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View Full Version : Anybody know how to partially block cooling water?



John C in PA
01-06-2014, 09:30 PM
The completely stock 302 HO Ford in my 16 typically runs about 125 degree water temperature. Maybe up to 140 after a long WOT run, then back to 125 degrees. I believe I can make a little more HP by increasing the water temperature toward 160 degrees or so. I can't find anybody selling a thermostat higher than 140 degrees. Any recommendation on how to raise the temperature? How about a valve of some type to regulate flow?

Thanks for any input you can offer.

John C

mattyboy
01-06-2014, 09:43 PM
try jegs

http://www.jegs.com/i/Mr.+Gasket/720/2662K/10002/-1

John C in PA
01-06-2014, 11:32 PM
I ordered a different thremostat from them (or Summit) about 2 years ago using 1992 Ford 302 as a search term and the mounting ring was MUCH larger in diameter than the indentation in the casting. The 140 degree one I bought from marineengine.com was only about 1.5" diameter vs. 1.75"-2" for a standard car t'stat that I received from Jegs. I'll call tomorrow and get them to measure the diameter.

John C

PS: I forgot to mention in my first post I HATE WINTER!!!!!

mattyboy
01-07-2014, 06:50 AM
not sure of the exact plumbing on an OMC 5.0 but with the original HM Ford Cross over my 5.0 runs at 170 with out a T-stat with a spike to 200 when coming off plane for a minute after a hard run

it runs around 160 with cooler water temps

is your t-stat housing in good shape ? mine was kind of eaten away due to salt ? I had to clean it up a bit

here's the shape gasket with the bypass


http://www.jegs.com/i/Fel-Pro/375/35440/10002/-1

Just Say N20
01-07-2014, 06:51 AM
This falls under the, "For What It's Worth" category.

Keith Eickert built my engine. I say that not to be a name dropper, but to provide credibility. One could say he has had more than a little success with his engines.

When I picked up the engine, he said I should monitor the oil temp. My engine (Volvo outdrive, so there is no water pump in it) runs a crank mounted pump drawing water from a transom mounted pick up.

It runs from the pump to a crossover tube into the front of the engine, through the block, out the T-stat housing into the headers and out the back. There is no thermostat at all. I boat in Michigan, so the water is on the cooler side. The water coming out the exhaust is never burning hot.

He told me not to push the engine until the oil temp was up to 175, and that the water temp going through the block was not important. This went against what I thought to be true, but Keith has forgotten more about engines that I will ever know.

I put about 35 hours on the engine last summer, watching the oil temp only (I switched the water temp sender to an oil temp sender, and used the same gauge which just says "temp"). I run Amsoil, and after a long WOT blast, the oil temp will rise to about 240, but then come back down to 175.

There is a 1" spacer between the Edlebrock Performer dual-plane intake, and the Holley 750 carb. After running, the spacer always has condensation on it because it is COLD.

When I circulated the DYNO sheets to some friends who understand that data, ALL were amazed at the power, torque and efficiency of the engine, so apparently running raw water without a thermostat through the engine did not hurt anything.

I don't know how applicable this is to your situation, but I thought it might shed a different perspective on your thinking.

MOP
01-07-2014, 08:12 AM
Marine engine need enough temperature to eliminate condensation build up, no way would I ever agree to running an engine without a Tstat. I have many years of hands on experience seeing the internal damage caused by cold temps. Griz brought up the same issue, he ran a closed cooling with a 180 Tstat. I ran closed cooling and a 180 in my 383 no way would I risk my investment. If anyone removes the oil fill cap and finds any trace of white muck they are running to cold!

M.O.P.

mattyboy
01-07-2014, 08:38 AM
This falls under the, "For What It's Worth" category.

Keith Eickert built my engine. I say that not to be a name dropper, but to provide credibility. One could say he has had more than a little success with his engines.

When I picked up the engine, he said I should monitor the oil temp. My engine (Volvo outdrive, so there is no water pump in it) runs a crank mounted pump drawing water from a transom mounted pick up.

It runs from the pump to a crossover tube into the front of the engine, through the block, out the T-stat housing into the headers and out the back. There is no thermostat at all. I boat in Michigan, so the water is on the cooler side. The water coming out the exhaust is never burning hot.

He told me not to push the engine until the oil temp was up to 175, and that the water temp going through the block was not important. This went against what I thought to be true, but Keith has forgotten more about engines that I will ever know.

I put about 35 hours on the engine last summer, watching the oil temp only (I switched the water temp sender to an oil temp sender, and used the same gauge which just says "temp"). I run Amsoil, and after a long WOT blast, the oil temp will rise to about 240, but then come back down to 175.

There is a 1" spacer between the Edlebrock Performer dual-plane intake, and the Holley 750 carb. After running, the spacer always has condensation on it because it is COLD.

When I circulated the DYNO sheets to some friends who understand that data, ALL were amazed at the power, torque and efficiency of the engine, so apparently running raw water without a thermostat through the engine did not hurt anything.

I don't know how applicable this is to your situation, but I thought it might shed a different perspective on your thinking.



Bill
interesting where did you tap in for the oil temp sender? no monitoring of the water temp at all?

CHACHI
01-07-2014, 10:04 AM
Bill, 240 is very good, and Mr. Eickert is correct, you should never push the stick hard unless oil is 175-180.

Ken

dsparis
01-07-2014, 11:14 AM
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-63440?seid=srese1&gclid=COvTgq267LsCFeYWMgodsBYAdg

Just Say N20
01-07-2014, 12:00 PM
Bill
interesting where did you tap in for the oil temp sender? no monitoring of the water temp at all?

Right above where the oil filter attaches, there was a plug in the block. I removed it and screwed in the sensor. I had tried it first at the remote filter location, the there wasn't enough flow by it, and it never read above 100. At the new location it reads correctly.

I don't monitor the water temp at all. When I first ran the engine I checked the temp of the headers frequently, and the temp of the exiting water. When all was cool, I figured it was working like designed.

MOP, you echo my original thinking, but I have had no issues. I changed the oil after 15 hours, and it looked fine. Again, Keith is the winningest offshore engine builder in the world, so I trust he knows what he is doing. So far, no issues at all.

John C in PA
01-07-2014, 04:19 PM
not sure of the exact plumbing on an OMC 5.0 but with the original HM Ford Cross over my 5.0 runs at 170 with out a T-stat with a spike to 200 when coming off plane for a minute after a hard run

it runs around 160 with cooler water temps

is your t-stat housing in good shape ? mine was kind of eaten away due to salt ? I had to clean it up a bit

here's the shape gasket with the bypass


http://www.jegs.com/i/Fel-Pro/375/35440/10002/-1

Matty, my t'stat is 1.5" diameter and the one from Jegs is 2.125" diameter. I spoke with Jeg's tech guy and he said the mounting ring can't be cut down to 1.5" Here is the one I removed: 78618

.
The install uses an O-ring, then a gasket. The waterflow paths are here (it blows up fairly large if you keep clicking it):

78619

I'm thinking I may try the flow restrictors that dsparis directed me to, placing one in the water pump feed hose (#22 in the picture).

BTW: it was Forrests description of what he did to his 16 that led me to examine how cold I run.

John C

John C in PA
01-07-2014, 04:32 PM
not sure of the exact plumbing on an OMC 5.0 but with the original HM Ford Cross over my 5.0 runs at 170 with out a T-stat with a spike to 200 when coming off plane for a minute after a hard run

it runs around 160 with cooler water temps

is your t-stat housing in good shape ? mine was kind of eaten away due to salt ? I had to clean it up a bit

here's the shape gasket with the bypass


http://www.jegs.com/i/Fel-Pro/375/35440/10002/-1


MarineEngine.com has been my friend. These are the correct parts for my Ford:

78620

John C in PA
01-07-2014, 05:07 PM
Another possible solution: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/krc-1027/media/images. I have a call into them now for dimensions.

John C

mattyboy
01-07-2014, 05:21 PM
John

nevermind the OMC housing is totally different from normal ford stuff. the normal ford stuff the t stat goes in with the face of the t stat vertical into the intake, yours looks to go in with the face horizontally into the housing. so it must use a different t stat.

leave it to the eggbeaters at OMC to fookup a simple ford