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XMETAL
05-19-2014, 10:21 PM
79688
Pardon my ignorance but was is this tag other then the drive and engine serial #'s? We are having trouble locating a HIN # on the boat.... Some more info is this is going to be my new to me 1973 GT21...
Thanks

mattyboy
05-20-2014, 05:41 AM
That is the Hull Identification Number 21-56 the reason it is not on the transom is the boat was started in sept 1971 and invoiced in aug of 1972 right before the HIN became mandatory so it is NOT a 73 .

the records indicate the engine serial number was a late scratch the 320 CC was scratched in favor of a 375 chrysler, it was sold to south river. I guess they never printed a new tag

the drive serial number is for a volvo 270 not a trs so judging by that and the condition of the tag some work has been done to the boat.

can you tell what the original colors were?

73donzibob
05-20-2014, 08:33 AM
Are you suggesting it's a '72? Hmmm, very interesting. I know the boat was once light blue (paint showing around the tag) and then it was all white...or vise versa. The TRS is not original and either is the big block pwr plant. :) The boat was purchased in South River Md. in the early 80's (although not 100% certain of the year) and has had lots of work done to it.

mattyboy
05-20-2014, 09:37 AM
Almond white was the original colors. It is a 1972 that's why it doesn't have a HIN on the transom

73donzibob
05-20-2014, 09:52 AM
From my Uncle (the owner until just a few years ago):

"Stanley Brown, a jeweler in Pikesville Md. is who sold me the boat, which was stored at S.River at the time. The Original colors are what you see on the deck. Everything else written sounds right from my knowledge except the drive is not a TRS."

As for the drive NOT being a TRS...I finding it all depends on who you ask. I'll post the conversation pertaining to the drive in a moment. The colors on the deck that he's referring to appear to be the Ivory and Light Blue.

73donzibob
05-20-2014, 09:55 AM
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?68785-1973-Donzi-22ft-GT-for-sale&highlight=Donzis+for+sale

Talks about the drive. Whether it's a TRS or a Merc III.

mattyboy
05-20-2014, 10:15 AM
Something is up with this boat all the other gt made at this time were sold in 1971 this one was sold in aug of 1972

Wonder what went on the dealer held up and changed his mind or was it sent back for a re fit. To my knowledge a mopar wouldn't work with a merc. But would with a Volvo

XMETAL
05-20-2014, 10:26 AM
It was told to me that this boat possibly came from Italy....Does this hold any truth to the best of anyones knowledge here??

73donzibob
05-20-2014, 10:27 AM
My Uncle is also very adament that this boat was built in Italy; Left hand steering??? Could that be why it wasn't sold until 1972? Shipping it from over seas takes time, right?

jl1962
05-20-2014, 10:35 AM
No Donzis built in Italy (although I always have to convince people that it's not an Italian boat! :bonk:)

Left hand drive typical for left hand prop = Volvo.

XMETAL
05-20-2014, 10:43 AM
Well that clears that up. Now what engine should have come in the boat?

73donzibob
05-20-2014, 10:45 AM
Half of what you see, none of what you hear...I get it :confused:

mattyboy
05-20-2014, 10:47 AM
if I had a nickel for everytime I heard that one .


according to the records it was a mopar volvo combo most likely a warmed up 360

I'll see what i can dig up


remember this time at DONZI they were going gangbusters with a large model list it was build and sell . the boats were not sitting around gathering dust it was finished and paid then out the door. This boat was at the factory for almost a year did it leave and come back ?? or Not??

XMETAL
05-20-2014, 10:49 AM
Mattboy, thank you. Now if I keep the boat left hand steer and use a right hand outdrive, would that cause any riding issue?

mattyboy
05-20-2014, 10:56 AM
Left hand steer and a duo prop or a LH Bravo BB

the new VP 430 would be a reliable PKG or the Ilmor 570

people have done the LH helm RH drive without much issue some tab and seat time

BUIZILLA
05-20-2014, 11:58 AM
what year was the first 360 Mopar marine produced...

Conquistador_del_mar
05-20-2014, 12:23 PM
That is the Hull Identification Number 21-56 the reason it is not on the transom is the boat was started in sept 1971 and invoiced in aug of 1972 right before the HIN became mandatory so it is NOT a 73 .

the records indicate the engine serial number was a late scratch the 320 CC was scratched in favor of a 375 chrysler, it was sold to south river. I guess they never printed a new tag

the drive serial number is for a volvo 270 not a trs so judging by that and the condition of the tag some work has been done to the boat.

can you tell what the original colors were?

Matty,
I knew the engine serial number sounded familiar on the GT 21 tag so I found a picture of my 1971 18' tag. Mine was originally equipped with an LT-1 Chevy - 350CID/350HP mechanical lifter motor and the serial numbers are 611131 on mine and 611133 on the GT 21 (only 2 apart). Interesting I thought.

73donzibob
05-20-2014, 12:58 PM
So I guess this means I need to change my username to "72"donzibob :banghead:

mattyboy
05-20-2014, 02:28 PM
Matty,
I knew the engine serial number sounded familiar on the GT 21 tag so I found a picture of my 1971 18' tag. Mine was originally equipped with an LT-1 Chevy - 350CID/350HP mechanical lifter motor and the serial numbers are 611131 on mine and 611133 on the GT 21 (only 2 apart). Interesting I thought.

Bill
yes pretty interesting they probably were shipped to Donzi in a stock order. The 1971 sbc LT1 was a beast the cig 19 had one in it and it was a screamer for a long time.
I guess 1971 was the golden days of the muscle car by 1973 most motors were detuned and deballed

I was good back then what was available in the car world was made available in the marine world

mattyboy
05-20-2014, 05:05 PM
the records show the chrysler motor has a serial number that would put it into a 1972 production date the 375hp model was a 440 the 360 was produced from 1971-2002 was 255 hp in 1971 , the 340 was rated at 275hp not sure they could mate a 440 to a volvo in 72 wonder if it is a typo and should read 275hp that would be within the engineered range of the 270 outdrive.

still digging

mattyboy
05-20-2014, 08:33 PM
doing a database search the engine serial number and drive serial number on the tag for 21-56 come up on 18 hull 428 also , that boat was started in 1971 invoiced in 1973???? so there is something up

XMETAL
05-20-2014, 08:41 PM
doing a database search the engine serial number and drive serial number on the tag for 21-56 come up on 18 hull 428 also , that boat was started in 1971 invoiced in 1973???? so there is something up

Can you give me a call please or send me your number and Ill call you tonight?
Steve
207-432-6186

73donzibob
05-21-2014, 07:02 AM
What are the possibilites? Don was having this boat modified w/ lighter, state of the art materials and it's a one of a kind 'diamond in the rough'? Can I retire early???

mattyboy
05-21-2014, 07:58 AM
What are the possibilites? Don was having this boat modified w/ lighter, state of the art materials and it's a one of a kind 'diamond in the rough'? Can I retire early???

don't think so Don had nothing to do with Donzi at the time your boat was built He was putting Cigarette Racing Team on the map. Unless this is a 21 cigarette??


may have been of some value if the original power plant and drive were still around, But that doesn't make it an unworthy project Boat it is just not an ultra rare ultra sort after Donzi.


as far as the tag being wrong i am sure that is not the only one , putting 30 or so boats out the door in a month that means there are 30 or so drives and motors around.......... they were still built by humans.



Bill

they must have had a stocking order on the LT1 motors around that time there are serial numbers from like 611124 to 611135

XMETAL
05-21-2014, 11:20 AM
don't think so Don had nothing to do with Donzi at the time your boat was built He was putting Cigarette Racing Team on the map. Unless this is a 21 cigarette??


may have been of some value if the original power plant and drive were still around, But that doesn't make it an unworthy project Boat it is just not an ultra rare ultra sort after Donzi.


as far as the tag being wrong i am sure that is not the only one , putting 30 or so boats out the door in a month that means there are 30 or so drives and motors around.......... they were still built by humans.



Bill

they must have had a stocking order on the LT1 motors around that time there are serial numbers from like 611124 to 611135

How did the 21 Cigarette compare performance wise to the GT21?

Conquistador_del_mar
05-21-2014, 11:41 AM
Bill

they must have had a stocking order on the LT1 motors around that time there are serial numbers from like 611124 to 611135

If an LT1 went into an 18' with the VP 270 drive, there should be a cutout in the engine hatch since the high rise intake was too high for the hatch. Thus mine has the scoop that I found out on this site was originally from the Cigarette plant. I wonder if all 12 of those engine serial numbers were LT1s?

yeller
05-21-2014, 12:34 PM
I just bit confused....which isn't out of the ordinary.

Who owns this boat? Xmetal, did you buy it off 73donzibob or does he still own it?

73donzibob
05-21-2014, 01:34 PM
We're in the process of working out a deal. Although I still own it/have it, I suppose you could say it's XMETAL's boat.

mattyboy
05-21-2014, 08:57 PM
Bill
Most were labeled as a 320 hp Chris craft motors they had the high rise intake with the snowflake stamp and the corvette valve covers I think CC called them an flv350

Conquistador_del_mar
05-21-2014, 10:19 PM
Bill
Most were labeled as a 320 hp Chris craft motors they had the high rise intake with the snowflake stamp and the corvette valve covers I think CC called them an flv350

Yep, the original LT1 was a CC marinized FLV350.

murfman
08-28-2015, 09:30 PM
What ever happened to this boat? If it was in fact a 375 Chrysler engine, it would have been a 440 6 Pack... Being an avid Mopar guy, my curiosity is peaked. Could it have been a V-Drive boat?

mattyboy
08-29-2015, 08:05 AM
What ever happened to this boat? If it was in fact a 375 Chrysler engine, it would have been a 440 6 Pack... Being an avid Mopar guy, my curiosity is peaked. Could it have been a V-Drive boat?

murfman maybe you would know is the rear end of the 440 the same as 318, 340 360 motors? I think the BB chevy 454 and the 350 are so you could mate them to a volvo . I know they mated a 351 clevland to a volvo ford guys consider that a big block but i think it is not the same as their FE big blocks the 390 427

I have some mopar marine literature some where I will see if i can dig it up they called the small blocks super bees mated to a volvo with a chrysler badge but in the late 70s chrysler came up with their own I/O there was a late 70s yellow 16 with one.

mattyboy
08-29-2015, 08:17 AM
murfman more info maybe you can decipher the serial number they have for the chrysler 375 on the build record is E136263 mated to a volvo 270 B drive is it possibly a typo and the motor was a 275 hp not a 375

murfman
08-29-2015, 09:07 AM
The Mopar "B" series engines (350,361,383,400) and "RB" series(383,413,426,440) used a different bellhousing pattern than the "A" series engines(273,318,340,360). so it would not be a bolt in swap. It would have been possible to use a Borg Warner Bellhousing for the B/RB engine with a B/W to Volvo PDS housing like Holman Moody made, but I don't think that would have been likely.

I am familiar with the Super Bee Small blocks, I have twin SuperBees in my 72 Magnum Sedan.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x205/murfman_photo/Magnum/m1tkpPApJeW3BzdtMreZnkg_zpsd792731e.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/murfman_photo/media/Magnum/m1tkpPApJeW3BzdtMreZnkg_zpsd792731e.jpg.html)

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x205/murfman_photo/Magnum/KGrHqIOKpME1qbSZIfRBNr9kepw_3_zpsffa64087.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/murfman_photo/media/Magnum/KGrHqIOKpME1qbSZIfRBNr9kepw_3_zpsffa64087.jpg.html )

And the 440S (375 HP)
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x205/murfman_photo/Magnum/mover_zps82c2ce41.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/murfman_photo/media/Magnum/mover_zps82c2ce41.jpg.html)
Chrysler never offered a 275HP small block the 318 was 225 HP the 340 was 250HP and the 4 BBL 440 was 330HP

mattyboy
08-29-2015, 09:12 AM
some of the donzi stuff I have list a 275 and a 335 chrysler late 60 early 70s the 335 was a v drive

mattyboy
08-29-2015, 09:57 AM
the card with the late substitution on it

shows the original color of boat almond and white and that it was built on 188th


murfman the 5 page dealer brochure I have has the purple color pic you posted on the front then lists the available motors some come with the volvo and some come with their 90 degree I/O do you have that ? if not I can scan it for you so you have it for your collection

murfman
08-29-2015, 11:29 AM
the card with the late substitution on it

shows the original color of boat almond and white and that it was built on 188th


murfman the 5 page dealer brochure I have has the purple color pic you posted on the front then lists the available motors some come with the volvo and some come with their 90 degree I/O do you have that ? if not I can scan it for you so you have it for your collection

No I do not...

BUIZILLA
08-29-2015, 11:33 AM
there was a 360 sb marine version that was 275, not real popular though as I think '73 only (and they were externally balanced flywheels, 340 was internally balanced), the 340 was underated at 275 in a car for 68-71, and very underated at 250 for marine, only due to the lower rpm rating numbers, but they were screamers, I had a 340 new in 1970 in a Duster

the 440 marine came in 3 versions, 290-300-330 or so in single 4bbl, 375 in tri-power, depending on what year, my 28 Cary had the 440-300's from new in '73 since they were lower compression than the 66-71 versions.... 440-6 in a car was underated at 390, 440 car was also avail in 350hp 4bbl single exhaust, 440-375 dual exhaust, my family had EVERY 413-440 car version from 65-71 in several different cars, we were diehard MOPAR owners.... all of my dad's Co. trucks were Dodges from 65-81

Lord only knows how many 318-225 marine engines were produced, they were EVERYWHERE

murfman
08-29-2015, 11:40 AM
The E136263 is definately a 1972 Chrysler Marine S/N but no clue to what HP it was

http://www.hurrikain.com/images/chrysler/serial_numbers.jpg

murfman
08-29-2015, 12:03 PM
The only 275 HP Chrysler marine engine I am aware of is the very late 360s in the mid 80s when they went to the center rise exhaust manifolds. If there was one in 1972 it mos likely would have been a 383 based "B" engine so that too would have most likely been a V drive application.

Has there ever been any Donzi's known to be built with the 525 HP Hemi?

mattyboy
08-29-2015, 03:15 PM
No I do not... ok i will scan the one I have and get it to ya

murfman
08-29-2015, 03:33 PM
ok i will scan the one I have and get it to ya

Thanks!

mattyboy
08-31-2015, 10:33 AM
here is the dealer brochure looks like this was printed in august of 1970 for the 71 model year looks like they have a drawing of a magnum sedan

mattyboy
08-31-2015, 10:35 AM
the rest