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View Full Version : Donzi News. I Don't Like It!



Carl C
02-05-2014, 10:40 AM
This just popped up on another forum. I don't see them getting many new orders for the bigger boats and the Classics are now being built on the Baja assembly line. :(

http://speedonthewater.com/in-the-news/1774-donzi-and-fountain-sales-going-factory-direct

jvcobra
02-05-2014, 12:08 PM
I don't see what the problem is. They are building classics again, that is a good thing. The switch to the Baja line was for efficiency according to the article. That's understandable.

duckhunter
02-05-2014, 12:47 PM
Interesting. Factory direct sales cut out overhead and make sense for low-volume, semi-custom big boats. If they have the right guys manning the phones and interacting with customers it is a viable model. Yellowfin, Judge Yachts, DCB, etc make it work.

Building Classics on the Baja line and selling them through Baja dealers is another thing. That would seem to "dilute" the Donzi brand a little. In order to get it right they will have to differentiate them and ensure that the customer feels it is still a "premium" offering. Build quality on the first run of Classics will be critical. If a few vocal guys bought new Classics that had obvious issues it would be difficult to recover from. Also going to be tough to explain to shoppers that aren't already Donzi guys & gals why they should buy a smaller boat for more money than the Baja right next to it in the showroom. The Classic obviously offers way less creature comfort than a 25 Baja, and if they are sitting right next to each other in the same showroom for the same money the boat shopper will be hard-pressed to get his wife onboard with the 22C...

I don't know what the right answer is. Offering custom-ordered Classics at $75k and up doesn't seem practical, but marrying the Baja brand might not be the best idea either.

dsparis
02-05-2014, 01:16 PM
I can hear it now:
Earl Earl Earl (shaking head)
What now Cletus ?
You put the Proline sticker on the Fountain and the Fountain sticker on the Baja and the Baja sticker on the Donzi and the Donzi sticker on the Proline AGAIN !!!:jestera:

Fishermanjm
02-05-2014, 01:25 PM
very glad i got mine:redface:
does anyone know whats up with Donzi Direct I need to order
a couple of seats

mattyboy
02-05-2014, 01:34 PM
not really the big news deserving of their 50th, but they are still above water. the resto idea is good giving their work force more possible work to keep busy. last i looked the entry level 23 outlaw and the 22 were in the same price range so I think think the branding will be hard to keep. Donzi will never regain their former glory in the smaller high end go fast production market . sutphen seems to be doing well in the small ob market and progression superboat and tuff seem to have the 21-27 market now that pantera has stopped.

it is good news for the older classics resale should stay strong.

gcarter
02-05-2014, 01:43 PM
I don't think it matters if the Classics are built on a "small" boat line as long as the lay up schedule is followed, and all the parts go in.
Donzi's have had quality issues in the past, and not all that long ago either. I could make a list, like manyof you could, but I doubt if the right folks would read it.

Donzi Direct is still going. Sunny Lee is supposed to be filling orders.

Fishermanjm
02-05-2014, 01:47 PM
Thanks George, i wil keep tryin,,,,,

gcarter
02-05-2014, 01:53 PM
Just another note, back in the early '90's, Chris Craft sold to a person who started de-contenting the boats to lower production costs. It almost put CC out of business. I think I remember CC selling again to a new owner soon afterwards. The new "new owner" didn't honor the existing warranty issues as it was a new company. There were a lot of CC customers who had virtually worthless boats as they were breaking.
I doubt if a builder would do this in a weak economy on a product line in that price point. The builders reputation couldn't stand it.

Tidbart
02-05-2014, 01:56 PM
I don't see it as a bad thing. They are going to put an existing network of Baja dealers to work on the Classics and a dwindling, if not practically non-existent Donzi dealer line to broker new ones. In this economy, what dealer wants to carry a minimum inventory? Lot of $$ sitting there on their lot.
If/when the economy gets better, and people start spending, I am sure they will rethink their strategy.

B

duckhunter
02-05-2014, 02:38 PM
I forgot to add a big kudos to anyone willing to build boats right now, and I wish them the best of luck. Time will tell if this was the right way to go, but it's not like they had a lot of good options to choose from.

Carl C
02-05-2014, 03:44 PM
Interesting. Factory direct sales cut out overhead and make sense for low-volume, semi-custom big boats. If they have the right guys manning the phones and inBuilding Classics on the Baja line and selling them through Baja dealers is another thing. That would seem to "dilute" the Donzi brand a little. In order to get it right they will have to differentiate them and ensure that the customer feels it is still a "premium" offering. Build quality on the first run of Classics will be critical. If a few vocal guys bought new Classics that had obvious issues it would be difficult to recover from. Also going to be tough to explain to shoppers that aren't already Donzi guys & gals why they should buy a smaller boat for more money than the Baja right next to it in the showroom. The Classic obviously offers way less creature comfort than a 25 Baja, and if they are sitting right next to each other in the same showroom for the same money the boat shopper will be hard-pressed to get his wife onboard with the 22C...

Maybe that's why I have a bad feeling about this. People will say that they are made by the same company anyway so why shouldn't we go for the 24 Outlaw with it's cupholders, swim platform, ladder, ample storage space usable cabin area etc. Both will probably have the 502 catalyst engine. Both will probably be priced close. Only a real Donzi person will buy the Classic. It's not like a dealer carrying several brands from different companies. Now only the badging is different. It could be good news that they are building Classics again or it could be the death knell for Donzi or at least the Classic line. IDK. I'm concerned. . . . . . .

Just Say N20
02-05-2014, 03:50 PM
Not so concerned. How would it hurt the existing Classics if they stopped making new ones completely?

The old Classics are always going to be what they are, and have the same allure and almost cult-like following.

mattyboy
02-05-2014, 07:42 PM
both 8.2 motors the 22 is an HO the 23 outlaw is not

the 22 is priced at 113k with very limited options more standards like full hydr steering

the 23 outlaw is 5 bucks short of 100k but doesn't have many standard options so by the time you option it you are up to the 22 price

it does have a cabin porta potty and some features that might be the choice for buyers.

the 22 may make some sense to someone looking for a simple performance boat with great looks and nice options

joseph m. hahnl
02-05-2014, 09:57 PM
When you look at the gap between Classic to the ZR they are not really thinking small boats. They may pop a Classic:smash: once and a while. There :crossfing:plan is BIG boats:boat: big Fountains:lightning and big Donzis':superman:

gcarter
02-06-2014, 09:05 AM
To add to what Matty said, by the time you add tabs and some tunes, or something, it's $125 K, and then, there's the trailer......

woobs
02-07-2014, 08:35 AM
I think this is funny as it is almost what Don Aronow intended for Donzi Marine at it's inception.

He wanted to design and build prototypes then sell a license to other manufacturers/builders and have them produce the boats for the market. I think the first (and possibly only) licensee was Shepherd Boats of St.Catharines , Ontario Canada in 1965. Who knows if there would have been more as the company was sold and it's vision obviously changed.

In this light, to have Donzis built alongside other marques is perfectly natural.
78812

mattyboy
02-07-2014, 09:17 AM
I think this is funny as it is almost what Don Aronow intended for Donzi Marine at it's inception.

He wanted to design and build prototypes then sell a license to other manufacturers/builders and have them produce the boats for the market. I think the first (and possibly only) licensee was Shepherd Boats of St.Catharines , Ontario Canada in 1965. Who knows if there would have been more as the company was sold and it's vision obviously changed.

In this light, to have Donzis built alongside other marques is perfectly natural.
78812


for donzi yes i think so but he also did license or grant permission to other companies during his career as well, Glasspar had permission to pop a cig 20 and sell it as theirs it was called the Don 20. Don was a buy low sell high kinda guy

http://www.classicglasspars.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=106:1956-lido-series&catid=9:lido&Itemid=3

woobs
02-07-2014, 10:59 AM
Glasspar had permission to pop a cig 20 and sell it as theirs it was called the Don 20. http://www.classicglasspars.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=106:1956-lido-series&catid=9:lido&Itemid=3

That's really cool...
Any idea of how many were made? What's their resale like...close to the Cig 20?

I can't say I've ever seen one. Well, to be honest I wasn't looking :)
Lovin' the Cig 20 and now the G'spar Don 20 too !!!

gcarter
02-07-2014, 05:28 PM
I think this is funny as it is almost what Don Aronow intended for Donzi Marine at it's inception.

He wanted to design and build prototypes then sell a license to other manufacturers/builders and have them produce the boats for the market. I think the first (and possibly only) licensee was Shepherd Boats of St.Catharines , Ontario Canada in 1965. Who knows if there would have been more as the company was sold and it's vision obviously changed.

In this light, to have Donzis built alongside other marques is perfectly natural.
78812

Take a look at the last item in Sean's item.....
"Bob Lutz", I wonder how many folks could have that name? I'm pretty sure it's not the same "Bob Lutz".

mattyboy
02-08-2014, 09:35 AM
woobs not sure on numbers and have never seen one. just know that cigs were splashed all the time and that's why the CRT HiN is so important to cig guys

woobs
02-08-2014, 11:03 AM
I was researching them and the only one I found was for sale a few years ago.
Asking price: $4000 sans moteur. (no motor)

wwahl
02-08-2014, 05:21 PM
Take a look at the last item in Sean's item.....
"Bob Lutz", I wonder how many folks could have that name? I'm pretty sure it's not the same "Bob Lutz".

Checking here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Lutz_(businessman)
it would appear to be a different person.

Pismo
02-08-2014, 05:33 PM
Nobody will know until someone buys one and then someone else checks it out. Then we will know if it lives up quality wise.

mattyboy
02-10-2014, 03:36 PM
I don't know but this is what they may be competing against

butt fugly and much higher price range

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13920644968966&key=e83d8e151718d6413eeda6e8cd944bd5&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.offshoreonly.com%2Fforums%2Fg eneral-boating-discussion%2F308424-danalevi-powerboats-debuting-22-foot-sportboat-miami-show.html&v=1&libId=d4f88438-765c-4da9-a8e3-b29f6c290720&out=http%3A%2F%2Fspeedonthewater.com%2Fnew-boats-engines%2F1781-danalevi-powerboats-debuting-22-foot-sportboat-at-miami-show&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.offshoreonly.com%2Fforums%2Fg eneral-boating-discussion-51%2F&title=Danalevi%20Powerboats%20Debuting%2022-Foot%20Sportboat%20at%20Miami%20Show&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fspeedonthewater.com%2Fnew-boats...-at-miami-show



would be nice if they offered the new VP or Ilmor VVT small block power plants

Lenny
02-10-2014, 04:00 PM
there was also ( as Glas-Ply) an 18 Donzi splash with a higher deck. There is one down the road from my work that I spotted a few months ago for the first time, and it is original and mint ( and ugly ) but the hull is a dead giveaway. I will get a picture one day when I feel it is OK to trespass. :)

https://www.proxibid.com/AuctionImages/2593/68129/FullSize/455.jpg

mattyboy
02-13-2014, 03:09 PM
looks like Checkmate and Hustler are taking their partnership seriously and are out of the gates running

http://speedonthewater.com/new-boats-engines/1795-hustler-and-checkmate-kick-off-miami-show-with-aggressive-pricing

Greg Guimond
02-13-2014, 03:17 PM
Checkmate had good success with there 2400 model before things went down the toilet. Looks like that model is back and strong with 300XS power.

joseph m. hahnl
02-13-2014, 07:23 PM
there was also ( as Glas-Ply) an 18 Donzi splash with a higher deck. There is one down the road from my work that I spotted a few months ago for the first time, and it is original and mint ( and ugly ) but the hull is a dead giveaway. I will get a picture one day when I feel it is OK to trespass. :)

https://www.proxibid.com/AuctionImages/2593/68129/FullSize/455.jpg Looks like the deadrise is to shallow to be a 18 splash:rolleyes:


https://www.proxibid.com/AuctionImages/2593/68129/FullSize/455.jpg

mattyboy
02-18-2014, 08:47 AM
another mfg'r throws their hat into the small go fast ring with an offering that has great big water race pedigree

https://www.facebook.com/defenderpowerboats

arguements can be made that this hull may be the best small deep vee go fast design ever better than the Linder 21 challenger design

Greg Guimond
02-18-2014, 09:19 AM
That Defender is an Apache 21 legal splash. Bob S was heavily involved in the resurrection of the model which is pretty cool.

VetteLT193
02-20-2014, 09:24 AM
Curious to see pricing on it. Would be a fun boat, especially Outboard, for my area.

Greg Guimond
02-20-2014, 09:43 AM
I'm sure it would be $60k-$70k for a Defender with a 300XS. There are two Tuff 21's that are out there somewhere used for about $50k. They are $100k new and run a clean 100mph on GPS if you want the big #. On the other end there is a mint Superboat 21 with a 300 out there for $20k.

Sorry for the hijack

:hijack:

Carl C
02-20-2014, 01:00 PM
No hijack. We're just talking boats. I do feel a little better about the situation now and this is very interesting: http://www.powerboatheadquarters.com/

John C in PA
02-20-2014, 01:33 PM
Curious to see pricing on it. Would be a fun boat, especially Outboard, for my area.

Hey Vette, I found just the weedwacker for that boat :tongue:. John C

78905

mattyboy
02-20-2014, 05:02 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yge1U8EsCEk&feature=player_embedded

Moody Blu'
03-15-2014, 01:09 PM
Correct me if im wrong but isnt the classic a superior hull compared to a baja of even a longer length as far as rough water is concerned? Isnt that a selling point?

Carl C
03-15-2014, 01:36 PM
Correct me if im wrong but isnt the classic a superior hull compared to a baja of even a longer length as far as rough water is concerned? Isnt that a selling point?

Build quality has varied through the years. There is a thread right now on OSO about poor build quality of Bajas. Time will tell I guess.

Moody Blu'
03-15-2014, 05:47 PM
I'm talking about the hull itself being superior as far as handling the waves in rougher water conditions.

mattyboy
03-16-2014, 08:28 AM
the baja hull design "bottom" is very similar to the classic hull no modern technology pads steps just a deep vee.
Had a friend who had a late 1990's model 25 outlaw plain white no graphics with a 502 was a nice boat rode well .
seemed to be built well not sure where it is now he moved up to a CiG TG.

Productions boats always seem to have some quality issues be it Donzi Baja Sunsation Cobalt it is more how they stand behind it when things go wrong.

Another friend just had the hull and deck split on a early 2000's Cobalt they had it fixed under warranty even though the warranty was expired by a month or so.