did not. The rpms prediction was exact. The slip was not, going to a crazy 24%. This would seem to confirm that on my boat, the drive will take a LOT more hp to push it faster than 65 mph.

When you consider other 16s, with less than 430 hp have danced around the 80 mph mark (Rootsy, Younger), with different drives, and higher gearcase locations, it would seem to confirm my drive as the top speed limiter.

This is fine. Although it would be great to try an e-drive, which is shorter, much thinner, and longer. I suspect with this engine and an e-drive my boat would run in the 71 - 73 range.

Hope this helps.

[mattyboy]

yes the faster you spin an ultra the less efficient they get


so what travels farther in one revolution a 23 with 8 % slip or a 26 with almost 25 % ???


keep an eye on the hub on that 26 it looks to have been nicked up and that is the factory hub they are weak when it goes find a prop shop who can put in the michigan hub which is stronger


Bill i think the wall is the shape of the lower and when you hit mid 60s is just making a big hole of mixed up water and the wide hub and bigger diameter of the solas helps over the smaller ultra. I had a few slim solid hub bronze props they always had cavitation burns.

wonder if a nose cone might net you a mph or two

[problemchild]

Official results: 59.5 mph at 4800 rpm. It will do 56 thru anything w/ the boat trimmed level, but it's bucks and twitches something fierce when I give it any trim. Will have the ultra tested by the 4th of July

[problemchild]

Also cruising seems great, 24 mph @ 2400, 34ish @3000, 42 @ 3400

[mattyboy]

Official results: 59.5 mph at 4800 rpm. It will do 56 thru anything w/ the boat trimmed level, but it's bucks and twitches something fierce when I give it any trim. Will have the ultra tested by the 4th of July


yes those numbers are more inline with a solas titan.