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View Full Version : Are 22 C Hulls Bonded, Screwed Or Both?



Carl C
03-15-2014, 07:02 PM
This came up on OSO. Here is what mine looks like under the bow. Obviously there are rub-rail screws visible. Is it bonded also? Mine's an '05.

gcarter
03-15-2014, 07:54 PM
You need to ask Ted or Josh to be sure. If it is bonded, I'd suspect something non-permanent. It's good to be able to get the deck off w/o too much trouble.

FWIW, your hull inside is laid up w/the same 0*-90* bi-directional stitched material mine was. The deck inner surface is different. I'd guess your deck was done w/a chopper gun.

Carl C
03-15-2014, 08:55 PM
You need to ask Ted or Josh to be sure. If it is bonded, I'd suspect something non-permanent. It's good to be able to get the deck off w/o too much trouble.

FWIW, your hull inside is laid up w/the same 0*-90* bi-directional stitched material mine was. The deck inner surface is different. I'd guess your deck was done w/a chopper gun.

Good info. I like that the hull is solid glass with no core, even if it is heavier. It has held up to a pounding after the early issues were fixed.

Here's the thread on OSO, they say that mine isn't bonded :( : http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-boating-discussion/309708-your-beck-bonded-screwed-together.html

yeller
03-16-2014, 06:29 AM
Carl, I'm sure yours would be the same as mine, being you have an 05 and I have an 04.
When I removed my deck it was screwed to the hull. There was a sealer, which was possibly 4200 or maybe 5200.

When I installed the new deck, I used 4200 and bolted it together.

gcarter
03-16-2014, 06:59 AM
Carl, I'm sure yours would be the same as mine, being you have an 05 and I have an 04.
When I removed my deck it was screwed to the hull. There was a sealer, which was possibly 4200 or maybe 5200.

When I installed the new deck, I used 4200 and bolted it together.

Glen, I'm glad you piped up. I woke up this morning thinking you had changed decks (and Lenny got your old deck).
No Glen, I don't make a habit of waking up and thinking of you, but it happened today..;)

Carl C
03-16-2014, 07:18 AM
No water has ever come through the joint that I know of. Does a 4200 sealant qualify as "bonded"? Some of the hulls on OSO are glassed together.

I think they answered my question. There is a big difference between bonded and glassed and most are at least "bonded". The chopper gun glass under the deck seems surprising to some and I've never been happy with the wiring. I've posted this pic before. This is stock wiring.

Does it look like the side of the liner is chopper gunned?

http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx275/CARLC222/sloppydonziwiring-1.jpg (http://s763.photobucket.com/user/CARLC222/media/sloppydonziwiring-1.jpg.html)

mattyboy
03-16-2014, 08:17 AM
in my mind bonded means chemically joined to become one, so I think it is screwed ,sealed and then bonded. the older classics had small glass tabs to hold the deck to the hull. did they drop that practice in the newer models for a "glued" deck hull joint?

yeller
03-16-2014, 04:54 PM
Glen, I'm glad you piped up. I woke up this morning thinking you had changed decks (and Lenny got your old deck).
No Glen, I don't make a habit of waking up and thinking of you, but it happened today..;)

I like you too George........just not in that way. :jestera:

OFFSHORE GINGER
03-16-2014, 05:22 PM
Carl ,judging from your pics , and past experience your hull is not bonded to the deck , and if it was .......you would not see a gap or void where the hull meets the deck or shoebox fit .

Carl C
03-16-2014, 05:30 PM
Carl ,judging from your pics , and past experience your hull is not bonded to the deck , and if it was .......you would not see a gap or void where the hull meets the deck or shoebox fit .

So the deck will pop right off if I remove the rub rail? It looks like a beefy joint and has held up so I guess it's OK. Does the deck underside look like chopper gun or hand laid mat?

yeller
03-16-2014, 05:31 PM
in my mind bonded means chemically joined to become one, so I think it is screwed ,sealed and then bonded. the older classics had small glass tabs to hold the deck to the hull. did they drop that practice in the newer models for a "glued" deck hull joint?Matty brings up a good point. "What is bonded"? To me, bonded is fully glassed together, or an industial adhesive is used. I'm not sure if 5200 be considered "bonded"?

Oh...and Carl...I believe the footwell/front storage tub is chopper glass. At least the one I got with my new deck (in 08?) looked like it.

OFFSHORE GINGER
03-16-2014, 05:39 PM
Carl , quick mention when ever i bond a hull to the deck the gap or void between the hull and deck is filled with a putty made from Cabosil & resin with two staggered pieces of glasss 4 inches wide by two foot in length bonding the hull to the deck which in the long run will provide the boat ( hull & deck ) with more structural integrity.

OFFSHORE GINGER
03-16-2014, 05:46 PM
Carl the underside of the deck is CSM which means Chop Strand Mat which can be applied by a chopper gun or by hand .....................meaning that in the long run hopefully a Laminator ( hand layup - lol ) was there to roll out all the air if any with a laminating roller .

gcarter
03-16-2014, 05:47 PM
Mine is definately through bolted together.......something over 200 of them.
However there is RTV in the joint.....just for sealing. But notice, all the visible glass is stitched material.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=78046&d=1382751724

OFFSHORE GINGER
03-16-2014, 05:50 PM
Matty brings up a good point. "What is bonded"? To me, bonded is fully glassed together, or an industial adhesive is used. I'm not sure if 5200 be considered "bonded"?

Yeller , personally in my opinion yes bonded means glassed together .

Carl C
03-16-2014, 07:02 PM
Got it! Thanks everybody. :)

Greg Guimond
03-16-2014, 07:14 PM
Matty brings up a good point. "What is bonded"? To me, bonded is fully glassed together, or an industial adhesive is used. I'm not sure if 5200 be considered "bonded"? Oh...and Carl...I believe the footwell/front storage tub is chopper glass. At least the one I got with my new deck (in 08?) looked like it.

A lot of the west coast builders "cap" there decks. They use no rub rail at all and the joint is fully glassed inside and out ultimately becoming one and then gel'd and buffed out. Very expensive. Other boats like Team Warlock's do not add interior tabs to the deck and hull. They glassed the inside joint completely and then through bolted (not screwed) the rub rail on. Not as many bolts as Mr. Carter used, perhaps half as many.

DonziChris
03-16-2014, 08:39 PM
Carl,

This is what I would consider bonded, fully glassed

And bolted. 1985 Sutphen RR79010

Carl C
03-16-2014, 09:07 PM
OK, I see the bonded vs. sealed thing. Mine looks like it doesn't have either but no water gets in so it must be sealed somehow.

Greg Guimond
03-16-2014, 09:21 PM
Here is a Team Warlock 23 Offshore with the fully glassed deck to hull. Pretty beefy looking ...........

DOUBLE DD'S
03-17-2014, 01:15 AM
No water has ever come through the joint that I know of. Does a 4200 sealant qualify as "bonded"? Some of the hulls on OSO are glassed together.

I think they answered my question. There is a big difference between bonded and glassed and most are at least "bonded". The chopper gun glass under the deck seems surprising to some and I've never been happy with the wiring. I've posted this pic before. This is stock wiring.

Does it look like the side of the liner is chopper gunned?

http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx275/CARLC222/sloppydonziwiring-1.jpg (http://s763.photobucket.com/user/CARLC222/media/sloppydonziwiring-1.jpg.html)

all the mfr's use a chopper gun,,weather to just spray the resin out of the wet out the fiberglass or to add to the mess..on the bigger formula boats they use a 1x1 box tube about 4'' long with a 5/16 bolt going throught the center and they are spread out every 12 inch's..

MDonziM
03-17-2014, 08:07 PM
Carl, also, there are 2 sets of screws. Typically the deck and hull are screwed together with maybe 10-12" spacing and then the rub rail is screwed on also with 6-8" spacing.

gcarter
03-17-2014, 08:57 PM
On Donzi Classics, the aluminum "J" rail hole spacing is 6". The deck screw spacing was also approximately 6"+/-.......Obviously they screwed the deck together first, then applied the rail. It's logical that the patterns would intersect occasionally. I was pretty much set on the rail holes since I was re-using the old rail. I carefully marked those holes and re-drilled the deck joint holes to be evenly spaced between the rail holes. In my picture I posted above, the #10 screws are through the rail, and the 1/4" are the deck joint. Also, if you subtract the rail screws, then my joint screws would coincide w/Greg's comment.
The biggest shortcoming of the original system was the wooden strip in the hull that allowed the screws to loosen.

Carl C
03-17-2014, 09:46 PM
OK. There aren't very many screws visible. Just the ones in the pic.

MDonziM
03-19-2014, 07:54 AM
Looks to me Carl like your hull screws are visible and your rub rail screws probably do not pierce through.